Grounding Rod Pounder

[James-W]

I am supposed to help the daughter of a friend of mine install a new circuit breaker panel. This is something I have never done, so I am sort of out of my league on this. The girl's husband is having the power company pull the meter on Friday morning at 9am. After we replace the old panel with the new one, we have to call the local inspector and have the new panel checked. I don't think the old panel is grounded, which is strange because it should have been grounded when the house was built. But the house is quite old so maybe that wasn't needed way back then. But in any case, we will have to ground the panel with two 8ft grounding rods in order to meet code and get the new circuit panel to pass inspection. I am thinking I will have to buy the tool to pound in the grounding rods.

My question is, what do you guys use to pound in the grounding rods? I think a rotary hammer would work, but I would need a special "pounding tool" to fit the rotary hammer and to fit on the grounding rod. What are your recommendations for this these two things?

 

[jdewitt]

What kind of soil are going into? Is it rocky? Have an extra rod on hand in case you get one stuck and need to cut it off and try again.

Look up the thread from a week ago about installing the 4(?) Ground rods in San Diego.

 

[sberry]

You can do some of the work before Friday. I shoved a couple most of the way by.hand the other day, shucked them up and down till they were in below waist hi, used a 4 pound hammer to finish. I have never used any other tool.
We read here about problem cases, not all that way.

 

[Jim greengo]

Sledge hammer and a bucket of water depending on the dirt.

 

[larry4406]

In our area we use UFER's now for new construction, but before the change we used ground rods.

Our electrician used an SDS style hammer drill (I think SDS) and the rod would fit in and bottom out in the chuck and pound it in.

 

[OccupantRJ]

We sneak it in around here by helping out someone else and that person saying they did the work, but here technically only the homeowner who lives in the home or licensed electrician can do the work. I would not be allowed to do the work if it was a rental I owned either. I guess here you have to be willing to live in a house that you wired. It does add a bit of accountability.

 

[TractorJeff]

Sledge hammer and a bucket of water depending on the dirt.

As much rain as we have had around here, he wont need a bucket of water! LOL!
My suggest is to go borrow/buy one of those "slide hammer T post drivers" at Menards, TSC or Farm/Fleet or if you are EAST of me there is the Big R store also.

 

[dogdog]

if you do it for a living , they have those ground rod drivers for the hammer drill

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-5...el-SDS-MAX-Ground-Rod-Driver-HS1924/301380083


otherwise it's just whats mentioned... a sledge and water for lube... I used a short handle one, I think it's 2lb or 5lb or was it the engineer hammer ... definitely not the long handle 10LB one...

 

[dogdog]

Since you are having this inspected... this is a good article to read...
Not sure... your area... mine, they require two grounding points, and for some odd reason, freaking inspector wants one of them connected to the incoming water line? while the rest of the country says do not connect to the water line ... who knows what he was smoking that day... but the contractors corrected the problem and he sign off...


https://www.ecmweb.com/content/bringing-grounding-down-earth

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I drive them in with a hammer (2-5 lb). I put a metal slug in a pipe ****** to protect the end.
Actually not difficult at all unless you hit rock.

 

[gungatim]

As much rain as we have had around here, he wont need a bucket of water! LOL!
My suggest is to go borrow/buy one of those "slide hammer T post drivers" at Menards, TSC or Farm/Fleet or if you are EAST of me there is the Big R store also.

that's what I used when I did mine, that and a 5 lb. hammer when it got too short for the post driver. easy peasy...

 

[Norcal]

Two rods at least 6' apart are required unless you can prove 25 Ohms of resistance or less, since the testing equipment is expensive, it is cheaper to drive a 2nd rod. A demo hammer with a ground rod driver accessory should be available at a rental yard to make the job easier, it would be wise to contact a locator service to make sure not to hit underground utilities, they do require a few days ahead of the job to do so.

 

[pattenp]

Just to be clear on what you have, does the panel that's being replaced have the first main disconnect in it or is there a separate disconnect prior to that panel? If there is a separate disconnect then that should be where the grounding electrode is connected if there is one.

Edit: My question was dumb seeing you had to pull the meter to cut power to the panel.

