Hand tools + sets, need advice...

[cudacharlie]

Howdy all.. I'm a longtime forum viewer who has learned A LOT by lurking, and now it's time to get spending, and I need a little advice...

I've got a couple of 1970 Mopars that I'd like to be able to do a bit of wrenching on (maybe up to the level of suspension rebuild...), and I've got a budget of $1000-$2000 for an initial buy-in of hand tools.. (My entire hand tools collection at present is about good for a roadside emergency kit )

Three questions relate to overall strategy, brand choices, and tool choices, and here's what I'm thinking...

1 - Strategy: Should I get a large, "comprehensive" toolset from Craftsman, say two or three of the non-overlapping add-a-sets that are around $800 per 'module', or piece it together with Facom (which I love) and Craftsman, paying more per piece but not buying tools that I don't need? With the big sets, you don't get laser-etched sockets, and I don't remember the last time I used a metric socket on a Mopar!

-

2 - Brand choices: Every Facom tool I've seen I loved, and of course Craftsman are cheap, easy, and replaceable down the block. I'd like to go Facom for the precision stuff you use all the time (palm-control ratchets, yummm), and maybe Craftsman for simpler or less-used things like punches and hammers. And, I don't even know how to buy a Snap-On tool, but I'm willing to learn...

3 - What will I need? Do I really need 1/4, 3/8, AND 1/2; sae AND metric; standard, deep, flex, standard impact, deep impact, AND flex impact sockets? (whew). Perhaps these Craftsman sets are the best indication of what I'll need, but I'm just looking for suggestions and opinions from you tool junkies!!!

Thanks!

 

[danski0224]

There has been discussion here about the declining quality of Facom. Read up on it on your own.

You are right about the lack of metric fasteners on the Mopars you are describing. If you do work on any new car, you will need metric stuff.

Most of my tools are Craftsman with a little Snap-On mixed in. The Snap-On stuff covers line wrenches, crowsfoot style line wrenches, torque wrenches, a vacuum/fuel pressure gauge, a couple of ratchets and some long pattern metric wrenches.

I feel that the money spent on Snap-On for that mix of tools was worth it for my needs. The list seems long, but the stuff (except the torque wrenches) will fit in a small 12" tool box with room to spare. Probably works out to $50 per pound of shiny chrome.

98% of the rest of my automotive hand tools are Craftsman, and they have served me well. Yes, I have broken some... but the use of the tool at the time was questionable. I do not own any impact sockets or air tools.

You will have a hard time beating the value of the Craftsman prepackaged sets. The only thing to watch is an inflated tool count when the hex keys and hacksaw blades are added in.

You probably should spend some of that money on a decent tool box or some other type of tool storage.

 

[eschoendorff]

There has been discussion here about the declining quality of Facom. Read up on it on your own.

Not sure what you mean here. I would disagree... Facom is good stuff. The concern is that ths Stanley Group has bought Facom out and there may be a change in where the tools are built (and that quality may follow). But all of that is pure speculation. I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that Facom quality is dwindling.

Now, on the flip side, you can read for days on this forum and others where folks have complained that Craftsman and even the mighty Snap On just "aren't built like they used to be." There may indeed be some truth to those statements, but Snap On and esp Craftsman work extremely well for 99% of the folks out there. And everybody has their favorite brand and will tell you why brand "A" is better than brand "B." In the end, you need to hold and feel the tool and see if it's right for you. This board is a good place to get some leads on tools to try (that being said, I have found that Allen-branded Danaher stuff is nice, too).

Point is, everything is relative. I personally would buy Facom with more confidence (quality-wise) than Craftsman. Craftsman is simply easier to warranty. But, again, that is just my opinion.

You will obviously need tto start with the basics in your toolkit... a good set of sockets and wrenches (start with the regular length) in both SAE and metric. Trust me, you will need both at some point in time. Also... you will want good quality pliers and screwdrivers. Those things seem to get overlooked in many toolkits.

Also, be aware that while a tool set can be a great value and a great way to start off, many of the pieces in the 8,354,738 piece toolset are things like hex wrenches and other "filler." Not that they are not important, but you will probably using hex bits way more than you will ever use traditional hex wrenches.

