hanging furnaces

[volaredon]

I have a 30X36 detatched garage that to this point is not heated
(well unless you count the 100K salamander that I can barely afford to keep fed with kerosene)

I have here (2) modine style (not modine brand) nat gas hanging heaters
one 65K the other 45K BTU. I need to dig a trench from the house to the garage (only 10 feet between garage and house) for the gas pipe I wish I'd have laid one when I dug for the electric when the slab was dug and poured;
but I didn't so gotta backtrack.

I have a few questions on putting the heater up

I have a 10' ceiling but no drywall the joists and attic are exposed; I do have a partial subfloor up there for sake of walking up there and storage
I will be taking some of these out and opening up the "air rights" for about 1/4 of the attic for more space above because of the twin post hoist I just bought.
I do plan to hang OSB and box off the area where the lift is so nothing falls thru to the floor from above.
It is totally stick built all studs rafters etc are 16" O.C., with a 6/12 pitch gable roof.
I say all of this so you get an idea the total area I am heating; I definitely know it would be cheaper to heat if I drywalled the ceiling or put a more complete subfloor in but 1. it ain't in the money right now and (2) it's just a garage.

will the 65K btu heater be enough to take the chill off when i am working out there? If I can get 50-55 deg out there when it's 20 outside (Chicago area) that will be plenty NOT looking for "T shirt" conditions
thoughts on running both heaters? will it work, etc? That way when it is just "cool" out I can run one and throw the other "booster" on when it gets really cold out my thermostat goes as low as 40* setting; I was thinking of leaving it on all the time as low as I can go and have it still work just to stave off moisture and kick it up just when I am gonna work out there
man have those heater prices gone thru the roof from last year to this year even used! I would like to get rid of both heaters I have and get 1 100-120K BTU heater (or what ever size of a heater would be enough to heat it, alone) but I would have to be able to buy the larger one for what ever amount I could sell the 2 current ones for;

as far as piping goes; black pipe in ground or that yellow jacketed stainless (I think its called "CSST" pipe) I have heard that I would need to run some PVC or something in the ground to then run that CSST inside of. is this correct?

 

[volaredon]

hmmm 109 "looks" and no ideas on any of this?

 

[Milton Shaw]

Use some more fans to bring the heat down, even a 12 foot ceiling is high enough to trap heat that you need down at the floor. My modine style heater does not circulate enough to get the heat down over the shop.

 

[Improved700]

If you use CSST, you will want to have it in PVC conduit, since any movement of the ground from frost, could cause a rock to work on it and cause a leak. I tried it, and ended up redoing it. My run was over 120 feet, so I ended up getting a line made up from the gas company and buried that. Use black pipe and the correct pipe dope. Try to use the fewest fitting, since that is where you will develop leaks.

My shop is 26 X 36, 6 inch insulation in walls, with 12 foot ceilings. I have a 75kBTU house furnace hanging from the ceiling, with ducts to move the air around the space. Heats it up just fine.

Your situation is different due to the exposed ceiling. Why not hang some plastic up on the ceiling joist for the winter. It will help a ton by keeping the heat inside your working space.

Your 65K heater will be fine, so I think you only need to hang one up.

Also, your T-Sat might need to be a analog type. Most digital t-stats will not work below 40 degrees, but I am sure some are. Get a 15 dollar Honeywell from Menards, and hook that up to get you through the winter, and change out next year once you do things permanently.

Good luck with your install. Having heat is the cats ***.
Kev

 

[philjafo]

Hmmm Chicago area, no insulation?

 

[Cougar]

Check with the gas company see how much they would charge to makeup a fuel run.

Put sand in the bottom of the trench, lay the fuel line and cover it with sand.