 

[Terry D]

I use a hammer drill for every ground rod I install. I used to stick it right in the chuck, but recently I bought a ground rod driver attachment. They make these for every style hammer drill. Once you do it this way, you will never go back beating them in by hand.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

We used to hammer them in with a basic tool similar to the pic. It was a simple pipe with a weight at the top. You slid the tool up and then either allow it to fall or assist it somewhat to drive the rod down using the inertial force. Use short strokes as you sure didn’t want your hand caught by lifting it too high. Once it was in the ground far enough you reversed the weight and used it as a drop hammer to finish the job. Couldn’t find a pic of actual tool but the pic shown is similar in shape and design just pretend it is about 4 ft long.
Should be able to rent one or for that a weight and a piece of pipe welded up and you would be in business.

 

[sberry]

I have done hundreds of these over the years, never once used a special tool. Had a couple that went harder and took a couple more minutes but there is no point in jumping to some conclusion unless you know the specifics of the soil.
Test one. Test them both. See what happens before investing in some scheme you may never need. If its all rocks then this is a different story but I bet its relatively the same there as here.

 

[nicholasbailey1993]

The last one I did I used my air hammer. I slid a socket over where the air hammer met the rod to keep everything together. Worked great

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[mike93lx]

I have done hundreds of these over the years, never once used a special tool. Had a couple that went harder and took a couple more minutes but there is no point in jumping to some conclusion unless you know the specifics of the soil.
Test one. Test them both. See what happens before investing in some scheme you may never need. If its all rocks then this is a different story but I bet its relatively the same there as here.

Won't work around here. I can't dig down 2 feet without finding a 8"+ rock. Digging a 5' diameter hole last year for a tree required breqking up a rock that probably weighed 1k lbs.

I'd buy 4 rods and definitely use a rotary hammer or jack hammer to drive them in

 

[James-W]

I have done hundreds of these over the years, never once used a special tool. Had a couple that went harder and took a couple more minutes but there is no point in jumping to some conclusion unless you know the specifics of the soil.
Test one. Test them both. See what happens before investing in some scheme you may never need. If its all rocks then this is a different story but I bet its relatively the same there as here.

I am not sure if there are any rocks where we need to put in the grounding rods, but the tend to think there isn't. That is just a guess of course, I don't really know, but I would be very much surprised if there were any large rocks there. We have had quite a bit of rain so the ground should be relatively soft and the grounding rods should go in fairly easily.

 

[James-W]

If I were to buy this tool along with one of those ground pounding rod things, would it be sufficient to do this job? I could use a rotary hammer for other things too, so it isn't like it would never get used after i do this job. I probably shouldn't say I am doing the job because I am not doing the job, the homeowners are doing it. I am simply "assisting" them in doing it, giving them an extra pair of hands so the job gets done sooner.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-in-sds-variable-speed-pro-rotary-hammer-kit-64288.html

 

[dogdog]

that drill is a sds plus, not the sds max... so just make sure you get the right driver...
It looks like it can be set to hammer only mode with the selectors... drill off, hammer on..

but

Sds Max Bores bigger holes ... just saying.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...S-Plus-Ground-Rod-Driver-48-62-6031/306319981

 

[Milton Shaw]

I bought a ground rod bit for my DeWalt spline hammer(same size as SDS Max). The only problem I had was going down the ladder as fast as the tool drove the ground rod. Boy did that thing drive fast. 8 foot is about 20 seconds or so.

 

[Farmall450]

In our area we use UFER's now for new construction, but before the change we used ground rods.

Our electrician used an SDS style hammer drill (I think SDS) and the rod would fit in and bottom out in the chuck and pound it in.

I'm sure that's good for the chuck lol. I would try to get an adapter (or make ) that has an SDS shank plus a cup, similar to the ones they sell for air hammers.

 

[Marctrees]

Reading the OP, the ground rods are the least of your problems.

Unclear from OP how much knowledge/ experience the "lead" man has.

Have the household be ready to have the power off a few days.

Ready to toss out everything in the freezer and fridge... NO AC, lot's of Cribbage by candlelight.

