Handling a roadside breakdown

[GarageEnvy]

I'm trying to turn my $450 roadside breakdown into a learning experience so I'm wondering what you guys would have done in the same situation.

Scenario:
Family vacation in 1994 Camry. I'm about 250 miles away from home in Lake Tahoe on day 1 of the vacation. The Camry with wife and 3 kids (plus luggage) overheats on the last hill to Lake Tahoe. I wait for it to cool and leave the electric fans running enough to help but not enough to drain the battery. I don't attempt to open the radiator. When cool I head the rest of the way into destination. Sunday morning I drive the car 5 miles and steam is billowing. The radiator is split across the top. So it's Sunday and I'm in north Lake Tahoe with few resources for repair. I find one auto parts store and buy JB Weld and a Permatex radiator repair kit.

Solution:
Because I had reservations at two different destinations and the remainder of the trip involved long stretches down desolate roadways (Hwy 395) and over passes as high as 9900+ foot elevation I used the JB weld (quick dry) and waited 4 hours. Then I limped it to Reno. I debated running the remaining 400 miles on the patch vs. buying and installing or carrying another radiator vs. finding a shop to do the repair. Because of kids, wife, distance location and the hills I was going to climb I opted for a shop to do the repair. One shop was available and it was very much like the scene from Vacation where the wagon breaks down. No work order to sign. He claimed he had to replace the 8 month old thermostat. He couldn't produce the old thermostat or hose clamps.

I paid $400 for the repair. I doubt the thermostat and hose clamps were replaced but I took the kids to lunch and didn't stay. The $82 (my price at NAPA) radiator was $166. The thermostat was $10, O-ring $2.50, hose clamps $2.50 and the rest was labor. Time was about 90 minutes.

I'm glad I got the car fixed on short notice and really appreciate what he did for salvaging the vacation but have mixed feelings about the cost of the repair. The initial quote was around $250 and then I got the $400 at pick up.

Given the circumstances
Would you have insisted on a work order and authorization before more work was done?
Insisted on not paying for work that he couldn't produce proof he performed?
Done something different to fix the problem?
Handled the roadside repair different?

 

[PurdueSD]

That's the kinda deal you just take it on the chin and move on. Just be glad you got back on the road and were able to spend the time with your family. *****, but thats just how it is sometimes.

 

[TommyK]

That's the kinda deal you just take it on the chin and move on. Just be glad you got back on the road and were able to spend the time with your family. *****, but thats just how it is sometimes.

^^THIS^^

It didn't seize.

Be happy.

 

[aka Larry]

What would have taken for *you* to fix it? The parts (radiator, coolant, thermostat, gasket) a few sockets, etc? Could you have bought the parts and a el-chepo socket set and got it done? If the answer is no, then Mr. Supply, meet Mr. Demand.

 

[ckadams00]

I spent two days in Pendleton Oregon once waiting for the only shop that could do a repair to open after a weekend.

Might have overpaid, but look at it another way: it only cost you 90 minutes of your vacation time.

I think you did ok.

 

[signcrafter]

Not being able to show you the old thermostat is kind of fishy. But 400 bucks doesn't sound to bad for a must have repair. I might have questioned the cost but not a lot you can say. Chalk it up as part of the cost of a vacation and enjoy your good memories and forget about the radiator repair. Could have been a lot worse.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Yep. I had that debate. I replaced that radiator 2 years ago and the fluid (along with water pump and thermostat) 8 months ago. It's a very quick and simple repair. If I was single, I probably would have grabbed the cheapo sockets and tools and the radiator at NAPA and driven on the patch with fingers crossed.

I knew that when I drove in with 3 kids in the back with out of state plates and asking if it could be done the same day it was Mr. Demand bending over for Mr. Supply.

I totally get all of that but I run my business a little different. If someone screws up and because of their own negligence and stupidity gets in a jam, I charge extra to bail them out. If someone is in an unfortunate situation because of circumstances outside of their control, it's the normal (or sometimes even discounted or free) price.

In the whole scheme of things it basically was an additional $250-$300 to keep the vacation on track. I probably paid about $100-$150 more than I would have expected for the same repair in my home town. Maybe the thermostat failed. I'm more interested in what people would have done with the roadside repair (product/technique) and what option they would have gone with

I didn't even question the cost. I handed him the card and thanked him for getting it done quickly. The thermostat thing came about because he said, "we had it fixed and filled but it immediately boiled over. I took it all apart again and found the thermostat was stuck." I replied "that's frustrating because I put that thermostat in 8 months ago. You mind if I take it with me to show to my NAPA at home?" The other red flag was that this was a pure radiator repair shop that didn't have radiator fluid on hand. I said I had some with me and he used it. I was given a half-gallon back. That kinda made me think it was filled once, not twice.