 

[sr71]

....I use a 75k in a 30x 30 - insulated and finished. I think you're going to need 75k+ for your shop (to be efficient) but if you're only looking to keep he edge off the 65 k will be fine....the bigger issue to worry about in our neck of the woods is major temp swings in the garage .....heating and then allowing the garage to fall to winter temperatures will condense moisture on all metals surfaces = rust. (you probably already experienced this with your salamander) Without insulation you have little chance of escaping this so just be aware of it with your tools etc. I leave my thermostat at 50 all winter and knock it up to 68 when I am working.

 

[LINK74]

How often will you be in this garage? Without wall and ceiling insulation your throwing money away to melt the snow.Your not going to know just how much furnace you will need until you know the needs of the building. I myself quit using ice cold toolson ice cold machines when I crawled out of the driveway, thats why I built my garage. your fuel savings would put a dent in the insulation and drywall cost. Like sr71 said, keep the place stable and avoid the rust attacking everything as well.

 

[volaredon]

As far as insulation goes I do have 1/2 the walls done with OSB used as the sheating rather than drywall. I have the material (insulation and OSB) to finish the rest of the walls; I wasn't gonna do anything with the ceiling, but do plan on completing the subfloor above eventually. which would "box it off" to keep the heat from gravitating into the attic.

the t stat I have is an analog style as was mentioned.
as far as the hanging heater goes; I started w/a 50K and ran across the 65 so I bought it and sold the 50K; not being sure that the 65 would even be enough I bought the 45K at an auction (dont look like it was ever used) it is a "Cayenne" brand more like the Mr heater or the modine "Hot Dawg" design. though it would mean 2 stacks I thought about running both heaters and use one primarily and just kick the 2nd one on when I need the extra boost; though ideally I'd like to find something like an 85-90K that I can use by itself I have a neighbor that wants the 45K unit if I decide not to use it and is offering me what I paid for it... then sell the 65 K on CL or something but man have prices on these things gone crazy even for used units this season vs last year...
a year ago I coulda had a brand new one from grainger dont remember the BTUs but I do remember it was bigger than my 65 for less than I see used units advertised for this year.... IIRC it was like 75 or 80K BTU

there is a guy on CL right now that has an 85K Modine advertised and says he is selling it because it is too big for his garage I E mailed him via CL and proposed a (at least partial) trade for either my 45 or my 65K unit

and yes even without any heat source running I do get some sweating in there; and yes, my tools are looking like scrap, esp my air tools due to rust as a result; that is why i was thinking of keeping it on (though barely) at the low end of the range to keep it warm enough in there to prevent that. and then just turn it up when I am gonna be out there.

 

[volaredon]

I was just at menards asking about CSST; it seems they are a bit cheaper than Lowe's and much cheaper than Ebay... what happened to Ebay? I see alot of times (more and more often) that they want MORE for anything than the stores do!

I was thinkin black pipe directly buried; but i would have to go somewhere besides Menards to buy it as they have only 10' lengths I need 12' from inside the foundation to where the 90 to go up the garage footer/wall would be; so that would mean a ****** and 2 more threaded joints (possible leakpoints) to extend that 10' piece of black pipe;
the idea of CSST appeals better as I can go all teh wya from the tie in under the house to the heater hanging spot with one un spliced piece of pipe.
never thought about asking the gas co; do I hafta get them out here for a look or do I just tell em what I want? I'm guessing I'd ask them for just enuf to get me from inside the house foudation to inside the garage wall or for the whole run from beneath the house all the way up the garage wall and over to where the heater will hang from?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

here's what I think, sell the 45k and buy some insulation especially for the ceiling.
without insulation you don't have a prayer of keeping it warm.........even with 200k.
but with insulation walls and ceiling............the 65k will keep you nice and warm.

 

[fury9]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/for/3338327827.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/app/3333327063.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/for/3337959497.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/3335023289.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/3327438966.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/app/3330265192.html
Maybe one of these will work for ya, all in the Chicagoland area

 

[CNGsaves]

From what I've learned you're asking for future trouble if you install steel black pipe NG underground since it's going to rust and leak, and you personally will be liable when it has explosion!!

