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Hanging a Chain Hoist from Truss? Thoughts?

tulsa

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I am trying to figure out what would be best for doing this. My neighbor has same style truss and has beefed them up and hangs a chain hoist. He has lifted much heavier than I will.

I will likely be lifting about 500 lbs.

He sandwhiched the truss with plywood and screwed it all together. I am thinking of using 2x4 running the lower, and then some going up the upper connections. I would hang the hoist where the two 2x4 attach to the lower beam.


What do you all think? Can you share how you have done this? Here is a few pictures of my Truss.
 

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headwrench

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i would run an 8 or 10 ft 4x6 perpendicular across the trusses. that way you spread the load on several trusses. thats what i did & never had any problems. i pulled racecar motors & trans as one unit. always worked well. hope this helps. good luck
 

readhead

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Of course the answer is no. The bottom cord is in tension and is not designed to carry any load but maybe some drywall. But obviously people do it. It will work until it falls down. Good luck.
 

theoldwizard1

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Triple up the bottom chord for about 10' wider than the vehicle. Then attach a pair 6x6 under this "beam" using a Simpson Strong Tie BC6.
 

jwh

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NO WAY! If it was a stick built roof I'd still say no.

What could possibly go wrong??

EVERYTHING!

John

Edit: Told my wife about this thread. She said to make sure your life insurance is paid up!
 
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RWorth

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What are you trying to lift? There are a lot of ways to lift depending on what you are trying to do.

If you have to use the truss , I would think it would be stronger if you tied to the peak.
 

CrashmanS

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I've done it spread across many trusses. But it was also 16 in Center, so I was across probably 5 or so.

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southalabama

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Be sure to say "look at this" before you do it and film it. Maybe the YouTube video will go viral.

We've done it on 16" centers and used a long board to spread the weight over a bunch of them.

This will end badly.
 

Dr Stan

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I can only agree with all the others who are telling you its a Darwin Award in the making.

Build, buy, or borrow an A frame for this job.
 

RocketScott

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If you spread the load between two trusses you should be fine lifting 500 lbs. If you use an I beam you could get a trolley and have a little more range.

I have an I beam across my shop that lines up with my tailgate. Makes hoisting the generator or compressor out much easier.




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RVDan

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I used to do that all the time before I knew better.

Never had an incident, but don't do it.

I have a second floor there now, so I use the floor joists instead.
 

matt_i

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Here is what I would do.

Id screw a 2x10 to the bottom chord of the truss each side, about 12' long.

I'd procure some 2" square tubing, 1/4" wall, that's long enough to span from floor to the underside of the bottom chord. Could also be 2" Sch 40 black pipe.

I'd weld a "U" shaped cup to the top end of the tube, width to match the 3 thicknesses of 2x material created above.

I'd weld a flat plate and a nut to the bottom end of the tube. Then install a swivel leveling mount with integral stud.

When its time to use the hoist, get out the posts and use the stud on the leveling foot to just touch the U-cup to the bottom of the truss so the column won't fall over. Repeat left and right.

Now use your hoist with confidence. Put the tubular columns away when finished.
 
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n20junkie

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That truss system is barely capable of holding up roof and ceiling. Thinking your going to screw some plywood to a truss then lift 500+ lbs off of it is foolish, and dangerous. Get a cherry picker or hoist gantry, but don't think your going to hang a hoist off that truss without major regrets down the road.
 

469 runner

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By the time you add all the reinforcements those trusses would need, you could afford a very nice cherry picker or A-frame gantry crane.
 

rmalkow2

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Tulsa,
I understand the concerns of those saying NO. But just to say NO without any explanation is not very useful. Please recognize this is a structural engineering question that you've posed. To understand the NO, you need to do some easy research as to the WHY.

For starters:
Trusses are widely used to serve two main functions:
1. To carry the roof load
2. To provide horizontal stability.

A truss is essentially a triangulated system of (usually) straight interconnected structural elements; it is sometimes also referred to as an open web girder. The individual elements are connected at nodes; the connections are often assumed to be nominally pinned. The external forces applied to the system and the reactions at the supports are generally applied at the nodes. When all the members and applied forces are in a same plane, the system is a plane or 2D truss.

