hanging cabinets on concrete?

[cudacharlie]

Hi -

I'm about to hang a row (8) of upper cabinets (24w x 30h x 13d) along the back wall of my garage. The back wall is made from 12" thick cinderblocks filled with concrete.

I'm planning on mounting 2x4 studs horizontally, the same length as the cabinets, to the wall first, and then attaching the "ez-mount" business for the cabinets to these studs. This will stand the cabinets off the wall and give me a nice recess along the bottom edge to tuck slimline lamps in.

On each 8' horizontal mounting stud there will hang 4 cabinets weighing no more than 150-200 lbs each, for a total weight per stud of ~800 lbs.

Question is: What is the correct fastener to use, and how many?

What I'm holding in my hand is a 1/2" carbide tipped masonry bit with 1/4" shank...

a box of 1/4" SHORT lag shields...

and a bunch of 1/4" hexhead lag bolts.

(I also have 2 1/2" lag bolts and 1/4" LONG lag shields, if I need either...)

I was about to drill the 1/2" holes at 1 1/2" deep, and use the SHORT lag shields with the 2 1/2" lag bolts. I would use three or four of these for each 8' stud holding 800 lbs.

Does this sound right? Or should I use LONG lag shields and bolts, and maybe only need two or three per 800 lb bar? Is this overkill or underkill? Is there maybe a smaller fastener that would leave a smaller mark if it were removed? Can the bolt be removed and re-inserted in a lag shield, or is it a one-shot deal? Lastly, do I need a hammer-drill or is my corded 3/8 drill ok?



Most importantly, I won't crack my wall with the masonry bit will I?

 

[rinho]

My opinion is that 1 1/2" deep is not enough.
I think I would drill 3" or 4", with at least one hole per cabinet (if the lag shield is rated for the weight)
What's important here is the tear strength; You can drill at 1/3", but 3" or 4" deep.

All this depend on the most important thing, the quality of the hole.
Use a good hammer-drill, to avoid widened hole due to the 15 minutes/holes you have to hold the drill.
Dust clean the holes before putting the lag shield

I can't see (and don't know this product), what kind of lag shield is it ?

 

[rodnok1]

I use Tapcon scews, drill a hole and put the screw in. They come in variety of sizes/lengths. I put a bunch of cabinets up using them. Alot of the cabinets didn't have backs so I put OSB for a back and just drilled through it. I second the hammer drill and making the hole correct size/depth regardless of fastener. Go slow or you'll wear the bits out quickly, then they are no fun to do.

 

[rinho]

With concrete, you kill the bit if you push too strong on the hammer drill (or too fast)... you just have to hold it, the hammer function is doing the job.
I was using this one and drilling the concrete as fast as if I was drilling wood, without hi rpm

 

[IDASHO]

Personally, Id much rather mount a couple of 2x6's to the wall using a masonry drill and concrete wedge anchors, then mount the cabinets to the 2x6's using high grade screws.

 

[PAToyota]

The information given on concrete anchors is good, but you might want to use french cleats to install the cabinets - see here: http://www.newwoodworker.com/frenchcleat.html

Nice advantage is that you can move cabinets around if you change your mind. You'd basically do what you are saying with mounting the 2x to the wall with the masonry anchors, but this would take the place of screwing or fastening the cabinets to the 2x.

 

[ultgar]

Hi -


Question is: What is the correct fastener to use, and how many?

What I'm holding in my hand is a 1/2" carbide tipped masonry bit with 1/4" shank...

a box of 1/4" SHORT lag shields...

and a bunch of 1/4" hexhead lag bolts.

:

I sell and use these Spax washer head screws (yellow zinc for indoor applications and green High Corrosion Resistant ones for wet and outdoor apps). These are a true grade 5 and the washer head provides plenty of bearing surface to pull the cabinet tight to the wall. At 30 cents each, they're probably cheaper than what Home Depot gets for the grade 3 Chinese lags. Note - the ones pictured below are 1/4" x 2 1/2" with a T30 torx drive. Shear strength is 750 lbs.

 

[wrigh003]

Just a thought- if he uses a cleat on the back of his cabinet, that's 1.5" the cabinets are spaced out from the wall (assuming a dimensional 2x cleat of some kind). So a 2.5" screw would then only be 1" into the concrete, and less if he's got a 1/4" cabinet back to consider. That means on a block wall that he's only using the cinderblock to hang things in. Seems to me that if he's got concrete filled block walls, might as well go an inch or so deeper and get some grip on that interior concrete fill.

That's what I'd do. Or do the french cleat thing and go nuts on screwing the mounting cleat to the wall, then do the same for the cabinet half.

 

[Vicegrip]

Another method that I like to use is to glue the cleat to the cinderblock. Adhesives like liquid nails mounting wood to cinderblock make a very strong mount. None of the standard anchor systems work real well in cinderblock because cinderblock is soft compared to concrete. The cinderblock can give under shock loads and the fastener loosen. On the other hand it is rough and porous and takes glue like Liquid nails very well. Mark the walls then hammer some cut nails in the wood. Slobber the mounting strips with a good thick coat of adhesive press in place and pull back to check for a good transfer and contact then hammer the cut cement nails in to hold. Wait a couple days before mounting the cabinets. No drilling, no dust and no messed up holes hitting a hollow where you needed one most.

 

[RMF]

I used 3/8" lead anchors set with a flush-set tool made by Greenlee available at most electrical supply stores. The set tool will run you about $20 and the lead anchors about $8-$10, but they are well worth it. I am an electrician in the trade 15 years and have never had one come out when set tight. The tool is designed to mushroom the anchor into the concrete from the back forward.They are also available in 1/4" although this requires a separate set tool. The steel wall cabinets that I have weigh in at about 25 pounds apeice and I have them stuffed with engine parts. In one of them I have a set of 354 Hemi heads which wiegh about 70 pounds apeice.
As for a neat method of hanging metal objects from block walls, try 5/8" Uni-Strut available at electrical supply houses. The electrical panels where I work are in basements which get very wet at times. The panels were rusting out on the back side, so we stepped them off the walls using the uni-strut and we haven't had a problem since.

 

[Kevin54]

Whatever you do....DO NOT lag the block. Lag the mortar joint. If you lag a block you stand a chance of weakening it and busting part of it out.

Kevin