Hammer and dolly

[T56 Impala]

I am a complete noob to metal work. Can some one point me in the right direction on repairing metal? I have an old tool box that I wish to "restore". It needs a lot of "adjustments". It opens and closes well enough, but is dented on every side.

I have a cheap set of body hammers and dollys. They should do the job just fine as I am not looking for perfect results. Should I start in the worst area first? Start at the bottom and work up? Down? to the side?

 

[nonhog]

I am no bodyman but what little I have learned you reverse the dent
Meaning dont start at the deepest part of the dent . work into it .
Imagine how the dents happened and reverse the process.
If a dart board is dented right in the middle you would start not on the bullseye but outward of it and slowly work it back.
Hope that makes sense. bodymen feel free to correct me .

 

[T56 Impala]

I never thought of it, but that is good advise I think! It seems to make sense anyway.

What do the different shaped hammer heads do? (Is this far too complex to discuss on an Internet forum?)

 

[KustomZ]

I am no bodyman but what little I have learned you reverse the dent
Meaning dont start at the deepest part of the dent . work into it .
Imagine how the dents happened and reverse the process.
If a dart board is dented right in the middle you would start not on the bullseye but outward of it and slowly work it back.
Hope that makes sense. bodymen feel free to correct me .

Couldn't have said it better. Thats the way I work them out!

 

[senlow]

I am no bodyman but what little I have learned you reverse the dent
Meaning dont start at the deepest part of the dent . work into it .
Imagine how the dents happened and reverse the process.
If a dart board is dented right in the middle you would start not on the bullseye but outward of it and slowly work it back.
Hope that makes sense. bodymen feel free to correct me .

That is a perfect description. A good book on this subject is "The Key to Metal Bumping" by Frank T. Sargent.

 

[goodfellow]

Excellent description -- also, for most work the dolly isn't really meant to be used as an anvil upon which to hammer metal directly. A light touch and "off dolly" work will yield better results. Push the concave metal with the dolly from the back, and hammer the convex (bulges) with the hammer from the front.

 

[e-tek]

Often, once you've worked from the edges toward the middle (as correctly described above), you'll find you can't get any more of the dent out. At some point you'll be hammering harder with less results. This is when you know the metal is stretched! Here's where you can either do it right and "shrink" the metal wth an Oxy-acetylene torch - or fill it with bondo! As far as off and on dolly work is concerned, Off-dolly is where you push out the low and tap down the high spots, attempting to move the metal. On-dolly work is for smaller dimples that need a slight stretch and force to flatten the area.
The different hammers edge-shapes are much like the dolly shapes and are meant to get into different shapes in the metal (e.g. a wedge is for fender or hood edges, a square is for up against right-angle bends, etc) whereas face-shapes are for different concaves or convexes of surfaces (large faced hammers). Hope that helps.

 

[toadjammer]

And the Metal can also be shrunk with a shrinking disc as suggested by someone here. I haven't bought one yet but intend to give it a try.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...64008474&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&viewitem=

 

[VDubJoe]

Go look at Ron Covell's site and themeatalmeet forum. Lots of stuff.

Joe

 

[T56 Impala]

Thanks for the info. Going to buy a book today and read up. Seriously, this is simply for an old tool box that I want to fix up for old times sake. I leave real metal work to pros!

 

[nonhog]

Thanks for the info. Going to buy a book today and read up. Seriously, this is simply for an old tool box that I want to fix up for old times sake. I leave real metal work to pros!

Before, during and after pictures of course !
One other thing you may want to consider , pratice on something you don't care about 1st ?

 

[T56 Impala]

Here is the old box I am working on. Exposed to the elements for about 4 decades and countless travels around the globe. As you can see (sorry for my poor photographic skills) the bottom of the box is in pretty good shape. Both sides of the top are pushed in and you really have to twist it to get it to close. The inside is beat up too. It has two trays, the top ones have a lid, and they are bent up pretty badly too.

So far I have Removed the trays from the latch side and straightened them the best I could. I have also worked on the latch side lid. Your advice has worked great! I started in the angled area and worked out in a circle. Its amazing how much of the "dent" popped out of the center after only working about 1/2" of the perimeter! I worked my way to the center and the lid, on this side, closes great. Without painting or even sanding, its hard to tell just how smooth it is. I'm not looking for perfection though. I am happy with the way it is right now.

I am going to de-rust it, somehow. EOR, Sanding and brushing I guess. Then prime it. The inside will be painted with a semi gloss black Rustoleum. The outside will be done with the Rustoleum Hammer coat in black.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Soda blast it. There is someone on the north side of ATL that does that. I had his card, cannot find it right now. He usually has a spot at the swap meet at Lanier Speedway.