I copied the above quickly from some very useful web sites and you can search for truss construction and read them too for deeper understanding.

Your trusses for this type of building are only designed to handle loads from the roof above pushing down on the truss as a complete structure. The truss handles both compression and tension forces caused by the loading of the roof above. If you add additional forces on the bottom member by adding a hoist you are increasing tension force on that bottom member at a localized point even if you try to spread out that additional load. From your pictures I see that the bottom truss member is also not one solid piece but rather spliced with a typical joint plate. This is adequate considering the overall design of the truss and the intended direction of load. Not good at all if you intend to pull down from below.

The closest correct answer to what you want to create was from matt_i which in effect takes the extra load away from the truss itself and creates a structural overhead beam supported by two columns that transfer the load directly to the foundation/floor.
If you cannot simply purchase the typical lifting equipment (engine hoist etc) then I would suggest you just leave the trusses completely alone and build yourself an overhead structural beam supported by suitable columns and hang your hoist from that. This could be a permanently installed design or one as matt_i suggested, that can be taken apart for storage when not in use. but make it free standing and properly designed to support your expected loads plus a safety margin.
I'm sure various designs are available online and possibly in this forum.

So I could have just chimed in and said NO but, I hope this makes you think it through more and do some additional research before making any changes to your shop.
 

Showkey

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Succuss stories like......."I've never had a problem"

As for the success stories and with many things in garage they are..........anecdotal........

Definition for those confused:

Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method.

Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[3] Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence.[4] Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical. Compare with hasty generalization.
 
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stioc

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I've had garage storage rack mounted to the rafters which was rated to hold 500+lbs, I've seen people lifting/storing pickup topper shells up (about 200lbs)- if you reinforce it and spread the load across many truss members and the wood isn't rotted out etc it should be fine. However, for less than $200 you can pick up a 2-ton engine hoist (it's what I did) which is not only safer, can be used to not only lift vertically up but also move around the load. I've seen people moving lathes etc with the engine hoist so a more practical tool to have around.
 
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bulletpruf

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Here's what I threw together with some free lumber (cast off stuff at work) and an inexpensive chain fall from Amazon -

Scene of the crime -
IMG_4484_zpsimhdsooi.jpg

I don't need no stinkin' pickup!

14430c72-2b64-425d-aef3-7d3af92e8706_zpshjprg2t3.jpg

90% done.
IMG_4494_zpsdhdao5oa.jpg

Way overbuilt for the little rinky-dink all aluminum Alfa engine and trans.

IMG_4530_zpslca64fvi.jpg

And when the job is done, takes 10 minutes to unscrew all the screws holding it together. Stack against the wall. Re-assembly takes about 10 minutes, too.

IMG_4538_zpsv9yschvg.jpg
 

MoonRise

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Short answer : No.

Slightly longer answer : Hell, NO!

Longer answer : No. Borrow, buy, or build an appropriate lifting device. Engine hoist (aka 'cherry picker') or gantry-type hoist would be two first picks.

Without a rather complete engineering analysis of the exact truss and the loads involved, both static and dynamic and distributed loads and 'point' loads, there is no real way of knowing for sure if the roof truss system currently in place is adequate and safe for what you are proposing.

But, most likely the existing roof truss system is NOT adequate to point load a 500 lb load in the middle of the span. Trying to jerry rig up some sort of load distribution framework would just make such a set up maybe a bit less unsafe.

About $200 or so and you can go buy a new 2 ton rated engine hoist (2 ton rated at the shortest boom extension, yes, but still it can lift 2 tons! ).
 

brownbagg

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when ever we hang refrigerator unit like in a grocery store on metal trusses we have to hang off the top chord, nothing get hang off the bottom chord. and these trusses are design for the extra weight. not even light weight duct work
 

ford fanatic

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We did it with trusses 16" on center, used a digging bar to span 4 or 5 trusses and pulled many motors that way. No problems.

