Hammering on a vise/anvil

[JimmyTheMonkey]

I have been searching and looking around and I can't really figure out the answer I need. I know that certain vises have integrated anvils and that hammering on a vise without an anvil is basically a cardinal sin.

What I am curious about is what kind of prohibited "hammering" are people talking about? Do people mean hammering in the blacksmith sense where people are creating tool and shaping serious pieces of metal? I don't ever see myself doing that.

I can imagine, however, the need to knock a slightly bent piece of metal back into shape or hammering a piece of metal to make it fit into another piece of metal. This might require a vise to make sure the item doesn't fly across the room when you hit it. All of this contemplated hammering would involve a rubber mallet, I imagine.

Is this the kind of prohibited activity everyone is talking about? I noticed that vise anvils are usually integrated on the back of the vise, so it makes me believe the hammering people are referring to is the former category. Using the clamps to secure an object while I knock it back into place might be different?

Am I going crazy here? I have never owned a nice vise before, so I am still trying to learn!

 

[jakemac]

The anvil on a vice isn't built for hammering swords into plowshares. It's intended for light duty work. Bending/straightening a nail, flattening soft metals, etc. If you need to do heavy work, you will need a proper anvil. If you need to wail away at a piece to shape it, the vice anvil is not the way to go, but for shaping small rod and sheet it will work fine.

Don't whack it with a metal hammer, that is how you get divots in the face. Hitting hardened steel on it will do the same thing. Some light duty cast anvils may crack from the shock of being hit even if the anvil is hardened steel (especially when cold). Stick with softer metals and medium blows until you get a feel for the hardness of you vise's anvil.

 

[ritzblitz]

I think what you aim to do is absolutely fine. As long as you aren't wailing on the vise with a massive hammer, you won't really do it much harm. I hammer stuff a lot like bending prices if metal like you refer to.

 

[rsanter]

If the vise I am using can't handle me hammering on it....I need a different vise
Making brackets
Straightening things
Clamping things
Knocking things together and apart
Etc
I know my vises may look a little beat up but they get work done for me

Bob

 

[lametec]

When I bought my vise years ago, the first thing I did after mounting it was hit the anvil area as hard as I could with a hammer. I figured if it was going to break, I might as well get it over with right away while I can still return it.

It's still in one piece, but with a divot in the anvil part from that first hit.

 

[Tbabble]

Nothing wrong with using the anvil on the vise, just know there is always a chance of it cracking. If you want something that can take a beating, a piece of railroad track works wonders or even a simple piece of "drop" plate or solid stick works You can make a stand or just put on your bench. If you want some idea's I've got a few links I could share.

 

[Davefr]

Tapping a piece of metal on the vise's anvil is what it's made for.

However if you're beating on it with all your might then you're using the wrong tool for the job.

I'd be much more cautious using the anvil on a machinists vise then a mechanics vise. I view a machinist vise as a precision tool. Some vise's don't even have much of an anvil so you should be even more careful.

All it takes is looking at the 100's of images that get posted here showing fatally wounded vises and you'll be more cautious.

 

[TwoInch]

i beat the hell out of my vise, and the anvil on the back of it. i dont do huge shaping projects on it, but i have no qualms with smacking something on it pretty hard. i will and do hit things on it with ball peens and 2lb sledges, but usually try to stick with the copper or brass hammers

i smash the hell out of things when they are clamped in the jaws too, but my vise is not a beautiful old american or english vise, just a 6" chunk of unknown COO steel. with the stuff its been through, i have no worries that it will break from what i put it through.

 

[JimmyTheMonkey]

Good to know! For example, lets look at these two Yost vises: Yost 865-DI and the Yost 45C/55C. Both are made in the USA and strongly constructed. According to the Yost rep I spoke with, the 45C is stronger in clamping force than the 865-DI.

It looks like the 45C might be the Machinest style that is not meant to be hammered on it any way? The Yost website describes the 45C as having a "large anvil." (http://www.yostvises.com/4-1-2-tradesman-combination-pipe-and-bench-vise-swivel-base.html). The 865-DI appears to have two series anvils for use. Would both vises be appropriate for my above discussed uses? I don't see any anvil on the 45C that I would consider a large anvil. What am I missing?

 

[Filson]

I don't see any anvil on the 45C that I would consider a large anvil. What am I missing?

Element of salesmanship. Don't get me wrong - I own a Yost 32C and I like it a lot. It has the same type of "large anvil" on the back of it - though I wouldn't use it for anything but relatively light work.

Keep this in mind - as a manufacturer of vises, your trying to put out products that will take care of the needs of as many customers as possible. By adding an "anvil" onto the back of a vise (where a lot of people will hammer stuff regardless if there is an anvil there or not) they make a piece of equipment that seems more versatile for your shop.