Charles

 

[ddrewyor]

If the dent has not creased the metal you can use a couple of different methods to get the dent out.
Apply dry ice to the center of the dent and then remove after 5 -10 seconds. The center will contract and pop the dent out within a couple of minutes. Depending on the dent it may take a few times. Good for paintless dent repair. WEAR GLOVES when handling dry ice.
Get a heat gun and a can of compressed carbon dioxide (Dustoff?). Heat the dented area for about 30 seconds. Take the can and use upside down so you get liquid coming out of the nozzle and spray the dent for about 10 -12 seconds. Have a beer while the dent pops out. Wait for the ice to disappear and then do it again if it is not gone.
Use the dollies behind the dent and hammer from the front and stretch the metal from the outside of the dent in. Once it's as best as you can get it, use the "pick" side of the hammer to put small dimples in the metal. This is done with the dolly behind the metal also. Then use a shrinking wheel on a grinder to heat the metal and the "memory" in the metal will pop it back into form. A regular flexible grinding disk 80 grit (not a stff wheel) can be used with decent results also. The dimples heat up fast and cause the metal to pop but are not always necessary. This method works well if there is a crease in the metal. The other two methods not so well on creases. Good luck and lets see some pictures!

Dave
________
MIYOSHI PLANT (MAZDA) PICTURE

 

[mkdive]

All good sounding tricks I'll have to remember!

 

[T56 Impala]

Well, I have to say I have impressed myself. I will post up some pictures tomorrow. It didn't take as long as I thought it would. I'm sure some of you would go even farther with making it perfect, but I like the character of the hammer marks and imperfections. I don't think the top has closed like this in 50 years!

Now, if I can just get it blasted and painted I can put my new rivet tool to work and put it back together. I really can't wait. I do have a couple of finishing questions.

If I use the hammer finish on it what would happen if I did a light coat of "Army" green over it? Will the "hammered" look still show through?

 

[brent5631]

Join this site and you could spend days reading about all the cool techniques and tools for metalworking.
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php

 

[T56 Impala]

I have one more question. Don't throw me under the bus, okay?

HF has a small blast cabinet. its is not 42202-7VGA that they have on their web site. It is a smaller one that is bench mounted. Would it or the 42202, be worth while for me to buy? The smaller on is MUCH better built than the 42202. All I would be using it for would be this box, well parts of this box since it wont fit in either one of these, and misc. old wrenches. My compressor could handle it on a limited basis. (The cabinets requirements and the max output of my compressor are pretty close.)

So, would it be a worth while investment?

EDIT....

Northern tools sells the same small one as HF. it is model 41389. The HF one is painted red and this one is black.

 

[e-tek]

As you know, as soon as you get it it'll be too small!! Unless you REALLY know you'll never need anything bigger, then I'd recommend the standup version. They aren't much more and you can get the entire tool chest in there - as well as wheels, intakes and old cremery jugs!

 

[stricht8]

Yeah, metalmeet.com rules. I learned an incredible amount from it.

Join this site and you could spend days reading about all the cool techniques and tools for metalworking.
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php

 

[Bad78Cutlass]

We do Body/Paint and also metal work. Only advice is to take your time and hit the metal easily and just don't go wacking at it.

 

[T56 Impala]

Well, I have disassembled the box. My camera was killed in a skiing/snowboarding accident last week (along with me breaking 2 toes on my right foot!) so I don't have any pictures. Some blasting, priming and painting has taken place to the interior compartments. So far, so good! I found the "correct" colour paint. It is made my Testors and is used in model building. I hope it stands up to this task.

FWIW, after age 40 is NOT a good time to take up snowboarding!!! Just a small public service announcement.

 

[Vernmotor]

LOL thanks for that tip !!!

 

[e-tek]

FWIW, after age 40 is NOT a good time to take up snowboarding!!! Just a small public service announcement.

Uhhh, ya - I tried to take it up at 30 and it was STILL too late!!! I recall being "prepared" though - Mrs E-tek and I bought padded hockey pants, knee and elbow pads and helmets and even took lessons. Of course later that day, with my confidence on the Bunny Hill soaring, I thought: next up: the chair lift!!!
Short story: last run, legs tired, very fast, a little ice and WHAM!!!! My head must've hit the ice like a tennis ball in a long sock whacked against the road....I can still feel it too.

 

[T56 Impala]

Thank God I was wearing a helmet! I was in class to learn this "sport". First day was good. I took a few spills (I have trouble digging in the toe edge) and my shoulders are still hurting from those.

The second day I was back in class. I felt good. Cocky actually. Then, while at a pretty fast speed, coming over a slight rise, I hooked the toe edge again. According to the instructor, I did two complete flips and 1/2 twist in the air. He claims I nearly landed on my board right side up! I actually landed toes first in the snow which whipped my back and head into the mountain. (Remember, I have broken my back twice in my short life time....)

It took me a minute to get up from that. I did manage to continue to the bottom of the slope. I didn't notice any pain at that time. I got onto the lift and when I tried to get off I noticed the pain. A LOT of pain when I pushed off with my back foot.

Anyway, I rode the gondola down the mountain and went to the ER. A few hours and a few X-rays later they told me I had broken 2 toes. They suggested I stay off of it for a week or so (right....) and that there wasn't really any thing they could do for it as far as splinting. I walked off the pain and the bruising is gone. It still hurts a little and is still a bit swollen.

Ah, life's little bumps........ you just gotta learn to roll with them! I WILL be trying this again next year......I know, I never learn!