Buried plastic yellow pipe is almost certain what the gas company would install with risers at both ends next to each building (this is required code in KS). These risers transition the underground yellow plastic pipe to steel. Required to bury yellow plastic pipe at least 18" below ground and bury with it a Tracer wire so that line can be located. Connection of the buried yellow polyethlene pipe to the steel riser is either FUSED (ie melt the 2 plastic connections together with proper machine) or Stablock which is compression-style physical connection - - - both of these methods when properly done would provide leak-free permanent connection. I sure would recommend you call several plumbers and get round-a-bout quotes and required construction of this buried line, including where needed shutoffs, pressure testing, permit, etc. Not sure if CSST style flexible plastic inside a conduit would be legal, but I'm no plumber.

You haven't mentioned flue for 65K btu Modine NG heater which requires double-wall pipe up through attic and roof extending at least 2 feet above roof (maybe more depending on roof slope and location).

For low budget temporary heat barrier, you could staple thick-mil plastic to ceiling with some wood slats at edges and few across middle. Without this, you're just throwing money away heating the garage.

 

[volaredon]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/for/3338327827.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/app/3333327063.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/for/3337959497.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/3335023289.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/3327438966.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/app/3330265192.html
Maybe one of these will work for ya, all in the Chicagoland area

yeah I have looked at several on CL and am debating selling these 2 I have; I do have a neighbor that wants the 45K unit if I don't wind up using it... thanks for looking.

on direct burying blacl pipe it was done like that for years I only gotta go 10 feet underground but I am looking at that stainless CSST corrugated stainless but I gotta bury it within PVC cant direct bury that stuff either

hey couldnt help notice your screen name do you own a Plymouth fury? I DO! it's a 78 2 door (last year for a 2 door Fury!) 50K orig miles I am 2nd owner same body style as Rosco's cop car in Dukes of hazzard

did the Long haul of Hot Rod Power Tour in it in 09 from madison WI to bristol TN it was cool did the whole tour by way of campgrounds mostly KOA's screw the motels...


ok now back on topic I appreciate the help

 

[volaredon]

From what I've learned you're asking for future trouble if you install steel black pipe NG underground since it's going to rust and leak, and you personally will be liable when it has explosion!!

Buried plastic yellow pipe is almost certain what the gas company would install with risers at both ends next to each building (this is required code in KS). These risers transition the underground yellow plastic pipe to steel. Required to bury yellow plastic pipe at least 18" below ground and bury with it a Tracer wire so that line can be located. Connection of the buried yellow polyethlene pipe to the steel riser is either FUSED (ie melt the 2 plastic connections together with proper machine) or Stablock which is compression-style physical connection - - - both of these methods when properly done would provide leak-free permanent connection. I sure would recommend you call several plumbers and get round-a-bout quotes and required construction of this buried line, including where needed shutoffs, pressure testing, permit, etc. Not sure if CSST style flexible plastic inside a conduit would be legal, but I'm no plumber.

You haven't mentioned flue for 65K btu Modine NG heater which requires double-wall pipe up through attic and roof extending at least 2 feet above roof (maybe more depending on roof slope and location).

For low budget temporary heat barrier, you could staple thick-mil plastic to ceiling with some wood slats at edges and few across middle. Without this, you're just throwing money away heating the garage.

I have the doublewall for the stack; the only thing lacking in that department at the moment is the flange that goes on the roof under the shingles.
I do plan on plumbing it all myself which ever way I go; I have talked to a couple about that yellow plastic stuff but man I would be even more afraid of it cracking I will go thru the foundation block on the house end of this I only plan on coming "up the side" on the garage side but I definitely need to put the vertical coming outta the ground inside some kind of secondary protective pipe otherwise I'm afraid of lawnmower/weedeater damage; I plan on coming outta the ground only about 8-12" then going thru the wall.