A lot of people use crawl spaces in their attics to store things, weight is on top pushing down, this is no different...
 

readhead

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Can we just have these threads deleted when they start. There are the pros that understand truss's that say no vs the " I've done it a million times with no problem" crowd. I've seen truss failures and it's not pretty. But of course the "no problem" bunch will not report when their roof falls down.
 

forAK

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Can we just have these threads deleted when they start. There are the pros that understand truss's that say no vs the " I've done it a million times with no problem" crowd. I've seen truss failures and it's not pretty. But of course the "no problem" bunch will not report when their roof falls down.

What a crock. Throw up some pictures of said failures. Google them. Do you really think or any of the other "sky is gonna fall" crowd think that you are saving a life? Why isn't it posted on tv commercials as a PSA to let people know - don't hang anything from your truss! There's more people hanging **** off their trusses than truss failures. Why do they sell ceiling shelf kits in all home stores? Could you imagine the liability? Wowza! All of these homes that have structural damage from hanging **** off the trusses! I would never buy a used house again! Engineers are everywhere! Thank freak'in God for secondary education. Mankind wouldn't be around anymore!

The 2 stickies needed - 1) PVC airlines 2) can I hang anything off my truss.....

Flame away!
 

ford fanatic

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What a crock. Throw up some pictures of said failures. Google them. Do you really think or any of the other "sky is gonna fall" crowd think that you are saving a life? Why isn't it posted on tv commercials as a PSA to let people know - don't hang anything from your truss! There's more people hanging **** off their trusses than truss failures. Why do they sell ceiling shelf kits in all home stores? Could you imagine the liability? Wowza! All of these homes that have structural damage from hanging **** off the trusses! I would never buy a used house again! Engineers are everywhere! Thank freak'in God for secondary education. Mankind wouldn't be around anymore!

The 2 stickies needed - 1) PVC airlines 2) can I hang anything off my truss.....

Flame away!

I agree, I know I have probably 500lbs of garage doors/openers hanging from the ceiling when they're all up...:dunno:
 

bczygan

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This is a standard thread here on GJ.

Can you hang stuff off your trusses?

Sure!

How much?

Well now, THAT is the crux of the matter.

Structures are engineered to make them safe within an envelope of conditions.

Structural damage and even failures can occur when the envelope is exceeded.

Even though wood is graded, it has variability. So does construction methods.

And other forces like wind, snow and earthquakes also demand that we add factors of safety into the calculations.
Plus, for finished spaces, we make structure stiffer, so drywall ceilings don't deflect too much, causing cracking at joints, and nail pops.

So while many trusses and roof systems aren't specifically designed to handle additional loads, there are safety factors build into our structures, that can be used.

2 things concern me when you do this.

One is that you are using up some of the safety factor, and it is there for a reason. Damage and failures usually occur because of a combination of factors, an accident chain. Using up some of the safety margin just makes that combination a little more possible when combined with other causal ingredients.

The second is that you just don't know what capacity you have.

That is the whole point of engineering in the first place, to KNOW what the capability is, and where you will exceed it.

So you trial and error guys, go ahead. You may or may not have a problem. And the problem may just be some drywall ceiling cracks developing. Or if you put a point load in the wrong place, and it is sufficient, you could have a failure.

The point is, you don't know until you do the calculations.

There is one other method you might try.

Do your modification. Then load it to failure. Now you know where the failure point is, and you can avoid it in the future.

BTW, the example of the hanging racks sold for overhead storage.....The fasteners would pull out or the racks fail before the structure would.

Bill
 
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bczygan

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I am trying to figure out what would be best for doing this. My neighbor has same style truss and has beefed them up and hangs a chain hoist. He has lifted much heavier than I will.

I will likely be lifting about 500 lbs.

He sandwhiched the truss with plywood and screwed it all together. I am thinking of using 2x4 running the lower, and then some going up the upper connections. I would hang the hoist where the two 2x4 attach to the lower beam.


What do you all think? Can you share how you have done this? Here is a few pictures of my Truss.

The first thing to do is to find out if the trusses are designed to carry any additional load.

