Hand tools vs impact tools: which are better at protecting fasteners?
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gizardlizard
Well-known member
Not sure what you mean by “protecting” the fasteners. I don’t know of anybody who would use hand tools instead of impact stuff on suspension fasteners and brake stuff. I live in the rust belt in Wisconsin and impact use is a must.
DerekV
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Just like almost everything in life, it depends.
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
If you're just wailing on a fastener with the impact gun without much result, then the impact gun is laying down some wear and tear on the fastener.
On the other hand, if a fastener is just plain stuck (frozen threads) and an impact wont budge it, sometimes "hand tools" will just twist the head off the fastener once the cheater bar comes out. Seen it plenty on M14 subframe fasteners.
-Ryan
On the other hand, if a fastener is just plain stuck (frozen threads) and an impact wont budge it, sometimes "hand tools" will just twist the head off the fastener once the cheater bar comes out. Seen it plenty on M14 subframe fasteners.
-Ryan
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Impact sockets are inherently softer, but I'm not entirely sure what the question is.
Good fitting tooling is probably the most important factor to preserving a fastener. A 99cent adjustable wrench vs a high quality 6 point socket will likely have very different results after torquing a fastener numerous times.
Good fitting tooling is probably the most important factor to preserving a fastener. A 99cent adjustable wrench vs a high quality 6 point socket will likely have very different results after torquing a fastener numerous times.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What are we protecting the fastener from? are we talking cosmetic damage from using an anti slip wrench or being beat by an impact? or are we talking about stretching threads?
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Impact tools are for people who don't give a damn about the fasteners.
toolenthusiast
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I’m gonna take a wild guess that you live somewhere that cars don’t really rust. Around here, hand tools are for people who don’t give a damn about twisting heads off of bolts.
I went to loosen an exhaust manifold bolt by hand, and my buddy said an impact would be easier on the fastener. I ended up bumping it loose with my palm on the ratchet and it didn't turn out to be a struggler, but it did make me think about which approach is best and honestly I'm not sure there's one right answer.
I haven't noticed significant wear on my suspension fasteners after ripping them on and off with the high torque impact. I have broken a few seized bolts, never rounded anything with an impact that wasn't related to me not holding it square.
I haven't noticed significant wear on my suspension fasteners after ripping them on and off with the high torque impact. I have broken a few seized bolts, never rounded anything with an impact that wasn't related to me not holding it square.
Fedwrench
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Wamsutta
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I was referring to this video I watched earlier today on youtube. The guy uses an impact driver to disassemble a grinder. Who uses a power tool to disassemble another power tool? That's ridiculous as heck. And then at the end of the video he installs some nasty, extremely thick, dark gray grease that's totally wrong for the grinder.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
This other guy in this video does a superior job disassembling two grinders for a comparison review. He uses a hand screwdriver.Do you actually think the peeps at the Buick factory built it by hand?
Time is money
Yep. Even with the right size socket if it's something that needs the strength of an impact to get it loose it's doing it by hand that usually rounds stuff off.
It's the hammering of an impact that helps get stuff loose.
toolenthusiast
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So?
Exactly
It's a proper-tool-for-the-task thing.
My M12 Surge Impact Driver is a LOT better in Mode 1 getting fasteners out without stripping or breaking. I was replacing all the hinges in my kitchen and the damn screws of the original installation were made of something like butter. My Wiha screwdrivers were breaking and stripping screws (or, more accurately, the operator was...) where my M12 worked like magic.
I'd have no issues disassembling a power tool with it.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I believe he is using a drill.
P.S. If you clicked the play button and nothing happened, its a screenshot. lol
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Either way you're not going to get a feel for the fastener. I had to disassemble my grinder yesterday because it needs a bearing. I used a nice Klein Phillips for the Phillips screws and then I used a Williams ratcheting screwdriver for the Torx screws. The Torx bit was an Apex T20. It was an enjoyable experience. That "crack" sound of the screws breaking loose is an enjoyable sound. And one other thing I should mention: I am EXTREMELY particular about how the screwdriver fits the fastener. It's gotta fit perfect or I won't use it.I believe he is using a drill.
P.S. If you clicked the play button and nothing happened, its a screenshot. lol
garfunkle24
Well-known member
I'm glad using hand tools was enjoyable for you. That definitely justifies you disparaging someone and calling them ridiculous for using likely the quickest and best method of dis-assembling a tool.
If I'm taking something apart I couldn't give a **** about "feeling" the fastener. I want the fastener out and preferably in one piece. An impact is often the best way to achieve that.
Impact tools are for people smart enough to know when to use them and when not to. Simplistic, absolute rules like "impact tools are for people who don't care about fasteners" are for the other people.