As a consumer in this case - you need to try and decide if those features are actually built into the piece of equipment for function, or are they there more for show and getting more sales. Yost makes excellent vises and I wouldn't hesitate to use it's anvil for light work.

Where hammering becomes a no-no is when your clamping stuff into your vise and then hammering on it in such a fashion that it puts a lot of strain onto the vise faces and their support. In the below pic of my Yost 32C you can see the small lip that the faces "sit" on. You'll see a lot of used vises with those lips chipped off. Sending shock waves down into them while hammering is a big culprit of this. The vise isn't intended to be used in this way.

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Having said that - I will also say that I picked up a heavily used, large old vise that I will be using for this exact purpose. It's stout, it's old-school American made, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. If I break it using it in this fashion - well, I will unfortunately have put an old work horse to rest, but at least it'll have saved my primary vise. Using it in this fashion is a no-no, but hey - it's my vise and that's why I bought it.

Going back to what I said a bit earlier - you need to use your judgement to decide if the built in features of a vise are for actual function or more of a marketing ploy. This china-made craftsman vise with the "anvil" on the back I couldn't imagine using for anything more than straightening out a nail or something.

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The way the anvil hangs over the body of the vise makes me assume it'll chip off fairly easily. The metal of the entire vise is obviously cheap and not very strong. Just use your best judgement. I picked up both the craftsman vise and the small anvil it's sitting on for $5 each at an estate sale.

If you plan to do anything but pretty light hammering on your primary vise - consider picking up a small anvil that's more intended for this use, or even a short length of rail track. Or if hammering on stuff while it's clamped down by your vise is something you want to do - find an old, stout one that's seen better days, that you wont cry over if you end up breaking it.

Keep your eyes open - there's a lot of great deals out there, below are my biggest 3 vises - My Reed No 933 in the front, Yost 32C and late-model Parker in the back. I paid under $140 for all three combined. I'd hate to see a post later down the road of your new Yost you just bought getting broke by beating the piss out of it.

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In my opinion - no matter what kind of "anvil" is on a vise - it's still a vise. If you want to hammer the hell out of something, get the right tool for the job and pick yourself up an anvil of some form. Or if you need to clamp something down before you try to persuade it into shape - find yourself a heavily used vise as I said before. Hope this helps.

-Bill

 

[JimmyTheMonkey]

Bill (and everyone else),

Thanks for the extensive advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to thoroughly explain things. Reading "DONT HAMMER" in old threads is surprisingly unhelpful for the novice. Like many DIYers here, I learn better when I understand why.

Whatever vise I buy, I will make sure to treat it with the respect its price deserves!

 

[coolreed]

I am not a fan of hard hammering on anything. If you are, you are probably not thinking the problem through very well and need to step back and re think. I agree with an earlier comment that Vise Anvils are intended for light duty use and if you need to hammer intensely on something you need the proper tool or Anvil.

 

[Alan Douglas]

I thought that mechanic's vises had anvils but machinist's vises did not.

 

[WWIIjeep]

I thought that mechanic's vises had anvils but machinist's vises did not.

Not necessarily. Wilton machinists' vises--the so-called "bullet" vises--have small flat anvil-like surfaces, while some of their older mechanics' vises--like the Cadet--didn't have an anvil surface.

 

[ilovevocs]

I am not a fan of hard hammering on anything. If you are, you are probably not thinking the problem through very well and need to step back and re think.

X2. I agree.

 

[rusty65]

Not necessarily. Wilton machinists' vises--the so-called "bullet" vises--have small flat anvil-like surfaces, while some of their older mechanics' vises--like the Cadet--didn't have an anvil surface.

The older wilton vises have the anvils part of the cast and just machined flat so be careful with large hammers on them or you could crack that area which I have seen before on here.


Sent From Snap On Headquarters deep in China.

 

[Filson]

JimmyTheMonkey - No problem man, I'm glad it helped!

I'll also x2 what coolreed said about rethinking what your doing. I used to work in a shop that the solution to 30% of the problems that came up was to "Get your BFH!" BFH being Big F#$%ing Hammer. Once in awhile - it may be called for, but 99% of the time, your probably just lacking the proper tools/equipment and or training.

Take the time to learn and never hesitate to ask questions. If your having to put an excessively rough amount of effort into it - just get yourself the right tool - save the "rough effort" for a wild night with the wife.

 

[Exceller8]

I never ever hammer on a vise anvil. I have several pieces of railroad track around the shop and I beat on that. You can pickup a small piece for next to nothing.