grounding

[Karl Fields]

School me, please!
My new service is about 625' from the house. I put the required ground rod and ground wire in at the service area. Since this is quite a distance($$), can I omit the ground wire in the underground conduit and simply put another ground rod and wire in at the house panel? Done this way, I would assume the I would bond neutral/ground at hte house panel. is there a reason to actually run the ground wire between meter ground and house panel?

 

[kd3pc]

It will be up to the AHJ, but usually the answer is NO....the power company can do what they want, but you as the homeowner, can not.

In the grand scheme of things, the price of the ground is not that much.

 

[Mustang51js]

You would need it because your house would be a sub panel. Unless you put just the meter where your service is now and the panel at the house with nothing else by meter

 

[theoldwizard1]

My new service is about 625' from the house.

That is where the meter is at ???

I would have guessed that the POCO would want to run a higher voltage power line a lot closer to your building and then install a transformer

 

[Zeke]

Seems to be some confusion here. Meters are not often over 600 feet away, are they?

But if that's the case, then the ground wire needs to be there from what I know. If there's a ground fault you don't want stray electricity between the house and the meter. An open neutral will do that.

 

[Wirepuller]

If there is only a meter mounted on a pedestal without a bypass or means of disconnect you don't need a ground. If it is a meter with a breaker, or disconnect you need a ground.

 

[jd_1138]

Better to be safe than sorry. I picked up this book at a yard sale for a dime. Sure is interesting and good info.. In the book, it always says check with your local inspector if you're unsure.

 

[dw1]

You have already got some good info, but did you set the meterbase (a while back) and are now getting power to house, I am surprised the power co. will let you go that far! did you do a load calc and figure voltage drop. That is more than double the length we could go around here on a smaller load calc. with our power co.
If you have a disconnect switch under your meterbase as Mustang said, the panel in your house turns into a sub panel and you need 4 wires to it.
What abouts are you located? Might want to discuss this with the power co. again.

 

[Aceman]

Karl, it depends on what code cycle you're under and whether you have local/state amendments to the code.

The simplest way would be to call and talk to the person who would be inspecting this project.

 

[Karl Fields]

Of course I need to supply more info. Story of my life
The meter is attached to a main panel. The main panel is halfway between the house and the barn, both of which need power.

 

[dw1]

I would see if you can get the power company to come out and take a look again. Let them assess the job, see what they recommend and see what they would do for free and for cost? I realize all power companies are not the same, around here they will not let you go over 300' for a residential service and that's providing it meets all their criteria. I put a 400 amp (320 meter/main combo, it has a meterbase ( 1 meter) and 2 - 200 amp breakers in the enclosure ) I ran a 200 amp service into the house and a 200 amp service into the barn. Now I did have to run about 420'- 2 1/2" PVC pipe for the power company, they then came back and pulled the 7200 volt primary line in and set a transformer, I had my equipment about 20' away. This was our best scenario. This is just and option you can explore!
Good Luck

 

[LXCam]

Yes you need a ground. This is the perfect storm scenario and why NEC requires a ground for all circuits down stream of the meter/main. At your meter service the ground and neutral are bonded together. If you were to only run the neutral conductor and add the second ground rod and bond there as well you have effectively created a differential ground path. It's situations like this that get people killed and create electrical trouble shooting issues. That's the short answer, sorry since I'm on a phone, going deeper just ain't happening.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The meter is attached to a main panel. The main panel is halfway between the house and the barn, both of which need power.

I put the required ground rod and ground wire in at the service area. [I assume this is the halfway point between the house and barn.] Since this is quite a distance($$), can I omit the ground wire in the underground conduit and simply put another ground rod and wire in at the house panel?

The short answer is no.

4 wires from the "main" panel to each building.

 

[Stuff]

On the off chance that you are using metal conduit then that acts as the grounding conductor.

 

[Wirepuller]

Of course I need to supply more info. Story of my life
The meter is attached to a main panel. The main panel is halfway between the house and the barn, both of which need power.

Short answer is; From the transformer tap or the underground from the street, no grounding conductor is needed until the service lateral hits a means of disconnect. That becomes your building main. From there on out you need a grounding conductor and everything is treated as a sub panel. There is way more to it but this sums it up in this case.

 

[sberry]

My Bud has a mobile home with an old power pole between 2 buildings that is falling down. There is a jump pole over the road to his property and I said,,, now install a new underground from that pole to a convenient spot and I am going to force him to change out panels in the home and in the garage in the process. There are a couple minor issues but the place has grounded wiring and each building will get 4 wire from a service panel to a new panel installed beside the old fuse boxes that were left overs and were designed for service entrance, etc. A mobile needs an outside disconnect and this will all facilitate future use for home building on this lot, well is on the garage.
In some sense there is incentive to but the service close to the jump pole which is where the footage for install charge would originate but this install will pay for itself by re designing the location, the poco will love it. The poco will bring 3 wires to the meter which goes to our main with breaker spaces which leave it via 4 wire to service to each detatched structure.

 

[ishiboo]

Not long ago, it was acceptable to run 3-wire service between them. It is no longer. I would not hesitate to run 3-wire if it was a substantial savings, I don't personally believe there is a substantial safety improvement in practice, if any... but for the small amount it would cost, I'd run it to be in compliance.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not long ago, it was acceptable to run 3-wire service between them. It is no longer.

Yeah, you have to wonder ! I hear the "next" NEC will require child proof/"safety" outlets in all residential applications ! Ridiculous !!

I still have an 8 socket fuse panel in my house (all are populated with 15A screw in breakers). If I every upgrade the wiring to the garage that fuse box will be replaced, but not until then !!

The only really "good" thing I know of, from recent NEC changes in the past 10 years or so is an approved nonmetallic cable splice that can be "buried" in a wall. (NEC compliant - article 334-40b, 2005 & 2008 - UL and CSA listed)

There is also a "tap" version.

 

[kd3pc]

child proof, idiot proof, and safety outlets are already required by the AHJ in many states/localities.

Even where we live in TN, where the electrical permits are still issued by the local hardware store, these are required.

 

[sberry]

There is a lot of old obsolete junk gets phased out from code upgrades. I feel a little differently about it all as I age a little and one can see that some of it is by minds greater than my own. I see the point of UL listing, some stuff is included that wouldn't even have occurred to us.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

School me, please!
My new service is about 625' from the house. I put the required ground rod and ground wire in at the service area. Since this is quite a distance($$), can I omit the ground wire in the underground conduit and simply put another ground rod and wire in at the house panel? Done this way, I would assume the I would bond neutral/ground at hte house panel. is there a reason to actually run the ground wire between meter ground and house panel?

Classic confusion between EGCs and grounding electrodes. 2 different animals. One does NOT take the place of the other!

Pre 2008 code allowed 3-wire feeds. If this is new and since u have a disconnect at the meter then the feed to anything from the meter HAS TO BE 4-wire! U will need ground rods at BOTH locations! The panel(s) at your house are subpanels and should have an isolated neutral bar IF ITS A 4-WIRE FEED!

Also, as others have mentioned 625' is way to far for a secondary service feed. What size service is this? I would have the PoCo bring a primary line closer to the house and set a pad mount transformer!