CSST isnt flexible plastic as you say, but corrugated stainless.
I havent done anything yet but ask questions and its reasons like these that I am doing that;

 

[philjafo]

The yellow plastic stuff is what the gas companys use, its made to be buried and uses metal stand pipes. The benefit there is your not putting a hole in the foundation below grade a potential place for water to seep in. I'm sure its been mentioned above but check into permits and codes for buried gas pipe, there are depth requirements and it needs to have a tracer wire so it can be located in the future.

 

[volaredon]

The yellow plastic stuff is what the gas companys use, its made to be buried and uses metal stand pipes. The benefit there is your not putting a hole in the foundation below grade a potential place for water to seep in. I'm sure its been mentioned above but check into permits and codes for buried gas pipe, there are depth requirements and it needs to have a tracer wire so it can be located in the future.

I don't see a choice besides going thru the foundation on the house. my gas stuff is all underneath in the crawlspace....unless I made my tie in right at the meter itself, which is on the wall of the house that faces the garage

as far as puttin a hole in the foundation I did that when I ran my 1-1/2" rigid elec conduit underground and sealed it off with concrete around the pipe

but if there is a better way I am all ears....

About a year ago I answered a CL ad that I thought was for the stainless corrugated stuff but wound up being a left over half roll of the plastic stuff from a seller that did the same as I plan to do, which was to run nat gas from his home to detached garage (though his run was quite a bit longer for teh underground portion than my 10 feet)
When I saw it wasnt the corrugated stainless stuff I thought the ad was for I walked
that plastic stuff just seems so flimsy/ chincey it don't appear durable enough to me but then again that's why i am asking so much "now"

 

[dave67fd]

here's what I think, sell the 45k and buy some insulation especially for the ceiling.
without insulation you don't have a prayer of keeping it warm.........even with 200k.
but with insulation walls and ceiling............the 65k will keep you nice and warm.

I couln't have said it better myself.

OSB is not insulation and does little to nothing at holding in your heat.
Insulate before anything.

Unless your town doesn't require a permit, which i doubt, Leave the gas piping to the experts or until you become one.

 

[e-tek]

here's what I think, sell the 45k and buy some insulation especially for the ceiling.
without insulation you don't have a prayer of keeping it warm.........even with 200k.
but with insulation walls and ceiling............the 65k will keep you nice and warm.

Great idea for sure.

My 45K Modine-type keeps my 1000sf x 11ft high finished shop toastee. I keep it at 7C/46F all the time and 12C/56F when working. Doesn't seem to cost too much either.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Great idea for sure.

My 45K Modine-type keeps my 1000sf x 11ft high finished shop toastee. I keep it at 7C/46F all the time and 12C/56F when working. Doesn't seem to cost too much either.

see perfect example

 

[danski0224]

The yellow plastic stuff is what the gas companys use, its made to be buried and uses metal stand pipes.

The riser pieces are sleeves that slip over the plastic pipe.

The sleeves are like the metallic liquid-tite flexible conduit, but thicker. There is a tight fitting gasket on the end that gets buried, and the other end has the special compression connector for the plastic gas line and metal pipe threads for your connection. There is no threaded or compression connection underground.

The plastic pipe is UV sensitive and needs to be covered.

As far as CSST goes, it must be properly bonded to your electrical panel. High voltage incidents that would not bother SCH 40 black pipe can blow out a hole in CSST and then you have a gas explosion.

 

[volaredon]

I couln't have said it better myself.

OSB is not insulation and does little to nothing at holding in your heat.
Insulate before anything.