I don't mind so much things being taken apart that way, depending on what the item is, as long as they don't keep going when the screw won't come out and strip the head. I have more of a problem when people put things back together that way.
crewchief888
Well-known member
FWIW
if i can get air (or these days battery) power to a fastener thats the way i go.
couple small screws? i'll probably grab the appropriate screwdriver or hex bit.
if i can get air (or these days battery) power to a fastener thats the way i go.
couple small screws? i'll probably grab the appropriate screwdriver or hex bit.
toolenthusiast
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Ok, so you have a weird kink. That’s OK; you do you. But that doesn’t make impact drivers bad…
jonesg
Well-known member
yep, especially philips screws, an impact can strip the head in a flash.
Impacts work best when the fastener can be positively grabbed , like a socket on a bolt head, or torx,
not too swift to use one on philip screws....but I do.!
If you do strip the head then resort to air hammer and shake and break.
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
Depends? A grandson asks, Grampa Do you wear boxers or briefs? The old guy says, Depends.Exactly
It's a proper-tool-for-the-task thing.
My M12 Surge Impact Driver is a LOT better in Mode 1 getting fasteners out without stripping or breaking. I was replacing all the hinges in my kitchen and the damn screws of the original installation were made of something like butter. My Wiha screwdrivers were breaking and stripping screws (or, more accurately, the operator was...) where my M12 worked like magic.
I'd have no issues disassembling a power tool with it.
WAID
Well-known member
I sure find impacts to be a lot less likely to strip phillips heads.
My M12 Surge in Mode 1 is fantastic on brass Phillips screws
jonesg
Well-known member
You're not thinking it through, an impact applies radial force, its trying to force the screw to turn, a philips head will try to cam the bit out of the head by its geometry.
Applying enough vertical force to keep it engaged strips the head very easily.
An air hammer with the shake and break only applies vertical shock to the screw. It has no radial action.
jonesg
Well-known member
I have one, but having presence of mind to dial down the kick escapes me.
Too many choices on the controls just confuses me.
Dakotadadv8
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I just cut it off love the reciprocating saw. Same goes for exhaust pipes if a section is going bad the rest is not far behind cut them off and throw them out. Always wonder why some will struggle with pipe expansion and spending hours taking them apart.
WAID
Well-known member
I'm just saying the initial loosening or tightening of a phillips head seems to strip less than the same action with a drill/driver or hand held screwdriver in my experience. I assume because the short radial distance of the impact impulse makes it somewhat easier to control and prevent the cam-out from taking off and doing significant damage. That said I was primarily replying to you first line and that experience doesn't apply to the point a shake and bake comes out.
Walkers
Well-known member
The only thing you need an impact for there is to tighten the nut splitter! Ifanything ever came into my shop that looked anything like what I see you guys doing disassembly and reassembly on I would recommend total frame replacement on.
I suspect if the fastener is not stuck, it doesn’t matter which tool you use to remove it. The head will be undamaged regardless. If the fastener IS stuck, I suspect the impulse from the impact gun will damage the head less than if you applied a lesser sustained load.
I think the key is the definition of stuck. I think bolts can be stuck such that the sustained torque required to remove them is enough to yield the head. When you hit that same bolt with an impact gun, it removes the bolt without damage. I think that’s the advantage of the impulse.
Does that mean impact guns are superior and should be used universally? I think if you were driving screws and your choice was a drill or an impact driver, I think the impact driver would be the better choice. Easier on you and the heads. Neither you or the fastener really experience the torque. For automotive, I prefer impacts over powered ratchets for this reason.
Like Wamsutta, I prefer hand tools for most automotive or mechanical tasks due to feel.
I think the key is the definition of stuck. I think bolts can be stuck such that the sustained torque required to remove them is enough to yield the head. When you hit that same bolt with an impact gun, it removes the bolt without damage. I think that’s the advantage of the impulse.
Does that mean impact guns are superior and should be used universally? I think if you were driving screws and your choice was a drill or an impact driver, I think the impact driver would be the better choice. Easier on you and the heads. Neither you or the fastener really experience the torque. For automotive, I prefer impacts over powered ratchets for this reason.
Like Wamsutta, I prefer hand tools for most automotive or mechanical tasks due to feel.
redwrench60
Well-known member
If you find yourself staring at the same sway bar link bolt for two hours because you’re worried it will feel bullied if you use an impact, maybe working on cars isn’t for you. Some of you guys would starve to death on flat rate.
I agree. But be careful about extolling the virtues of flat rate techs. They sometimes damage the cars they fix and some don’t seem to give a ****.
I know the mechanics don’t make a lot of money, but I get charged a lot, so I expect expert level workmanship, and I don’t typically feel I receive that.
Not sure if trolling or not. I've worked on cars from the Southwest and the rust belt. You're talking about apples and watermelons in comparing the two.
redwrench60
Well-known member
This ain’t the my mechanic stripped my lug nuts and my wheel fell off thread. This is the whether or not power tools should even be used on nuts and bolts thread. I can assure you thousands of mechanics and techs remove and install dump truck loads of hardware daily without any damage. I worked flat rate for 25 years and the overwhelming majority of techs did very good work. The very nature of the business weeds out underperforming or ham fisted types. If you frequent a shop that messes your ride up a lot, it’s time to find a new shop.