Don't worry... you will always add tools as you need or want them, and that's part of the fun!

 

[wythors]

If I were in your situation, knowing that I was not going to have a great need for metric tools and just starting out with that budget, I don't think I'd buy one of the big Craftsman sets. I'd probably buy SAE sockets sets in the three drive sizes, some extensions, a wrench set and a good set of screwdrivers from one of the major tool companies like SK, Snap-on, Mac or Matco. I might even peruse ebay for some good used stuff from them. After that, I'd fill in things like pliers, hammers and the like with brands like Channelock, Vise-grip, Facom and Craftsman. One other consideration would probably be a compressor and some basic air tools like a 1/2" impact and a set of sockets as well as a 3/8" air ratchet. They make life much easier and you can alway add more air tools as you go along. I have a die grinder and a 1/4" ratchet that have helped me out a lot.

Just my .02.

 

[motorheadjohn]

Pick up a tool catalog at your closest Sears store. I thought they still offered mechanics sets in SAE or metric only, not just combination sets, but it's possible they only stock the combination sets. Might need to order from the catalog if you want SAE stuff only. Study the mechanics sets carefully to see what they include.

If you intend to rebuild suspensions on a Mopar, you definitely need 1/2" drive equipment, and some large open/box combination wrenches as well. I've got a 1970 Roadrunner now and have rebuilt front and rear ends on several previous cars too (73 Charger, 69 Charger, 78 Magnum GT, etc). I do not think you will go wrong buying a set that includes 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive.

If I remember correctly, I started with a basic 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive SAE socket set. I added screwdrivers, files, wire brushes, chisels & punches, 1/4" through 1" combination wrenches, 1/2" breaker bar, ball joint pickle fork, hammers including a heavy sledge, and some individual purchased larger 1/2" sockets. I would also suggest a good workbench constructed of 2x4 and 2x6, with a medium to large size vice.

I used that basic starting point for a long time, working on my Mopars and daily drivers, storing the tools in a basic Craftsman 3-drawer portable toolbox. I added metric pieces when I got a motorcycle and when the daily drivers were traded for 80s/90s or later models. I did not see a need to purchase a larger mechanics set that included nutdrivers or other stuff.

Just my 2 cents for starting out.

 

[skim41]

Well,

Ive gone through the same situation. However you want to keep the following things in mind:
if you use your tools frequently you'll want have something that lasts for a while. So you should go for an A brand.


Do you need the sizes, well yes. If you dont have them, you will use a bigger ratchet for a too "small" bolt. Which can cause overtorqueing the bolt. I've noticed myself that when you ahve the 1/4" 3/8"and 1/2" ratchets and sockets you will also use them.

Why not go for a Facom Module system, these are also for Inch sizes. Also these can be expanded more and more in the future when needed, whilst maintaining the same good looks.

Facom has a lot of "start" modules, which has all the basic tools you need, pliers, hammers, ratchet and socket sets, screwdrivers etc.

Also make sure that you are comfortable with the brand you choose and that they are ergonomically formed, which increases tooltime and pleasure.

 

[Elroy]

Howdy all....I need a little advice...

I've got a couple of 1970 Mopars that I'd like to be able to do a bit of wrenching on (maybe up to the level of suspension rebuild...), and I've got a budget of $1000-$2000 for an initial buy-in of hand tools.. (My entire hand tools collection at present is about good for a roadside emergency kit )

And Howdy Dewty to you too.

So you want some advise. Ok you asked. Elroy is just offering advise. Free advise at that so take it for what it's worth.

So you want to fix up your Mopar. And your looking for tools. Good. But Elroy would also like to point out some additional items you may require that go beyond "wrenches"

First off, your probably going to need a floor jack and some jack stands. And then how about something simple like a drop light? If your going to be doing heavy work you may like to have some pry bars and some C-Clamps on hand. How about a grease gun and a pickle fork or two. Front end work on a close to 40 year old car may also require a "smoke wrench" and/or a nut splitter. A set of thread files and a few wire scratch brushes may come in handy just like a set of drill bits and drill motor.