Unless your town doesn't require a permit, which i doubt, Leave the gas piping to the experts or until you become one.

in the portion that I have finished, I DID insulate with fiberglass insulation behind the OSB and plan to finish the rest of the walls the same way; but I wasnt wanting to do anything with the ceiling, but eventually as money allows I do want to completely finish the floor in the attic which effectively would do the same thing as if I drywalled the ceiling. just not gonna get done over night....
as far as permit goes I had to pull one to build the garage but I do live in an unincorporated area as far as needing anything of a permit to put this gas line in;
On the PVC/UV deal there will only be about a foot (max) coming up out of the ground along the footer before I "double 45" it to go thru the wall and up it, to the ceiling.... and at that point turn and run it between 2 ceiling joists about 8 feet over, where it will connect to the heater.I need to get this line run, before I can close that part of the wall in.

 

[volaredon]

I have a line on an 80K modine; I think that is "output" BTU the seller advertised not "input" I believe it's really a 100K unit. my 2, I was talking :input/ "gross" BTU; most list eff. rating and input/output. I havent seen a Modine 80K capacity heater but I know they make a 100 K so that makes sense.
I will ask my neighbor if he wants my 45K still as he told me he'd give me what I bought it for just need to sell the 65K and I'll have the money the guy wants for the larger one.

 

[volaredon]

well I bought the Modine "80K" as I thought that was "output" it is their 100K model.
I then listed the smaller pair I have on CL LATE last nite and man the hits I got on them, I think I sold them too cheap. My neighbor wound up wanting the 45K sized one but I coulda sold that thing 10 times this morning, the 65K I could have sold about 6 times over....
this 100K is physically a lil bigger than I thought it might be... now that I have it and see its size relative to what i have seen being used elsewhere it may well be overkill...

but, considering that there were times that my 100K salamander toasted me out, while other times it was not enough (yeah I know different "kind" of heat) that was how I was judging what I thought I'd need size wise for a hanging furnace in there...

that's OK though because I'd rather have it sized big than to not have enough; and 30 K units are selling on CL these days for just as much as the 100 K I just got
plans are to keep it on its lowest setting so it will keep the moisture dried up in there off the concrete and also my tools which currently don't "like" being out there!
part of that issue is not being able to run a salamander 24/7 when need be I heat the garage to blazes and when i am done then there is NO heat out there.....

 

[Thomas66]

When I built my garage in 1998, I had the gas company drop a line in a trench that I had dug to their specifications. They used a very heavy, for its relative diameter, composite material. It was gray with metal risers at each end. It was nothing like the yellow stuff that that is typically used from the house to the main line.
Last week I had my Modine-45 installed in the addition to the '98 garage. Still in the process of insulating.
The 1998 structure is 32'x 28'. The new addition is 22' x 30' .

 

[KCarGuy]

I have a 75K unit in my 30x25 2 story garage.
The stairway is open and the garage is fully insulated.
The heater has been installed and running for 5 years now.
It warms up the garage quickly and does a great job of keeping the it very comfy.
on a cold day or night, I set for 60 degrees.
And it brings the temp up pretty quick. after that it kicks on for about 10 minutes once or twice an hour.
I ran black pipe until I went through the wall on the house and the garage (detached), then 90'ed down, added a shutoff on each end, and buried a section of the Orange plastic Utility company's Tubing that they use. (a friend had 150 feet of it for some reason).
I ran the CSST yellow inside the HD Orange Tubing and connected to the black pipe (All connections are above ground.)
Then pressure tested for 48 hours.
Once I was Happy, I had some HD Shrink Tubing that was in place on each end and heated that up to seal the Gap between the CSST and the Orange plastic tubing (Not much anyway, it was a tight fit)
Then Finished with sand, gravel and dirt to fill in the trench.
I only noticed an increase of $150 in my Gas Bill for the entire winter season...Chicago winter season!
I am Happy with it!

 

[CNGsaves]

Found details of what RISER is actually used by gas companies here in my area (ie OK and KS) as company name is Lyall in Oklahoma.

It's called Anodeless Riser, which means since it's using buried plastic pipe, it does NOT need an anode. Conversely a steel pipe (ie like a pipeline) does require an anode which is attached to help prevent rusting.