But again, I'm more interested in how others would have done the temp repair and whether they would have chanced the trip on the patch than how I was treated at the shop.
.

 

[djjsr]

It's the risk you take when you drive an old car too far from home. I think you did ok. How many miles are on that Camry?

 

[GarageEnvy]

The Camry has ~180,000 on it. Frankly it's a hell of a lot more reliable than our 2000 Tahoe. The irony is that we rarely take the car on road trips because the Tahoe is more comfortable.

However, Mr. Cheapo calculated that he would save ~$100 on gas by driving the Camry. Somewhere between the 10 miles of unpaved washboard road in and out of Bodie (a cool old ghost town BTW) and the radiator repair I came to the epiphany that maybe the Tahoe would have been the better choice.

My kids are 7 and 9. At this age they still believe I can fix anything and know everything. When it broke I was thinking, "Oh man, what do I do now? How am I going to fix this? They were saying, "Don't worry dad, you can fix it. Should we take our seatbelts off or is it going to be quick?"

My wife actually learned a lot. She admitted that if it had happened to her she really wouldn't have known what to do. I took the opportunity to explain how the cooling system works and why I was doing what I was doing and the "logic" behind it. She now may have expanded her knowledge base on cars beyond, "I know they have 4, 6 or 8 thingys under the hood."

 

[55bigblockcid]

UMMMMMM nevermind

 

[greasemonkey44]

Crank the cabin heat to max and the blower to full blast
Limp it to a parts store and buy what you need

You got lucky you didn't lose much of your vacation
You might check that the cooling fans are running right

 

[olytdi]

Quite frankly, I think the price was fair notwithstanding that there might have been some fishy business with the thermostat.

$200 for parts (including taxes), small fee for disposal, leaves about $130/hr or so labor. Not cheap but you got it on-demand while away from home and on vacation.

I think you were luckier than the Griswolds.

 

[Bob C]

However, Mr. Cheapo calculated that he would save ~$100 on gas by driving the Camry.

Saved a 100 on fuel and lost a 50 to the situation. Not bad to keep the vacation going. Me.. Family or not, they all know I would have limped to the napa, grabbed the el-cheapo tools and parts and fluid and changed it along the road. If I was the garage guy, seeing you were with your family, I probably would have done the labor for nothing as long as you were not being an *******.

 

[flht1997]

I think I would have loaded on the JB Quick, filled it 3/4 full and left the cap off one click so not to build pressure, and cranked the heater, IF, i was by myself. With the wife and kids you did the right thing, i think the 400$ was pretty fair.

 

[richfinn]

If you had vacationed in England, you could of called RAC and maybe I would have come and fixed it for you and only charged for the parts, no Labour

Dont you have any roadside repair agencies in the USA??

 

[Devildogs]

You should consider your self lucky you didnt crack the head, that would have been more like $1500. Plus towing, overnight stay in cheap motel, ruined vacation. Count your blessings.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Yep. We ran with the heater on and the windows down. I would not have thought about leaving it 3/4 full or the cap loose. I would have guessed that too much fluid would have been lost.

I fudeged a bit on the time lost on vacation. The original plan was to head to Reno earlier to catch the tail end (parade) of Hot August Nights. Instead we played at the beach of Lake Tahoe and a round of miniature golf while the JB (quick dry) dried. It really wasn't time lost. I had already pushed the kids all day at a boat show so we were contemplating skipping the early departure anyway.

When I bought the JB weld I got the quick and the stronger (but slower drying) formula and that Permatex repair kit. The quick had a cure time of 4-6 hours. The stronger was something like 16-24 hours and the Permatex kit was somewhere in between if I remember right.

The split was 3-4" long and I debated drilling (by hand) small holes at the end of the split but didn't. I've heard stories about using eggs to seal radiators but I didn't know if that was a myth or would actually work.

I am grateful it all worked out the way it did. If it had been something like the head or a engine failure I doubt very much we would have had it fixed. The car is probably only worth $1,500 or so. I think we would have been driving home in something else.

I have very basic mechanical skills with cars. In other words, I know enough to be dangerous and get myself in trouble. I know many of you are pretty sharp with cars so I was curious how some of you would have handled it.