Then, if you must have the roof structure support this load, then spread the point load out as much as possible.

My suggestion is to use a different solution.

Run a bean across a couple of trusses. Make it long enough to straddle what you want to lift and also longer than the truss to truss spacing. Make it strong enough to support the point load of the heaviest thing you want to lift plus a safety margin. Fasten it to the trusses so it won;t move side to side.

Now, here is the important part. Get two columns that can be installed under the ends of this beam, when you need to lift something.

This way you are NOT using the trusses to lift a load, but rather the columns and beam. The trusses are just providing some small lateral support.

Now, you still need to engineer the beam and columns and the connections for the loads you intend to lift. And you have to set up the columns whenever you need to use it.

Sound good?

Bill
 

RocketScott

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The amount of mental ************ in this thread is pretty incredible.

500 lbs is not very much weight, all things considered. I'd say the two guys I frame houses with and myself exceed that on a regular basis when we stand in one place in the roof. Not to mention all the things that get stocked on the trusses in one place.

8fd01cf4eedcbd94639215bb893b7fca.jpg


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Schurkey

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Thousands and thousands of years ago, my buddies and I were in high-school. We dicked with cars a lot. One of my buddies had...neglectful...parents; and a 2 1/2 car garage.

He threw some random automotive driveshaft crossways across the rafters, chained a pulley system to it, and we yanked--and installed--a heaping pile of engines, sometimes with the transmissions attached (but usually not, as the angle was too steep to get the engine/transmission out of or into the vehicle without lifting the vehicle excessively.)

Guardian Angels, I guess. We never once considered that the rafters were in danger. The garage survived us, and is still defying gravity.
 

RWorth

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Thousands and thousands of years ago, my buddies and I were in high-school. We dicked with cars a lot. One of my buddies had...neglectful...parents; and a 2 1/2 car garage.

He threw some random automotive driveshaft crossways across the rafters, chained a pulley system to it, and we yanked--and installed--a heaping pile of engines, sometimes with the transmissions attached (but usually not, as the angle was too steep to get the engine/transmission out of or into the vehicle without lifting the vehicle excessively.)

Guardian Angels, I guess. We never once considered that the rafters were in danger. The garage survived us, and is still defying gravity.

we were far more sophisticated than you , our first engine hoist was a pine tree branch in the middle of the back yard. I'd say it was about 4" in diameter. Tree is still there 50 years later, I'll have to go and see if the branch survived.:D
 

G-Body

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How much are you willing to risk? I have lifted motors with garage rafters and trusses. I have never broken one yet... I prefer to use the engine hoist but it happens. Of course I also know someone who broke at least half a dozen rafters in one garage doing the same thing. I couldn't believe he didn't stop after the first time or two. He never collapsed the roof on himself but you should have seen how much plywood was in the attic reinforcing broken roof supports. How lucky do you feel? I'm sure I will lift off the roof again in my life but it's a calculated risk.
 

bczygan

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How much are you willing to risk? I have lifted motors with garage rafters and trusses. I have never broken one yet... I prefer to use the engine hoist but it happens. Of course I also know someone who broke at least half a dozen rafters in one garage doing the same thing. I couldn't believe he didn't stop after the first time or two. He never collapsed the roof on himself but you should have seen how much plywood was in the attic reinforcing broken roof supports. How lucky do you feel? I'm sure I will lift off the roof again in my life but it's a calculated risk.

What a funny phrase!

It is NOT a calculated risk.....unless you DO the calculations!

The phrase should be, "It's an uncalculated risk!"

Bill
 

G-Body

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True that was a poor choice of words. I should probably add that when I lifted an engine with the roof I was using a rafter based system that had oversized ceiling joists. I still checked the span ratings for the 2x6 joists...and then put a pipe support in to cut the span in half. The only time I used a truss based system to lift anything it was less than 200 lbs and since I had already walked on that portion of the truss I wasn't too worried. I can't imagine a truss manufacturer would design a truss that could not support someone walking on the bottom cord and I was not lifting any more weight than the average American weighs.
 
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