Buried plastic polyethlene pipe is the proper way to go. See picture in Lyall link below how the riser transitions from buried plastic underground to steel above ground.

Using CSST like KCarGuy did inside a conduit of orange plastic might work (orange plastic conduit is actually telco sleeve for fiber optic cable), but I'm pretty sure it's illegal - - - effectively there is continuous steel connection underground that could pickup lightning strike that is NOT grounded. You are taking on great risk if you install underground natural gas in this way. I sure would NOT do buried csst method.

http://rwlyall.com/elog2/pagemasters/fpage_riser_anodeless.html

Research I've done with local wholesaler for plumbing companies shows they sell either 3/4 inch or 1 inch plastic yellow pipe IPS (iron pipe size). Stablock connector is part of the riser itself that sells for $80 and just needs a champhering tool to bevel the plastic pipe where it connects in the Stablock. This is method I'm planning for 20 ft run I need to make from house over to detached garage. Then everything above ground after the riser is whatever blackpipe size you think you need . . . I'll keep it at 1 inch blackpipe going through brick wall of garage and only step down to 1/2 inch near the heater. That way I've got plenty of NG flow for any other future needs in garage.

 

[Steves32]

Trac Pipe PS2 is approved for underground installation.

http://www.tracpipe.com/CSST_Gas_Pipe_Products/PSII_Underground_Gas_Line/

 

[68 Bird]

I just went through a similar situation on my 32 x 48 x 10. I hung dual 75K BTU Sterlings with seperated combustion. (We need to derate up here because of the altitude) I insulated the hell out of the cieling (R43) and found that even on 10 below zero days it stayed at 50-55 degrees with the heaters off and the walls uninsulated. Now she's all buttoned up, walls R19, totally drywalled, for many things I do I need to keep it at 70 to 75 degrees plus I like to work in a T Shirt. On the coldest days those bad boys only fire occasionally. Insulation is king. You can never have too much.

 

[DPelletier]

vapor barrier/poly and insulation is cheap; I would recommend you rethink your decision not to insulate your ceiling before you figure out what you want/need to do for heat. you don't need to drywall or put OSB or plywood on the underside of the trusses in order to insulate the ceiling.

Dave

 

[volaredon]

vapor barrier/poly and insulation is cheap; I would recommend you rethink your decision not to insulate your ceiling before you figure out what you want/need to do for heat. you don't need to drywall or put OSB or plywood on the underside of the trusses in order to insulate the ceiling.

Dave

thanks. I don't have "trusses", as this garage is totally built old fashioned way "stick built" 2X8 rafters, 2X10 ceiling joists etc....

I would have to put drywall/OSB in on the underside of the ceiling unless I had soem kind of self adhesive foam blown up onto the joists/underside of the subflooring (or would I?) If I can retain the insulation within the joists without drywalling/sheating the ceiling, it would look lile ****; certainly worse than the rough/exposed joists do!

I ain't done with this garage yet--- I may still do something on the ceiling... but being it is "just" a detached garage (not living space) I wasnt worried about a ceiling for the sake of "prettying it up" and thought I'd spend my money elsewhere If I could insulate between the rafters without creating a ventilation issue, I may be willing to do that and then not sheat it being this would be in the attic anyway
in the meantime I still gotta work out there and it gets COLD out there in my area

 

[DPelletier]

Well;

- 1st whether it's trusses or ceiling joists, you can still insulate them the same way. Heavy duty poly will hold the batt insulation in place or you could even cut foam to friction fit.

- you mention that it's just a garage so it doesn't need to be pretty but then you say the exposed insulation will look like **** so I'm not sure if how it looks is important to you or not.