 

[Bob C]

Yep. We ran with the heater on and the windows down. I would not have thought about leaving it 3/4 full or the cap loose. I would have guessed that too much fluid would have been lost.

I fudeged a bit on the time lost on vacation. The original plan was to head to Reno earlier to catch the tail end (parade) of Hot August Nights. Instead we played at the beach of Lake Tahoe and a round of miniature golf while the JB (quick dry) dried. It really wasn't time lost. I had already pushed the kids all day at a boat show so we were contemplating skipping the early departure anyway.

When I bought the JB weld I got the quick and the stronger (but slower drying) formula and that Permatex repair kit. The quick had a cure time of 4-6 hours. The stronger was something like 16-24 hours and the Permatex kit was somewhere in between if I remember right.

The split was 3-4" long and I debated drilling (by hand) small holes at the end of the split but didn't. I've heard stories about using eggs to seal radiators but I didn't know if that was a myth or would actually work.

If possible you may have been able to get a pair of needle nose pliers into where the split vein was and pinch it off on both ends. That would have helped ya some.

 

[GarageEnvy]

It's a plastic topped radiator in the car. The split was right along the plastic seam at the top. Actually I was glad it was so evident and accessible.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

Just be glad you didn't run it hot and ruin the head.

Sounds like you got bent over at a shady place.

 

[pop pop]

At least now you understand the rants on here about mechanics. You did the smart thing.

 

[RECox286]

I do all my own repairs, and am aware of what happens when you are

in dire straits and away from home base. (depending on the shop

owner, how busy the shop is, etc...)

I wouldn't doubt his finding a bad T-stat at all, b/c I have had some last

the life of the car, others haven't lasted long at all, and still I have had

at least one T-stat that was bad in the box. One just never knows

until it is installed and tested. Having a stuck closed T-stat will definity

do bad things to a cooling system, so when it overheated, you should have

had the good sense to remove it immediately prior to moving on. I think

you accelerated the damage done by not doing so. Usually, a raised

hood, and car full of kids is an invite to other motorists to make inquiry

of need. Need would be a small amount of tools. Perhaps you will be

more ready for the next time, by including a small bunch of tools, and

things like tape, wire, etc to do a small repair, or to remove an offending

part. I never went anywhere with the car or plane w/o a small toolbox

for emergencies. There were those few times when it became a lifesaver.

Uncle Bob

 

[GarageEnvy]

Yep. I've become complacent with that Camry. The thing is so dependable normally that I don't carry tools and parts for it. I question the T-stat thing. It did get hot going up a steep hill with a load. However, the short drive from there into Lake Tahoe the temp gauge read normal. In fact, after the repair and through the whole drive into Reno it read normal and smelled normal.

I don't want to get too focused on the repair shop. The T-stat, O-ring and hose clamps may or may not have been BS. That is $15 in parts. I'm the kind of person who always looks back on his decisions to see if there were other options or better alternatives and choices. I thought about removing the T-stat on it but it's not quite as easy as my old 350 Chevy. It's a little awkward to get at for a roadside deal.

While I was on the side of the road waiting for it to cool I looked at Google to see the road and spot where I was. It was clear that I had made it to with 1/4 mile of the top of the hill so I felt better about leaving the T-stat in. Thanks for mentioning that though.

Oh, and 45 minutes on the side of the road in a large turnout and not one person stopped. I don't know what they could have done but still, I was a little surprised.

 

[rwhite692]

FWIW, when you want to try (emphasis on TRY) to repair plastic radiator tanks, in my experience you will have limited success with JB weld. JB is wonderful stuff but it does not chemically bond with plastic, ie, it does not contain strong solvents that melt into the plastic and make it become fuzed with itself. it only forms a mechanical bond.

What you want to use is Plastic Welder (available from Devcon) and similar that are made specifically for plastics.

 

[bazzateer]

overheats on the last hill to Lake Tahoe. I wait for it to cool and leave the electric fans running enough to help but not enough to drain the battery. I don't attempt to open the radiator. When cool I head the rest of the way into destination.

No attempt to top up the rad' before driving? Asking for trouble in my book. But, as others have said, not cheap but it saved the holiday for you and yours.

 

[Kirkvkid]

I like to go over the game footage of recent decisions as well. As you said, not because of the money but to reassure yourself you took the smart choice and to learn something for next time. Can't know where we are going if we dont know where we have been!

