Hammer drill not vibrating drill

[alan camby]

I have used several different types of hammer drills, and i want a hammer drill not a vibrating drill

Every time I have used a SDS chucked hammer drill the drill seems to work just fine. I hold onto the drill and it does the work.

I have also used hammer drills that have a drill chuck like the ones found on a regular drill (i will call these drill chucks). These seem to be great at vibrating your hand numb in about 10 seconds and can become quite painful if used for several minutes. Not only that, but good luck getting a hole drilled in concrete. These might work fine for 1/4" holes in cinder block. I call these vibrating drills not hammer drills.

Is there something different internally inside of the sds drill that makes it better. Or is it just the chuck allows the bit to move up and down inside of the chuck??? Like i just said, seems like there is something different internally. Does one have a Hammer inside? I saw inside a very cheap Hammer Drill once. It had two washers with ramps that climbed each other. This was a vibrating drill

Are there any drill chuck style drills that perform like a SDS drill??? Just curious on this as i really want a SDS drill

And my main question. what is the cheapest SDS drill I can buy that will work, do some just vibrate??
I saw a Bosch at Home Depot that was $199 and one for around $260. Both were shaped like a very large hand drill. I know you get what you pay for but this is a home use only drill and i don't need a $700 drill. Just something that works, not vibrates your teeth out.

I need something that will drill 1/2" holes in concrete. Would like to be able to drill a 4" deep hole in about 45 seconds.

The drill I have now is a Dewalt DW505K and it is a joke. It has the drill chuck and is useless for 1/2" holes. It is a $99 drill, and it is new.

Any ideas for me? Also very curious on the difference between my self named "vibrating drills" and hammer drills that work.

Thanks

 

[honcho]

I have both styles of drill (SDS and regular drill chuck) from Bosch and an older spline bit milwaukee hammer drill. Based on my experience, you're going to need a bigger SDS drill with quality bits to make 1/2 inch holes in 45 seconds in hard, aggregate filled concrete. My son has my Bosch SDS drill right now or I'd look up the model number. It is one of the lower end Bosch units, purchased at Lowes several years ago. It works great but it's infrequently used and has been passed among friends and family members with no complaints other that for casual use, quality bits, especially the larger sizes, are expensive.

I have one spline bit for the milwaukee (bought the drill with bit at a yard sale for $5) so I can"t attest to its usefulness. I did see that you can buy adapters to use SDS bits on spline drills which would greatly enhance the utility of older spline hammer drills. The adapters sell for around $40 but you might be able to pick up an older spline hammer drill for a song.

By the way, I was in Home Depot the other day and they had Hilti SDS bits marked down. No real bargain, but made in Germany and about 20 percent off the regular price.

 

[demographic]

After the first time I used a SDS drill after years of using a rotary percussion drill I bought an SDS drill.

That was the last time I used a rotary percussion drill other than on a cordless combi drill and doing just one or two holes.

SDS all the way nowadays, those who stick with rotary percussion obviously haven't tried an SDS. Its a night and day difference.

In my experience Bosch SDS drills have a slow impact rate and even my old Makita (that I gave to a mate) managed two holes to one that the Bosch managed. My Hitachi was even faster.

Its possible that Bosch has upped its speed but as far as I'm concerned Bosch manages to make some good tools, drills aren't amongst them.

If an SDS drill can't manage an eight inch deep hole with a half inch bit in a lot less than 45 seconds then take it back, its broken.

 

[rlitman]

SDS drills are rated by their capacity for drilling a solid hole by diameter.
For example, my Bosch is rated 1 1/8" in concrete. The largest twist style bit I have for it is 3/4" though. As you approach the maximum capacity, thing start to slow down.
I've drilled 1 1/2" holes through a 10" thick poured foundation in about 2 minutes using a core bit. I should be able to drill your 4" deep 1/2" hole in well under 10 seconds. The "bulldog" style SDS drills should be more than capable of your needs (but have a 7/8" capacity).

As for a chuck vs SDS. They are totally different.

In a hammer drill, there is a mechanism that allows the chuck to float a little axially, and a plate behind the chuck that kicks it forward usually twice each rotation. It's kind of similar to the way a child proof pill bottle cap works. There is no "hammering" action. It does move up and back, but half of the hammering is spent on you. Also, with the weight of the chuck floating with the bit, a lot of energy is lost.

With SDS, the bit floats up and back in the chuck (it actually needs to be greased a little). The chuck only serves to rotate and contain the bit. The bit is hit from the rear by a pneumatic hammer. The impact on the bit is actually the same as how air chisel works, except that the drill keeps the bit turning, so as to use the flutes to remove the dust from the hole. This is why the hammering goes into the bit, and not into your hand, and why it works so well.
This is also why an SDS drill is called a "rotary hammer", and not a "hammer drill".