No computer... think "Little House on the Prairie"

Maybe a bun in the oven will come of it.


Friday is the worst day to do this, Inspectors don't work Sat, ... or Sunday.

Much work can be done BEFORE they come to kill the power...

If you do not do that, I predict you will run out of daylight and have a dead weekend.

I speak from having "upgraded" residential Service 200 + times.

Not alot, but 200+ times more than OP.

Negative ? No, realistic.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Non experienced + Friday =

 

[rlitman]

If I were to buy this tool along with one of those ground pounding rod things, would it be sufficient to do this job?...

Maybe. It depends on your ground conditions.

 

[cybrdyke]

Manual labor and water. No tools required...unless at the very end when you need to pound in the last few inches.
CD

 

[James-W]

Reading the OP, the ground rods are the least of your problems.

Unclear from OP how much knowledge/ experience the "lead" man has.

Have the household be ready to have the power off a few days.

Ready to toss out everything in the freezer and fridge... NO AC, lot's of Cribbage by candlelight.

No computer... think "Little House on the Prairie"

Maybe a bun in the oven will come of it.


Friday is the worst day to do this, Inspectors don't work Sat, ... or Sunday.

Much work can be done BEFORE they come to kill the power...

If you do not do that, I predict you will run out of daylight and have a dead weekend.

I speak from having "upgraded" residential Service 200 + times.

Not alot, but 200+ times more than OP.

Negative ? No, realistic.

Marc

What we plan on doing is to have the meter pulled at 9am on Friday. Then we will disconnect all the circuits in the main panel, there are 12 of them. Once that is done we remove the old panel and install the new one. We won't hook up any of the circuits until the panel is inspected by the local inspector. He has been called and he knows when the meter will be pulled so he said he would be ready to stop over and check it out as soon as we call him.

Once the inspector passes the new service panel, then the power company will put the meter back on and we will have power, but we can start to connect the house circuits as soon as the inspector passes the new service panel. I already told the daughter to have plans to take all the perishable food to a neighbors house should we run into difficulty. She has that taken care of so that really shouldn't pose a problem.

I have never changed a service panel but I am confident I can do it without issue. But I am concerned with the two grounding rods because I don't think they are there and we will need to ground the new service panel or the inspector won't pass the new panel. If he doesn't pass the new panel then we may not have power all weekend and that would be a major problem.

 

[Marctrees]

James - I hope you realize I was concerned for you and your friends family potential major discomfort is why I was telling you what I did.

Carry on, let us know how it goes.

Just remember... it WILL take you longer than you think.

So, do EVERYTHING possible either completed and/ or pre staged before Friday.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

It sounds like in this case you are not "upgrading the service", but just swapping in new breaker panel.

So, ...

Are you planning on replacing the load side conductors from the exist meter socket ?

Will they be long enough to connect to your new panel ? ?

It's exactly THAT type of often unforseen complication is why I'm worried about stuff like Friday, longer than you think, prestage, rotting deer in freezer, etc.

Marc

 

[brownbagg]

county wrote me up for having two rods, so i drove 19 just because of that, year later, lighting hit the oak tree 19 feet off the back porch, killed seven squirrels but never harmed the house

 

[Marctrees]

Other issues - like if you have any multiwire branch ckts (two hots sharing one neutral) you need to make SURE you hookup to BOTH hot legs and NOT to the same one.

Separate issue - If this is the "Main" disco panel, you NEED to make SURE your neutral bar is bonded to the enclosure using the Green screw that comes shipped loose w the cover screws in a baggie.

As opposed to - If it has previous to panel disconnect, wired correctly, that you leave in place, ... THEN you do NOT use the bonding screw, AND your bare grounds go on a SEPARATE and isolated from enclosure bar.

If you are not familiar with any of this this PLEASE ask here.

We just want you to do it correctly and safely.

Marc

 

[pistolpete1313]

county wrote me up for having two rods, so i drove 19 just because of that, year later, lighting hit the oak tree 19 feet off the back porch, killed seven squirrels but never harmed the house

What? Need pictures

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[sberry]

Put them in ahead of time, get it out of the way. But this is a fairly easy job in this time frame.