My point is not to shoot your idea down just to make you aware that there are more to tools than just wrenches and screw drivers. Elroy has yet to see a "kit" that is going to have everything you need. Now a kit will give you a foundation to build from. But your going to get to the point where you need something you don't have. Plan for it and work safe. Got any eye protection or gloves? Having a "garage" to work in is also more than nice but Elroy assumes you have one of those.

Good luck to ya and post some more pictures of that Mopar.

Oh ya, a fridge and some cool ones help too.

 

[kartracer55]

I wouldnt rule out metrics totally, sometimes I metric socket will fit on an SAE bolt better than an SAE socket, but thats beside the point.

Sets are a great value, so dont rule them out. Any sort of set is usually a better value than buying just a single set of sockets. Do you already have a box to hold it all? Boxes are a pretty big expensive, even for a small one.

Wrenches... Before you buy ANY wrenches, try them out. Some people love snap on wrenches, I really dont like the way they feel in my hand. Craftsman Standard wrenches are actually not bad, but I have noticed they dont hold up quite as well as others. Their Pro wrenches are pretty nice. Also look into Proto and SK.

For sockets Id say 6pts first. I have NEVER had a problem with an SK socket, Ive broken 2 craftsmans and 2 snap ons. Snap on Flankdrive is Excellent, and SK Sure grip is excellent too. As long as they are USA made your not going to have a problem, I have quite a large number of both SK and Craftsman. SK has a more extensive line than craftsman. Also, be carefull about Snap on off ebay, most of them have looked like they've been used pretty heavily. For about $600, you can get an entire set of SK sockets (1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 super sets) They are usually more extensive than the craftsman sets which tend to leave out sizes here and there. these sets also come with a ratchet and extensions.

THere are countless brands of screwdrivers and pliers, each has many threads dedicated soley to them. Its all personal preference.



In My opinion, You should buy ONE THING AT A TIME!!! lol Start off with a box. You dont need something huge, The sears ball bearing 3 piece combos that go on sale should suit you very well. About 500. Start with one of those. Next, make a thread asking about sockets, and we can help you decide on a brand and what sizes to go with. Then Wrenches, then pliers and screwdrivers. Youll be overwhelmed trying to pick out everything all at once.

Jim

 

[Uncle Buck]

Hell, I cannot imagine what it would be like to have $1000.00-$2000.00 to spend on tools. I began buying mechanics tools at around 14 yrs old and never stopped. New, used, etc... As I recall the most I ever spent at one time on any tool or piece of equipment was $1000.00 for my metal lathe. I am now 43 and cannot imagine having to replace all of my tools that were bought a piece or two at a time. I guess if you are starting with nothing I would have to say pick your brand, most bang for the buck to your way of thinking (no chi-com junk though) start with a set of combo end wrenches going from 5/16 to at least an inch, preferably get the set that goes to 1 1/4. Now add 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 sets the most complete that you can find and use that as a jumping off point for the rest of the goodies. If you are a true tool junkie you will never find a stopping point, there is always some gadget or specialty tool that you just cannot live without! Stand firm and remember the credo He who dies with the most tools wins! (Jokin of course)

 

[MarkH]

Age 14 in a time long ago I bought my first set. I went Craftsman at that tme and would again. With inflation was about equal to a little over $1,000 today. With only a few tools did not regret the decision, it gave me a start and enough money left over for a timing light, dwell meter (remember those) and a few other required tools.

Most highly used tools have been replaced with other brands, but it was a great starter that kept me away from the real junk of the time and parts of that set are still in use for times when I need multiples of a tool. Look at catalogs, think and enjoy. Once in the better tools there is really no bad choices, just personal preferences.

 

[kartracer55]

Hey check this out!!!