 

[djjsr]

A rotary hammer will do the job. I got one from Harbor Freight a few years ago and it works GREAT. I thought it would go up in smoke but after a few years and dozens of holes, it still works as well as one costing much more.

 

[PatDig]

I have the Bosch 'Bull Dog' and it works great. Once you use it you will never go back to a hammer drill, plus you can use chisel style bits as well.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

The "bulldog" style SDS drills should be more than capable of your needs (but have a 7/8" capacity).

Close...You can get "Bulldogs" from 7/8 thru 1-1/8" Capacity...I've got a 1" Bulldog Xtreme myself.. I think Bulldog is a term for the "Long Style" Bosch Rotary Hammer...
ANY of the Bulldogs would be a solid bet.

 

[rlitman]

Yes, I believe that the ones with the motor inline with the chuck are the bulldog models. I didn't realize they went that big.
I myself have the next size up (Bosch 11236VS), and am very happy with it.

I will mention though, that the manual briefly mentions a break in period with these. It doesn't stress enough that you really want to run the drill on hammer for about an hour, during which time it may even smoke a little. Don't sweat it.
The hammer is packed with grease, and the piston is kind of tight out of the factory. It needs to be run enough to heat up the grease to get it to loosen, and allow the piston to properly seat. As the grease heats up and it breaks in, it will hammer better and better.

One comment about the Harbor Freight model:
I'm sure it is plenty capable (and lots of people are happy with them), but the Bosch (and other quality brands such as Hilti) SDS drills include a nice safety feature that the Chinese ones do not. They have a rotation clutch that allows the chuck to spin on the shaft if the bit gets jammed up.
Since the SDS chuck will not slip on a bit like a Jacobs chuck, if the bit gets stuck with a Chinese drill, the drill may want to rip your wrists off.

BTW, they make chipping and pointed bits that make it look like you can use an SDS/SDS+ drill as a jackhammer. Forget it. That's the best way to ruin the chuck. That is a job for SDS-Max, which is a larger size (and isn't made to drill 1/2" holes).
I've seen them used with the wide chisels to remove tiles though.

Remember to always clean the bit when you take it out of the chuck, and put a little clean grease on the end that goes in the chuck each time you use it.

 

[bcradio]

This bunch must not do a lot of drilling it sounds like. Both tools are useful, but both do different things. You can use a ratchet as a hammer, but its not the right tool for the job.

When you get your rotary hammer drill, go try and drill some stone or brick with it and let me know how it goes. Of course I know how it will go (it'll chip it all to death). So in short, it depends on what you are drilling. For concrete get the rotary hammer.

 

[rlitman]

I use my SDS all the time on brick. Yes, the extra impact of SDS can blow out the backside of what you're drilling in many cases. This gets worse as the hole size gets larger. It isn't an issue for blind holes, but it can do real damage to cinder block.

You can drill most of the way through, and then switch to rotation only for the last bit.
In my opinion, rotation only isn't much slower than the hammer action my cordless provides (both are painfully slow compared to SDS).

 

[1SlowFormula]

wow, I cannot believe I have never heard of an SDS hammer drill. I was a laborer in a concrete company many years back and we used some pretty beefy hammer drills and when I got a hammer drill for the house it didn't work well and just vibrated me more than going into the concrete, now I know why, lol...

I saw this after a quick search on sds hammer drills,

 

[Monte]

cutaway video of a "percussion drill" a.k.a. "impact drill" a.k.a. "hammer drill" a.k.a. "vibrating drill"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GL9wazvPHEs?list=PLE7E83D203BAFE3F2&hl=de_DE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


cutaway video of a "rotary hammer drill"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ui83dwv2vzc?list=PLE7E83D203BAFE3F2&hl=de_DE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

cutaway video of a "percussion drill" a.k.a. "impact drill" a.k.a. "hammer drill" a.k.a. "vibrating drill"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GL9wazvPHEs?list=PLE7E83D203BAFE3F2&hl=de_DE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


cutaway video of a "rotary hammer drill"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ui83dwv2vzc?list=PLE7E83D203BAFE3F2&hl=de_DE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've got a hammer drill and a rotary hammer drill. What I really want is a tool body eraser that they use in these videos.

 

[Danglerb]

Lot of people seem very happy with both the SDS drills from HF, $80 and $140 I think when on sale, just buy a good bit and make holes cheaper than renting a Bosch.

 

[alan camby]

Thanks everyone for the help. I appreciate all the information on how these machines work.
I will probably go with this drill.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002246T/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Seems to be a good one for the price. If anyone has more input on this model or a comparably priced model, please post.

My last job had two large Bosch SDS hammer drills. We used them daily for years and they were bulletproof. Bosch might not be the best but i have had good luck with them.