 

[James-W]

James - I hope you realize I was concerned for you and your friends family potential major discomfort is why I was telling you what I did.

Carry on, let us know how it goes.

Just remember... it WILL take you longer than you think.

So, do EVERYTHING possible either completed and/ or pre staged before Friday.

Marc

I know you were just being helpful and we do realize this COULD turn into a fiasco. I really don't think it will, but it is certainly possible. But we do have an alternate plan in place to save the perishable foods and other things in case it turns out bad.

I suppose maybe it shouldn't be called an upgrade, they have a 100 amp service and that will stay the same. But the service panel will be larger and it will have a lot more circuit breakers in it. That way they can get rid of the extra breaker panel.

I would like to do some of the work before Friday but everyone involved works at a job except for me so nobody is home. They are all taking Friday off so we can hopefully get this panel changed and then at least hook up the circuits for the lights and the refrigeration. The rest of the circuits we can hook up on Saturday and Sunday if need be but at least they will be able to function until we get everything connected.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Rotary Hammer FTW!

Have put ground rods in 4 different states and recently started using a rotary hammer drill and wish I'd done it sooner.

 

[egdede]

Other issues - like if you have any multiwire branch ckts (two hots sharing one neutral) you need to make SURE you hookup to BOTH hot legs and NOT to the same one...

Mr Trees has made nothing but good points. This one alone is a reason to not do the panel if you do not know what he is talking about.

In a nutshell: One white neutral wire can service 2 hot wires, one from each side of the panel On older homes, it can be harder to discern which hots and which neutral make a particular multiwire circuit.

Here is the panel problem: If you don't know which hots are multiwired to make a particular multiwire circuit, you can't have safe over-protection. Specifically, if neutral connection in a multiwire is broken, hot wires will carry 240 volts. For this reason, mutiwire hots have to be tied together so if one trips, the other does too.

I use double pole breakers when I run a multiwire circuit. Some jurisdictions allow mechanical ties between the breakers. If you trip one breaker to say, change an outlet, and the neutrals are not pig-tailed (and they won't be on an old house) you can send 240 volts down the other hot wire that isn't switched off.

If you can't accurately identify which (if any) wires are multiwired then you can't put them on a double pole breaker.

If you don't know what a 'multiwire' circuit is, I'd at least hire an electrician to label the old box and ID multiwire circuits before you start.

 

[tonyprovo723]

As much rain as we have had around here, he wont need a bucket of water! LOL!
My suggest is to go borrow/buy one of those "slide hammer T post drivers" at Menards, TSC or Farm/Fleet or if you are EAST of me there is the Big R store also.

+1 on this. Less then $25 bucks. Could likely rent one. If you have not used one, don't get carried away and lift it too high off the rod. If you do and come down you can't trash your hand bad.

I did not see any mention of a dig locate before you start. This usually has a 48-72 window before you get clearance.


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[tonyprovo723]

Two rods at least 6' apart are required unless you can prove 25 Ohms of resistance or less, since the testing equipment is expensive, it is cheaper to drive a 2nd rod. A demo hammer with a ground rod driver accessory should be available at a rental yard to make the job easier, it would be wise to contact a locator service to make sure not to hit underground utilities, they do require a few days ahead of the job to do so.

I've tried to find these at rental yards with mixed results. Sometimes you a sharp guy working the counter and gives you a stake driver for driving commercial tent stakes or a post driver attachment.

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[sberry]

Extra hands are good thing. It does help. Don't worry about the rods or tools, this is a problem you can solve. Go over after they get off work and test a rod,, really do u t this is a problem and lots of worry over nothing. Been done this 40 years and never used a power tool. Never. Be different if you were doing 40 a week. Here I don't even need to use water. Never spent more than 5 minutes. You can slide the clamp over it first if it looks like it will take much hammering.
What takes time is new work, cutting holes for mast if overhead, design and mount new panels and base etc. Replacement can be easier.
I don't do them every day but my design skills are good, have done new next to old, have had power down for as little as 10 minutes. This often done when relocating service, often going from overhead to underground. Had new inspected, heated new from old and old from new on occasion. Lots of ways to do this.