Strouty
Well-known member
I think this thread needs a bit of this:
Harbor Freight/Chinese Tool Deception
- Thread starter Ericgst
- Start date
Sprintman
Banned
C h o i c e
not
C h i n a
the words are not spelled the same
My Choice will remain Choice
Something that IS thought about by some of US
You live in a bubble. It isn't reality but if it suits you that's fine
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
For the guy like me that needs a pipe wrench once every few months, the HF wrenches are spot-on perfect. I don't want to invest my life savings into an expensive, top-shelf USA-made tool for occasional use. The vast majority of users are in my situation, and this is precisely why HF is doing so well.
The beauty of our current situation is that you are completely free to go buy a 'smooth' expensive tool, and I am completely free to go buy the rough, cheap HF tool. No matter what else happens, I hope we always have these choices.......
Peace
We need to stop discussing anything related to Harbor Freight. This is going too far. Go to Home Depot and Lowes, you'll be pleased to know that all of their in-house brands all come from China now, and yes...that includes Husky & Kobalt, which almost 95% of the US Population rely on.
Did I forget to mention, Milwaukee Tools?
Live with it, nothing wrong with Harbor Freight Tools
You have a lot more in life to spend on, rather than just tools which every household needs for the DIY projects. I have neighbors that rely on contractors and pros which I personally don't think are fit for the job. We as DIY's do a much better job, suited to our tastes and satisfaction, than the helpless than rely on others.
The metal in our Made in USA tools originate from Chinese quarries, take that with a grain of salt.
Did I forget to mention, Milwaukee Tools?
Live with it, nothing wrong with Harbor Freight Tools
You have a lot more in life to spend on, rather than just tools which every household needs for the DIY projects. I have neighbors that rely on contractors and pros which I personally don't think are fit for the job. We as DIY's do a much better job, suited to our tastes and satisfaction, than the helpless than rely on others.
The metal in our Made in USA tools originate from Chinese quarries, take that with a grain of salt.
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stihlntime
Well-known member
If you can tell a cheaply made tool than you probably don't use tools enough. I've heard the USA made tool argument before, in the store I work PT in people used to ***** about carrying more USA made tools, owners filled the isles with them and 95% of the customers won't pay the price, they migrate to the China made cheaper tools. As long as 2/3 of the world make less than 3.00 an hour that is where mfg will migrate too. The exceptions are the USA,Canada,Europe and Austrailia the majority of the world lives in poverty. Unless import tariffs are in place to protect mfg, jobs will migrate, corporate taxes are also higher here than almost any other country. Bottom line they wouldn't be in business unless there was a demand. Anyone who can't recognize a piece of junk is probably a tool.
whitetrash1
Well-known member
Do you guys have any idea how many company's name start with American, but are based out of somewhere else? A lot.
The people that go to harbor freight were never going to buy high cost American made tools or maybe even a tool at all. It's a different target market that was never intended to include professionals. 25 - 40 years ago the same people were buying Japanese and Tawainese knockoffs instead of snap-on. I challenge the concept that HF **** ever was or could be competition for AMERICAN, german, swiss or whomever made high quality expensive tools. I say this is all a big outrage about nothing.
trentonmakes
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2014
- Messages
- 447
My superior skills allow me to get the job done no matter what tool I'm using! Lol
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
I went back and reviewed that thread about 1/4" drive socket sets where he called our goods "seppo ****"
I agree with you; he is not worth any response... Thanks for the Heads Up
You guys do realized one important thing right.... no matter where the tool is made, cheap or cheaper/cheapest/junk.... usually the company that import and sells it to you are not the ones from that country of origin right? The manufacturer is just manufacturer, it is usually the importer/buyer that dictates the quality of the good.. in most cases......... some reminder: Lumber liquidator / Toys R Us with their Lead paint toys or something like that.... including Harbor Freight and Apple. unless you are telling me that these company are all own by the a foreign government.... in these cases China.....