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...OL&pid=00947971000&subcat=Mechanics+Tool+Sets

Craftsman SAE set on sale. just under 550$. YOu can get a pretty decent toolbox for about 450-500 on sale at sears (watch the club flier) prining you to about 1050... Craftsman standard ratchets **** for the most part, so Id say go for a high end ratchet. A set of snap ons should be about 200, for basic ratchets. Maybe get yourself a long pattern and flexhead for another 130 ish, and your set for ratchets. 1400 ish... Hammers, chisels, punches, pry bars for another 150 ish 1550. A nice set of ratcheting combo wrenches (craftsman reversible for 100$) 1650$ Allow another 100-200 for another set of sockets that you might need from SK or somebody. Say, 1800. Yup 1800$ and youve got one hell of a toolset with almost everything youll need. Maybe a gear puller or two and specialty type tools after that, and then youll have just about everything you could possibly need.

The difference between you and me is that youve got the cash Being a tool addicted kid really ***** because I have to buy everything one item at a time lol

Jim

 

[cudacharlie]

WOW! Thanks for all the great advice and opinions... I've been making a list or three, and sure enough, the 'big' sets have way too many hex keys and hacksaw blades, and yes, Sears still has all-SAE and all-metric sets in various sizes. These are probably a more logical place to start than the larger, all-inclusive sets. Say a large all-sae set, and a much smaller metric set.

After closer inspection of the CM catalog, it seems clear that the way to go is to piece it together... more time, maybe, and a little more money, but more fun too! And, after reading EVERY SINGLE thread in Tool Time (whew), I have found some great tools you guys have found (Wera, Wiha, GearWrench NutDriver...) and all I can say to y'all is...



Love this place! Been savin' and waitin' a long time for this, so....

Let the tool collecting begin!

 

[mikeatrpi]

I recently purchased a Craftsman 318 piece set for $215 (actually 10% less, because I bought it on a Saturday promotion before Christmas). It was on clearance- and I couldn't find it listed in their catalog so it must be a discontinued or old set. Every time I'm at the mall I stroll through the sears tool clearance section- about once every 4 months or so it pays off and I pick something up.

 

[Fast Orange]

To add to your fun,you can buy Snap-On tools online(www.snapon.com) or off e-bay.Be forewarned -sticker shock from the pricing may be hazardous to your health.
I believe that you're on the right track-buy separate sets that fit your needs at the time and add as your needs and skills require.
For a fairly comprehensive start,get SAE sets of 1/4,3/8 and 1/2 drive sockets and drive tools.I would start with 6 pt deep sockets and 12 pt shallows,covering a range from 1/4" to at least 1" amongst the 3 drive sizes. Next on my list would be combination wrenches-12 pt,standard length-2 sets with the same range as the sockets.Hammers,screwdrivers,pliers etc. all follow the same principle-get the basics , then add the specialty stuff as you find a need.
As for a toolbox,find one that you think willtake you 5 years to fill,then go to the next bigger size-in a couple of years,if you're like the rest of us here,even that won't be big enough. Once the tool bug gets you,tool collecting becomes almost as big a hobby as the cars themselves.

George

 

[Jared]

id get a nice set of sockets 1/4 3/8 1/2, some standard wrenchs, some flare nut wrenchs, screw driver, pliers, and a nice box to start . id go with a good ratchets espically 3/8 and 1/2 try snap on or sk. i find that it doesn't matter so much bout the 1/4inch drive a craftsman should be fine.

 

[l_bilyk]

Hey check this out!!!

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...OL&pid=00947971000&subcat=Mechanics+Tool+Sets

Craftsman SAE set on sale. just under 550$. YOu can get a pretty decent toolbox for about 450-500 on sale at sears (watch the club flier) prining you to about 1050... Craftsman standard ratchets **** for the most part, so Id say go for a high end ratchet. A set of snap ons should be about 200, for basic ratchets. Maybe get yourself a long pattern and flexhead for another 130 ish, and your set for ratchets. 1400 ish... Hammers, chisels, punches, pry bars for another 150 ish 1550. A nice set of ratcheting combo wrenches (craftsman reversible for 100$) 1650$ Allow another 100-200 for another set of sockets that you might need from SK or somebody. Say, 1800. Yup 1800$ and youve got one hell of a toolset with almost everything youll need. Maybe a gear puller or two and specialty type tools after that, and then youll have just about everything you could possibly need.