What is your and your familes time worth? Probably a heck of alot more than what you may have overpaid. You saved the day, you saved the head, saved your reservations, and it sounds to me like you were able to afford the repair without too much financial hardship.

Honestly, I dont know if i would have even thought of the JB Weld (or plastic weld) So i say kudos. Being you had reservations to keep, I think you made the most logical choices with what options were available to you.

Also, i'm not a mechanic, but if i need to pull a rad hose.. i change the t-stat. cheap insurance i always figured.

 

[A1an]

Given the circumstances
Would you have insisted on a work order and authorization before more work was done?
Insisted on not paying for work that he couldn't produce proof he performed?
Done something different to fix the problem?
Handled the roadside repair different?

As far as the fix goes, given the circumstances I would have gone the same route. Sounds like the guy may have gouged you a little bit on the fix but he got you in and on the road in the same day...something you don't always get unless you prearranging the repair work.

For the work order and authorization part of the issue...it is a tough call. Part of me would say to light the guy up for charging me without authorization of repair and not even producing the supposed failed part. On the other hand, you are on vacation and if you press hard in the wrong way the guy can refuse to release your car back to you until payment is made in full. It could take days to get that resolved taking away from time with your family.

 

[snorky18]

Me and wife in the car: I'd limp to town, buy a radiator, and coolant (might even spring for the premixed since NAPA doesn't sell distilled water, and I'm on vaca), and replace it on the spot with a cheap socket set that lives in my trunk.

Add kids to the passenger list, and assuming summer temps in Alabama: I'd think about trying to drop them somewhere with A/C and somewhat entertaining. Library, bookstore, theater, & shopping mall come to mind if available, then do the repair myself.

Really though, if you only "wasted" $100-150 over what the job would have cost to have done under normal circumstances, and it kept your vacation on track, I'd rejoice that the experience was that cheap. That's cheaper than 3 theme park tickets for a day.

 

[LutzTD]

I just had a flat tire on my trailer on the road trip to and from Ohio. Tire blew out and threw the tread. I put on my spare and at my next gas stop there was a tire store. I pulled in and asked for a trailer tire and they did not have one but had one of their guys already at the tire store 1/2 hour away that they called and got the tire while he was there. they quoted me $160 so I said go ahead and handed him the shredded tire and wheel. 2-1/2 hours later the guy finally showed up and then they charged me $210. So I guess for a shop along the highway the 33% overage is pretty common. I didnt want to drive without a spare, so I paid it and moved on.........

 

[RKA]

Eveybody is a little different, but I guess the question is how much do you value your vacation time and how quickly can you errode your family's patience trying to save a buck and derail the vacation. Even if the schedule is not substantially altered, once people get a sour taste in their mouths, it's hard to reset the clock. All depends on the personalities involved.

For me, there is no question. I'm not fixing it roadside unless there is no other option. If I get ripped, I'll take the blame and next time think about renting a (newer) car or doing more maintenance to ensure the vacation doesn't get derailed. The bottom line is that vacation is precious to me and something I get once every few years. I just don't want to set up another series of unintended events to try to save a few pennies. My opportunity to save those pennies was when I planned the vacation and that decision is behind me and can not be undone.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Bazzateer,

I can see where I was a little unclear. When it first overheated, I didn't open the radiator while hot to relieve pressure. The reservoir clearly was full (above the full line) so I knew the pressure was high enough to allow fluid in. When it cooled, I did check the level in the radiator. Fortunately I lost less than 16 ounces of water and we had water bottles with us. I've always figured opening a hot radiator was far more dangerous (even slowly) than waiting. Once in Lake Tahoe I did recheck all fluids.

I've asked myself what kind of additional maintenance I could have done but really I thought the car was good to go. All fluids were checked and recently changed. Radiator was 2 years old. Waterpump, timing belt, thermostat, front axles were all 8 months old. As far as prepping the car or maintenance I don't think I would have done anything differently.

Thanks for the tip on Devcon. I didn't know about it. When I got to the radiator shop there was a hairline crack in the JB weld with a very small amount of moisture seeping out. The only thing I had to rough up the surface for the patch was my wife's nail file and I had to apply the mix with a plastic fork from Taco Bell. Perhaps it's the nature of JB weld or the application but it was starting to fail. I don't know if the expansion and contraction of running and then letting it cool down expedited the fatigue on the patch but it certainly looked like it might fail.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

I've gone by that turn-off on 395 to Bodie many times - never saw it. Heard that the road was bad, though.