Every one cries getting rip off cheap Chinese product with their cheap tool that they bough for pennies on the dollar. No one realized that, it's the freaking seller/merchant that sold you the tool rip you off... and your greed...... It's actually not a rip off, you get what you paid for... unless you are one of the selective few that buys HF tool at Snap-on prices.
It's the expression: "It's not the gun that kill people. It's the people that kill people........ "
FFS: Wake up and smell the coffee....
Every one cries getting rip off cheap Chinese product with their cheap tool that they bough for pennies on the dollar. No one realized that, it's the freaking seller/merchant that sold you the tool rip you off... and your greed...... It's actually not a rip off, you get what you paid for... unless you are one of the selective few that buys HF tool at Snap-on prices.
It's the expression: "It's not the gun that kill people. It's the people that kill people........ "
FFS: Wake up and smell the coffee....
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Where does the profits and capital go in those particular companies?
ProCharger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 69
Do a quick search, Toyota tops the list as "american made" vehicles. Toyota Camry tops ALL lists. The imports are no longer imports.
bczygan
Well-known member
The whole COO discussion/argument is a moot point and red herring.
There are a plethora of sources for the tools and the materials and labor to manufacture, transport and merchandise them.
Lots of choices to please most anyone.
Yes, I bemoan the availability of many of the tools constructed in the country I happened to be born in. Some were well designed and manufactured, and in their time were state of the art. The reason for many of them was to supply a military industrial complex devoted to war, and the reason for that has diminished. Economic realities have changed. The world has changed.
I find that my wishes for an earlier time, when the world made more sense, are just figments of an imaginary world that never really existed.
Bill
There are a plethora of sources for the tools and the materials and labor to manufacture, transport and merchandise them.
Lots of choices to please most anyone.
Yes, I bemoan the availability of many of the tools constructed in the country I happened to be born in. Some were well designed and manufactured, and in their time were state of the art. The reason for many of them was to supply a military industrial complex devoted to war, and the reason for that has diminished. Economic realities have changed. The world has changed.
I find that my wishes for an earlier time, when the world made more sense, are just figments of an imaginary world that never really existed.
Bill
Strouty
Well-known member
Bill, this did not start out as a COO issue, if you see these wrenches in person, they are totally trying to make people think they are made in the USA. If a wrench is made anywhere but the USA, it should not be allowed to have USA cast, stamped, or otherwise printed anywhere on it. I have seen them and I did a double take myself. Once that tag is gone, no one knows where it is made. I for one think it is a pretty shady thing to pull and I would think that if my Grip On pliers had USA stamped on them.
zakmartin
Well-known member
LumpyMusic
Well-known member
Chinese tools, made from Chinese materials using Chinese made machines, don't accept tool polish as well as tools made by Americans using Chinese materials and Chinese machines, that cost eleven times as much.
Sgt Lumpy
Sgt Lumpy
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Let me know when this national wealth effects more than 5% of the population. The profits don't matter, because they end up in the bank accounts, stocks, and toys of the super rich. GM profits don't effect the guys on the line, aside from ensuring their jobs. If GM makes an extra dollar a car, they don't throw a few cents to the workers who made the cars. They don't even get a pizza party!
Meanwhile the executives and the companies pay less effective tax than those line-workers.
They just work, day in day out, regardless of how much money the CEO rakes in to spend on mega-homes and cocaine. The best way to stimulate an economy is to invest those living at the bottom. They're already spending most of their salaries to stay above water, and doing without.
Basically: Scrodge Mcduck can only be in one mansion at a time. Realistically, at a certain point he can't even visit them all, due to travel time. Money that sits in that room of gold coins has zero value to the economy, since it never re-enters it.
Put that little crippled kid (tiny tim?) needs food, shelter, etc, and can quickly spend that money back into the economy, since he actually needs things.
50 million broke people blowing an extra 50 bucks a week has WAY more impact than the CEO of GM, buying a third sail-boat.
So, no, the CEO of GM, toyota, honda, whoever, doesn't matter. Send the money to the moon, none of us are going to see the impact.
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Let me know when this national wealth effects more than 5% of the population. The profits don't matter, because they end up in the bank accounts, stocks, and toys of the super rich.
