Hand tool dust extraction - how important is self clean?

[marlinspike]

I would like a dust extractor to use with my sanders and jigsaw. I like the idea of the Festool CT SYS, both because of size and price (or the Fein Turbo I with the add on HEPA filter if the extra power would be a good idea), but without a self-clean for the filter like the Bosch and the Metabo have, I am worried I will have to constantly stop and clean the filter out to keep it from being clogged. Anybody have first hand experience?

 

[mhejl]

I recently bought a Festool MINI (wanted a small size) to replace an older Fein Turbo I with CleanStream HEPA filter. I can't find parts like the sound insulation foam for the Fein anymore.

The Festool variable vac speed is miles better with RO sanders than the Fein. I don't like the hard plastic hose ends on the stock Fein hoses, either - I've broken a bunch of them.

I use a Dust Deputy with both and plan on getting the Oneida AXD000009 to go on top of the Festool. The Dust Deputy removes most of the fine dust. Over maybe 15 years, I've only used 3 of the 5 original bags I bought with the Fein. The Festools also have bags in addition to the plate filter.

 

[JRC3]

I don't sand with mine but I hook my shop vac to my table and miter saws even when I'm outside. I do it to keep the dust off people's driveways and landscape but it also keeps a lot of dust off of me. Anyway, it isn't a fancy dust collection type vac but a good old Rigid with a HEPA filter and a bag. I also use it for my drywall sander and suction is always high. I think bagging a shop vac is overlooked by most and until you do it you don't know how well it actually works. The filter stays practically spotless and emptying is so much cleaner too. Haven't rolled a filter across the yard or taped one on the side of a trash can in over a year now...You know what I'm talking about. Seriously, $30 for a HEPA filter and $15 for 3 bags, try it.

 

[e36jon]

I have a Fein with a dust-deputy and I can't imagine working any other way. Love the auto trigger functionality. I also am finding more tools coming with dust ports. That said, performance does drop off on some materials (drywall and concrete dust) more than I would like (Even with the bags and the dust-deputy. I may need to replace the HEPA filter as it's ~15 years old now...). Reading the reviews of the newest crop of HEPA shop vacs it sounds like the auto-clean feature really works. Can't compare it to anything else as it's all I have ever used...

 

[rice rocket]

Is this for a cordless sander/sander?

If not, I never really got why exceedingly small vacs like the CT SYS were in demand. You pay to replace vacuum bags constantly, and the suction power is no better than a $50 Hoover from Walmart.

I think I'd get that cordless Makita HEPA backpack vac before I'd get the CT SYS, at least you could sand/saw on roofs and clean your house with that, haha.


Also, I didn't have autoclean on my Festool vac and it did fine; the autoclean is really for when you run it bagless for fine cementius powders from masonry, because the bag would just clog instantly. I wouldn't miss the function for 90% of my uses for it, but for that 10% of the time I do, it's awesome. Cement and drywall dust causes silicosis and will ruin lungs quicker than sawdust will, not to mention windshields and other glass as well.

 

[marlinspike]

All my sanders are corded but my jigsaw is cordless. I have a 16 gallon shop vac for which i just got the bags to stop having to do the trash can tap, but while it does collect the dust, it's very loud and I'm tired of lugging it around. It would be good for wet vacing and for the router table, but for portable tools it's a pain. Is there any consensus on Festool vs Fein vs Bosch (the metabo is just too expensive), maybe not on which is best but on which is better in what way?

Would the CT SYS fill up constantly if only using it with sanders and not as a shop vac? The suction specs on it look stout, does it really not have much power?

 

[rice rocket]

The CT SYS capacity is really small (3.5L) and bags are $4 a pop. Contrast that to the "standard" 25-35L setups, you're looking at 7-10x the replacement schedule. It takes me probably two weekends of heavy sanding to fill up the 35L bags, that'd be $80 in bags/month!

The other option is to grab the $80 long life bag, which if they're anything like the CT 26 long-life bags, aren't super impressive. They're made in China, stitching is single stitch and pretty messy to boot. At the price, it needs to last 20x as long as the single use fleece bags, which they might...but it would be barely.

Rated power on the CT SYS is meh, it's on par with what the old CT MINI did, but the full size ones still pull about 50% harder.


I'm willing to bet you can find a happy medium between 16 gallon and .9 gallons.

I've had the Festool CT26 and the Starmix 35L, and both are of reasonable size. I can bring it in-out of the house fine, with one hand. Fits through doors fine.

The Fein no longer has motor control; suction is controlled via a port at the end of the hose. Bosch switched from Starmix to Karcher recently, but they both have been making vacuums for some 50-odd years. They should be available during the 20% off sales that should happen soon. Don't forget the Makita either, which is a Nilfisk product (who manufactured Festool's vacs until a few years ago when they decided to make their own); they've also been in the business for quite a while.

 

[dnschmidt]

The use of a cyclone (Dust Deputy) along with the vac is key. This will enormously extend the life of the filters in the vac.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The little dust bags on palm sanders/multitools are a joke. The quickly fill up and sometime can even pop off.

Cleaning these little bags adequately requires going outside and blowing them out with compressed air.

 

[marlinspike]

The little dust bags on palm sanders/multitools are a joke. The quickly fill up and sometime can even pop off.

Cleaning these little bags adequately requires going outside and blowing them out with compressed air.

When I don't use a vac, the filter attachment on my Metabo SXE 450 lasts plenty long before I need to shake it out.

 

[rlitman]

The little dust bags on palm sanders/multitools are a joke. The quickly fill up and sometime can even pop off.

Cleaning these little bags adequately requires going outside and blowing them out with compressed air.

Some are better than others. I can't say I've owned a multitool with dust collection. Most of the sanders I've owned were designed for vacuum hookup, and the bags don't do much without additional suction.

The worst are the bags on my DeWalt sliding miter saw, and my PC biscuit jointer. They're coarse fabric that barely catches the chips thrown at them. With a vacuum attached, the miter saw starts to become barely acceptable, and the otherwise horribly messy biscuit jointer becomes dust-free.

My Dynabrade sanders are at the opposite end of the spectrum. The air venturi in their exhaust does a decent job of creating suction to collect dust, and their felt bags contain the dust quite well. Using a vacuum instead of the dust bag makes only a minimal difference.

 

[marlinspike]

How important do you guys find an anti-static hose is? I thought I had settled on the Fein, but now I see it can't accept an anti-static. I do know I have been shocked by my shop-vac hose, but I wonder if it's more prone to that than a better vac would be just by virtue of its cheap design and universal motor.