- The insulation and vapor barrier isn't just about helping keep it warm, it will prevent moisture damage that will likely ensue by trying to heat the un-insulated garage.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[volaredon]

I didn't put vapor barrier in the walls either on the inside before the OSB on the walls that I have so far insulated, or on the outside of the studs before "that" OSB went up nor between outer OSB and vinyl siding... I D K whn the stuff came out but when I was a kid certainly no one did that stuff (it was available 6 years ago when I built the garage) and not being that familiar with Tyvek at the time (other than the fact that it was available) I didn't put any up. I think at least some of the moisture issue is the concrete which "sweats". I am hoping that putting this hanging unit heater in and keeping it set at a temp above freezing at all times will alleviate that issue (lowest my T stat will allow which is either 40 or 42*F) I do realize that it may cost more to heat til I at least get the walls finished insulated/sheated
one concern I have with sheating/insulating the ceiling is that I also have an I beam here waiting to go up between 2 joists with a trolley to hang a chainfall from; once the lift is located and my garage door openers are put up so I know where I will have room for the I beam; being able to box that in over the I beam so I dont lose all my heat between the 2 joists between which teh I beam will ride.

i wish now that I'd have put floor heat in before I poured the concrete. Other than keeping track of where the piping would have been for when I (finally) put my lift in.... my luck, I'd have drilled thru that when I drilled for the Redheads.... another story! As it is now, I am worried about hitting rebar when I put the hoist up..... now that I have finally gotten one of those recently, too.

As far as looks being just a garage as was mentioned above I personally don't mind the appearance of bare joists but the look of plastic hung on the ceiling, beyond maybe a temporary paint/sandblast booth, looks much worse While I am not gonna finish it like I would say my kitchen, I don't want to make it look stupid either.... so if I am gonna insulate I guess I will then have to sheat the ceiling grrrr I wonder if I just complete the attic subfloor, if I could then have some kind of foam sprayed between the joists and leave the bottom of the joists un sheated
I D K, just thinking out loud here.... either way I will be heating the garage the best I can for at least another year before I can do anything about finishing the insulation etc....

 

[volaredon]

I have a 75K unit in my 30x25 2 story garage.
The stairway is open and the garage is fully insulated.
The heater has been installed and running for 5 years now.
It warms up the garage quickly and does a great job of keeping the it very comfy.
on a cold day or night, I set for 60 degrees.
And it brings the temp up pretty quick. after that it kicks on for about 10 minutes once or twice an hour.
I ran black pipe until I went through the wall on the house and the garage (detached), then 90'ed down, added a shutoff on each end, and buried a section of the Orange plastic Utility company's Tubing that they use. (a friend had 150 feet of it for some reason).
I ran the CSST yellow inside the HD Orange Tubing and connected to the black pipe (All connections are above ground.)
Then pressure tested for 48 hours.
Once I was Happy, I had some HD Shrink Tubing that was in place on each end and heated that up to seal the Gap between the CSST and the Orange plastic tubing (Not much anyway, it was a tight fit)
Then Finished with sand, gravel and dirt to fill in the trench.
I only noticed an increase of $150 in my Gas Bill for the entire winter season...Chicago winter season!
I am Happy with it!

which way are you from Chicago? If 50 mi south, we can't be too far away from each other...wanna come by and gimme a hand with all this? LOL
Kankakee County here

 

[Ksullivan]

http://www.heater-store.com/heater_calculator_info.htm

using this calculator figuring you have average insulation and average leakage and you want to bring the temp from 20 to 55 you need about 72k btu's your 65k would work but it will take quite a bit longer to heat up and like some of the other poster's have been saying you may want it to maintain a constant 50 degree temp so if you did want to bump it up while you were working it wouldnt be that much to go from 50 to 60. Good luck on your project!

 

[KCarGuy]

Volaredom,
I am located straight west, right by the Fox River.
I have a few customers in Kankakee, so i am out that way a few times a year.
And thanks for the Invite...although I would kindly decline...I would hate for something to happen to someones house or property, if I helped install something incorrectly or not to code.
Besides...I hate digging! LOL!