Exactly. Capitalism is only viable when the money is moving around and exchanging hands. America became a powerful nation due to a strong middle class with the ability to move a significant part of the nation's wealth around the economy. Those days are long gone. Now a tiny fraction of that former wealth goes to virtual slave labor overseas and the rest into the money pit of the super rich.
Yep. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? We in the middle class are entitled to a great manufacturing jobs AND gosh darn it we have the right buy tools made in China, clothes made in Bangladesh, and cars made in Korea.
Makes perfect sense! How could that not work??? But those darn evil CEOs and rich people are greedy and messing it up for all of us victims.
News flash.... There have always been CEOs, and their job has always been to make as much money for themselves and their investors as possible. The reason the middle class is disappearing is because no one buys what they - or their neighbor - make anymore.
Paying more for stuff is tough though. It's much easier to blame some evil rich dude, or the government.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Not blaming, only pointing out. They're not the only guilt parties.
Wage stagnation, is the big killer here, which leads to pursuit of cheaper goods. Wages haven't kept up with inflation. That, and the increasingly materialistic nature of society. A TV is now a need, not a want, etc. We have more things to buy, due to a higher standard of living.
Medical expectations, over valued commodities markets (housing bubble, etc.), decreasing/flat-lined wages, post-industrialism, it goes on.
CEOs, BOD, CFOs, are easy targets, especially when talking about the flow of money through corporations. And while they deserve compensation for their services, many receive huge compensation regardless of performance, or the LONG term stability of the company. Short term gains are often leveraged above long term stability.
And FWIW: Derivatives didn't exist 50 years ago. Many of the stock market products sold today are new inventions. And the role of the stock market, commodities markets, credit lending, and the federal reserve have all changed greatly. Implying leave-it-to-beaver economics and Ronnie Reagan could turn everything around is a simplification. We have no USSR, Europe is floundering, and our economy is built on making money, not products or services. It's a far different world, with new solutions needed.
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I was speaking to the problems facing the nation at large.VictorBravo
Well-known member
Has anybody here ever seen a tool labeled, "Made in USA, Japan?" I've heard of such things in the 60s and early 70s, but have never seen one.
Just pointing why. I never alluded to anything about someone deserving or not deserving a decent living or whom is responsible for your personal finances. If that is what you infer you are just reading into it what you want to or your reading comprehension *****. I don't GAF what else you think about the growing wealth discrepancy in this country. You cannot deny that what I said is true about the why and its risk to a healthy and viable capitalist economy. You are the one assigning blame on your neighbors for choosing to buy international. You say it is their fault. Why are you separating the inducement from corporate America for those people doing so? Clearly you have never thought about what led people to do so other than the simplistic answer of BLAMING them for buying cheap. Like I said earlier - capitalism is more hallowed ground than religion and too many think it is beyond criticism even when it methods are blatantly predatory and self destructive.
I am going to ban myself for awhile.
bczygan
Well-known member
Well, that IS an american company using those misleading words.
I say buyer beware, it has always been so. Many american companies sell shoddy quality items. More of them used to be made here, but less now.
It is in the nature of business, and especially free range capitalism, to do all they can for profit. There is a bell curve of price points to pick from. Some companies pick where they want to be on the curve. Some form subsidiaries to market to a different part of the curve.
Caveat emptor!
Bill
<a href="http://www.popcorngif.com/57/deer-eating-popcorn/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Hkq3c.gif" border="0" alt=" Popcorngif.com" /></a>
I'm serious when I say all this is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. The whole thing is going down in a spectacular blaze of glory. Who is to blame? I guess we will find out..
I'm serious when I say all this is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. The whole thing is going down in a spectacular blaze of glory. Who is to blame? I guess we will find out..
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Strouty
Well-known member
Bill, I think that hat may be effecting your thinking. 