I've got a different mid-set about money when it gets to vacation time. I don't worry about it. Whatever it costs, that's what it costs. I want to enjoy the vacation, not worry about money. I'll worry about the bills later.
Don't sweat the $400. You did more than I would have done. I probably would have gone to a car dealer on the spot and traded it in. Had a car burn up on me in Vegas once...but that's another story.

 

[tuner4life]

I have a 1993 camry as my DD, (great cars btw), and I would have just changed the radiator myself. It is super easy on that car and the parts store that you got the JB weld at most likely had one in stock. I would never go out of town without at least a small collection of tools with me. That alone has saved my **** on several ocassions. (For example: my wife thought it was ridiculous that I had a heavy hammer that I kept in the car's tool box, but she totally got it as she watched me beat that bent steelie back straight after we hit a huge pothole some 7 hours from home. Somehow the tire still held air.)

Not criticizing what you did. You did what you thought you needed to, but a little preplanning goes a long way when taking road trips. Be a pessimist, imagine every possible way that something could go wrong, then you will be prepared for almost anything next time.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Krash,
We actually went into Bodie from the south and out on the "main" road. The south road is far less traveled and about 6 miles are unpaved washboard. 15-20mph in a loaded Camry was a comfortable speed. The "main" road in and out is only about 3 miles unpaved and 30 in most sections was comfortable.

Tuner,
North Lake Tahoe is not exactly mecca for auto parts on a Sunday afternoon. I found one parts store in Kings Beach. They didn't have one. There was a NAPA in Tahoe City that I could have reached by bus. Neither had one in stock but both thought they could have one in by Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning. NAPA Reno had one in stock but by that time I had resolved to have it done. You are right though, that's an easy radiator to change. It's the only thing that tempted me to pick one up and chance the patch.

The tool kit is in the making. Translation, horse has left the barn, I'm now shutting the door.

 

[hosz]

Is this what happened to you?

 

[dirttracker18]

I got hosed in Superior WI once when a tie rod started slipping (someone must have stripped it previous).

Only place open on Sunday and $400 later I could hear home.

Since then I have a tool kit just for trips. Had there been any extra time I would have limped it to the track in Proctor and borrowed what I needed.

It ***** when a guy takes advantage of a situation. Honesty seems to be becoming a lost art, second to profit

 

[henrysgarage]

I think you did the correct thing by having it repaired the same day and getting on with your vacation. While in FL one winter my exhaust manifold cracked and I went to a few shops and had estimates to replace it. At home I would have done it myself (I do carry a tool box) but if I broke something we would be stranded until I got it fixed(or towed into town to a shop) so I paid to have it done, and paid about 150 more than the estimate, but that is another story.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I also do 90% of my own repairs - usually anything short of a/c work or stuff where deep diagnostics with the aid of scan tool is needed to go deeper than just reading codes.
That said, I will also sometimes pay for convenience for some stuff that I could do and will do my best to NOT fool with a vehicle very much during a vacation. Just had this sort of situation happen (power steering problems on our old Chevy Tahoe - asked guys here on another thread about it) I knew I could limp it home and there's a factor of the failed pump being warrantied by the shop I had install it when I ran out of time to deal with it prior to the vacation......It quit on the way to our vacation spot, so I limped there and parked the truck. I rented a car for the vacation week and put it out of my mind till I got back on the road home -- no way I was gonna let automotive hassles screw up my week trying to fix it myself in a parking lot or taking to a shop I don't know.....of course every situation is different - I have done some emergency roadside fix's to get home back when I was young / broke and had no choice.
In the OP's spot, I would have done the same thing.

 

[Squankum]

I drive cars older than yours. I'm a big fan of preventive maintenance, changing possible trouble items on my schedule rather than theirs. I include radiators on that program, but... you already changed yours!

Am I the only one that finds it weird that a radiator end tank is cracking at the 2 year mark? Is this the new normal with things made fast and cheap in China?

Could this be a symptom of a head gasket issue? It was certainly a full load and a lot of big hills. Should he get it pressure tested?

 

[tuner4life]

Could this be a symptom of a head gasket issue? It was certainly a full load and a lot of big hills. Should he get it pressure tested?

The radiators in those (especially the aftermarket replacements) are Pretty brittle. I have seen really cheap new ones develop cracks under the cap just from the pressure used to install the cap. It's really not uncommon at all.

Wouldn't hurt to get pressure checked, but probably is just the radiator.