The difference between you and me is that youve got the cash Being a tool addicted kid really ***** because I have to buy everything one item at a time lol

Jim

I agree

Except I would opt for the biggest set.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...OL&pid=00936432000&subcat=Mechanics+Tool+Sets

Comes with line wrenches and gearwrenches. How can you go wrong!

 

[jsackin]

We recently bought a large deal from SK-Facom when they split. This was before they were bought by Stanley. It's a closeout deal and the prices are below WD.

www.harryepstein.com/Wholesale/skfacomlist.htm

 

[Uncle Buck]

Guys, you may want to pay attention to the above link to the harry epstein site. I used to shop there years ago, but since moving etc etc I have not for some time. At any rate, I used to pick up some excellent deals there, obviously things have not changed! Check out the Bonney, Wilde, Diamond stuff still available through them! I think their pricing looks even better on the closeouts than it did 10-15 years ago. I would have mentioned them a long time ago but I had no idea they have a website!

 

[Uncle Buck]

jsackin: How much would I have to buy to talk free shipping to Topeka , KS. ?

 

[sberry]

There is a lot of tool talk here but I think one would be hard pressed to beat the deal at Menards for Allen brand, USA made and the price is terriffic. I think they should be supported for being USA and being so reasonable price and great quality. Walk right in and buy off the shelf.

 

[vettescout]

Man I love the feel of snap-on, have some, have alot of S-K, that said most of my junk is craftsman, and with that said I think the only tools I have ever broken were some Taiwanese junk that I don't even know where they came from. I just don't abuse stuff.If it's that tight go to 1/2 or even 3/4 drive, use Kroil and/or the smoke wrench. But some day I'll buy all the snap on junk I want just to have it!

 

[jsackin]

We use UPS and shipping charges to Topeka would be minimal since we're located in Kansas City, MO. We don't add any additional handling charges. It would be great if you could come down and see us. We've been in the same building for 75 years and it's a real old fashioned tool store. We're open M-F 7:30 - 5 & Sat 8:30 - 12:00.

 

[krooser]

Don't rule out Kobalt sockets sets from Lowes...nice quality, made in USA...good warranty and availability. I have two sets for myself and have purchased a few more for gifts...I like 'em...

 

[djjack]

We recently bought a large deal from SK-Facom when they split. This was before they were bought by Stanley. It's a closeout deal and the prices are below WD.

www.harryepstein.com/Wholesale/skfacomlist.htm

I just received my first order (SK pullers and Facom screwdrivers) from Harry Epstein. Great prices and great service.

 

[eschoendorff]

I just received my first order (SK pullers and Facom screwdrivers) from Harry Epstein. Great prices and great service.

You're gonna love those screwdrivers. Like nothing else...

 

[KeukaDan]

I have a set of the Facom Screwdrivers and they are great

 

[sberry]

I agree, with a little shopping a guy can get a lot of good tooling for the right price. Sanp On can be considered the best but the cost is astonomical, I might buy some used here and there. The tool biz just under that truck dealer level is very competitive, thats why Sears was so successful. Now there are even more right down to discount stores in this market. Now days you could walk in to Walmart with under a grand and have a service worthy tool set. That stuff is good, Walmart dont want to be a return center for it, there is a certain brand name behind it like Stanely the tools are good. I wouldnt hesitate to buy something in a crisis. For not all much more money, maybe double you could buy stuff made in USA, that Kobalt, some Sears, Allen and then you could move to the SK class. If you figure you have to be a tight *** that Sears class are warranted but even if it isnt just replace it. Double up on small wrench set, maybe a few sockets, but for near 5K a guy could build a real respectable working set that would do 95% of what most mechanics ever do with hand tools and never lose any skin over it. You could probably squeak an impact and a couple air ratchets in for that.

 

[chevy302dz]

Craftsman, if it's a basic hand tool and Craftsman dosen't make it then SK if it's a speciality tool and Craftsman dosen't make it KD, Lisle, or OTC.