Yea I have heard of that. and all my high school teachers swear by that, they were all aviation mechanics and engineers.... ... ... but some one denies that this ever happened........ sighting few website links all pointing back to the same source....(brain wash type material, such as Japan did not invade US realities, they were merely passing by Pearl Harbor and there was just a malfunction in their planes and their pilots died)
so
, I am not a historian to arguejustanengineer
Well-known member
Not trying to nitpick in the least, just an observation bc after working in US manufacturing I'm somewhat sensitive and notice these things - many folks make a serious effort, many more than most would believe. JMO, but I believe many folks today don't realize how much of an effort others make, and use it as justification buy the cheapest **** possible at Walmart, HF, and elsewhere. I firmly believe that if others would start waking up and realizing how many of their neighbors are like many here and go to serious lengths to avoid buying foreign goods then our manufacturing industry would flourish again pretty quickly.
Case in point - I visit Detroit every summer for a model engine show and to see the city, I'm an industrial history buff and love the area. I noticed long ago but even SWMBO commented this summer bc there's an abnormally low amount of foreign cars on the road there compared to most everywhere else in the country, the locals pretty well know who pays their bills. To a large extent, I see that same trend in many other areas too, the locals generally tend to really support the local manufacturers regardless if they recognize it or not.
Its kind of like smoking, many used "everybody" doing it as an excuse to do it themselves. Then slowly folks started waking up to the fact that not everybody was doing it, and it became unfashionable to do so.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
Harbor Freight really isn't that cheap anymore. Less expensive than the real tool it's mimicking, but not exactly cheap.
3baygarage
Well-known member
I ran across a guy selling those same HF pipe wrenches at the flea market a few years ago. He had a bunch brand new and was telling everyone they were made in USA. I played tool police and called him out on it but he didn't care. Pretty sure he knew what he was doing. People were gobbling them up. 
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bczygan
Well-known member
I noticed the difference here in Detroit too. It has been true for a long time. In the 70's I lived in North Carolina. There were lots of imports there, especially those Nissan and Toyota mini 4x4 pickups. They worked great in the mountains. Having come from Detroit, I was surprised at the percentage of foreign vehicles. I was used to almost all vehicles on the road being from the big three.
Then I moved back to Detroit.
Gradually I noticed that Detroit was different than the rest of the country. California especially, being the import point for the Jap cars, had a high percentage of them. But the rest of the country gradually increased their percentages of foreign vehicles too.
Now, as to the reasons for our being the holdout. I think it is mostly the special deals offered to the employees of the car companies here. And peer pressure. At some places, if you drove an import to work at say Ford, you could get your car vandalized in the parking lot while you were at work.
And the cars, and advertising for them, are ubiquitous.
Plus, there is company pride. Even my wife is subject to it. She works at Ford, but is not a Ford employee. Doesn't get any of their benefits. But she still thinks their products are beautiful and wonderful. I think they're **** in many ways. I wouldn't have one, except that a 99' Econoline was given us.
Things have changed over the years, and now the foreign vehicles are a much larger percentage here.
So while there is some who may buy based on perceived COO, I don't think it is the major driving force here in Detroit. There used to be a campaign by the unions for their members to buy what they build, but I don't even hear that anymore.
Plus, much of the actual manufacturing has moved elsewhere.
And face it, there are no more american car companies. There are only world car companies. They are all spread completely around the world. Where their corporate offices are located, is meaningless. You may as well put your "I buy american" bumper sticker on a Honda.
All this COO rah rah is an attempt at some kind of misguided patriotism.
Bill
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Sprintman
Banned
toddoky
Well-known member
There is nothing to "get", it's a debatable issue with varying opinions. The trade deficit the U.S. has with China is the largest in the world and the U.S. also does less to protect it's trade interests than any of the Asian countries selling products here. There is an imbalance that is not sustainable.
Sprintman
Banned
Trying to live in bubbleland doesn't make it reality. Nice try though
bczygan
Well-known member
toddoky
Well-known member
Who's talking about living in a bubble? It's merely stating the obvious and being interested in negotiating trade deals that serve our interests as favorably as possible. Some of you guys are funny, as long as you have access to cheap products you have no interest in having a discussion about the long term effects of such purchases.
toddoky
Well-known member
Not sure what you're trying to point out...the graphic depicts China as our 3rd largest trade partner with the highest trade deficit by far.