Harbor Freight Compressor died...

[darkk]

Our HF compressor quit running, so I called HF tech support and troubleshooting revealed a bad capacitor. Called HF for parts and they are back ordered. So I find one at Graingers and order it. It's a 130uf 250vac start capacitor. Well the second time the compressor starts running, at about 35 seconds in......BANG!CRUNCKERKKKSSPPIITTZZZZZZZZ smoke everywhere and little bits and pieces everywhere. I pull the plug and remove the top plastic cover. The new capacitor exploded...it was cool, made a hell of a mess though. It also took out the cooling fan blade in the process. Anyways its a couple weeks after the HF call so I call them back and talk to tech support explaining what happened, guy says the other tech gave you wrong info, that's a run capacitor not a start capacitor. Great! I ask about ordering the fan and capacitor. They order both for me and say the capacitor is to ship out on 2/24/12. The fan shows up on the 29th, so I call and ask about the capacitor. The guy says back ordered until mid April. I said what? I was told 2/24...ha says, well that was just a mfg ship date but they are now moving availability up to mid April. WTF? I've been trying to find a capacitor to replace it but it's an odd value and I can't find anything within specs. I did however find a pair of 65uf 440vac that I guess I'll just run in parallel to get the 130uf. The voltage will ok as long as it's over the minimum value. I've been an electronics tech as a hobby for over 50 years and a job for 15 years and this had even me confused as I didn't realize start and run caps are not the same...go figure.

 

[Macgyver_ga]

Our HF compressor quit running, so I called HF tech support and troubleshooting revealed a bad capacitor. Called HF for parts and they are back ordered. So I find one at Graingers and order it. It's a 130uf 250vac start capacitor. Well the second time the compressor starts running, at about 35 seconds in......BANG!CRUNCKERKKKSSPPIITTZZZZZZZZ smoke everywhere and little bits and pieces everywhere. I pull the plug and remove the top plastic cover. The new capacitor exploded...it was cool, made a hell of a mess though. It also took out the cooling fan blade in the process. Anyways its a couple weeks after the HF call so I call them back and talk to tech support explaining what happened, guy says the other tech gave you wrong info, that's a run capacitor not a start capacitor. Great! I ask about ordering the fan and capacitor. They order both for me and say the capacitor is to ship out on 2/24/12. The fan shows up on the 29th, so I call and ask about the capacitor. The guy says back ordered until mid April. I said what? I was told 2/24...ha says, well that was just a mfg ship date but they are now moving availability up to mid April. WTF? I've been trying to find a capacitor to replace it but it's an odd value and I can't find anything within specs. I did however find a pair of 65uf 440vac that I guess I'll just run in parallel to get the 130uf. The voltage will ok as long as it's over the minimum value. I've been an electronics tech as a hobby for over 50 years and a job for 15 years and this had even me confused as I didn't realize start and run caps are not the same...go figure.

Thanks for the info, the capacitor in my HF compressor crapped out a few months ago. I need to replace it. It started oozing melted plastic out the side of it.

 

[Al Bundy]

Maybe they buy their capacitors from the same place Samsung does.

 

[puttsy]

Thanks for the info, the capacitor in my HF compressor crapped out a few months ago. I need to replace it. It started oozing melted plastic out the side of it.

Maybe they buy their capacitors from the same place Samsung does.

A) Pretty sure in capacitors it's called electrolyte, not plastic...or in some cases wax but that's *less* common

B) All the major mfg's pretty much use CapXon capacitors. They are the lowest bidder for nearly all PSU's...of which, Samsung LCD panels are also the most common the the 2 are often together. I can't tell you how many of those garbage capacitor's I've replaced. In everything from low-end, no-name monitors to Viewsonic panels...Sad part? The PSU's are the same in the $100 monitors as the $400 monitors...at least the panels and control boards are different though.

C) There's a difference between a 'starting' capacitor and a 'running' capacitor? Is that their way of under-rating the caps used elsewhere on their units because the "starting" part draws more? Also, you should be able to just get a larger rating capacitor and pop it in...just don't go overboard. I haven't worked with caps THAT big so I don't know if there IS the next step up but, if you find a good Rubycon cap with the same or higher rating, you should be golden. There's also the possibility you got a bad cap as a replacement but I kind-of doubt it.

 

[STINEY]

Any chance of you posting a picture?

Might help some of us less electronics-literate guys save a otherwise useless compressor, and save some cash?

 

[darkk]

Inside the capacitor, the terminals connect to two metal plates separated by a non-conducting substance, or dielectric. Electrolytes are a conductive material...not used in capacitors.

Firstly, AC capacitors are different from regular DC capacitors in form and function. Although you can grossly over size in smaller electronics like monitors, power supplies etc, You CAN NOT do so in AC motors. The start capacitors are powered for very short cycles for a boost while the motor is energizing to start. The run capacitor is powered continually as long as the motor is running. Motors with run capacitors have additional windings that are kept magnetically energized at a specific out of phase cycle with the main armature windings giving it the extra power for the HP rating of the motor. The uf rating (micro farad) has to be within a specific % of the value otherwise the motor runs hot, uses excess energy and put undue stress on the motor causing premature failure. I my case I was not able to find the specific cap I needed so I just used two in parallel.

 

[darkk]

As requested....exploded cap!

 

[bsaint]

time to man up to three phase.

 

[StevePgh]

Wow! At least no one was hurt. These/all capacitors DO have a limited lifetime, and I have seen them leak, but rarely explode like that one did. Five-10 years is a reasonable lifespan for most properly sized start/run caps in applications like a heat pump, where they are active for a good % of the day. Lifespan shortened by temp extremes and age. How old is your compressor and what is the duty cycle like? (These are observations based on personal experience and talking to 2 HVAC tech friends of mine over the years and as such are anecdotal and may only accidentally reflect reality.)

 

[darkk]

This capacitor was all of about 5 minutes old. It was a start capacitor in place of a run capacitor. Couldn't get the right one so I tried this one, as we see that didn't work. I'm a lets do it anyways kinda guy. Oh well.....**** happens. hahaha!

 

[Macgyver_ga]

Here's some pics of mine

It melted a hole in the side of itself

 

[StevePgh]

darkk, I am curious about how long the factory cap lasted - the age and use of the compressor before it died the first time.

 

[StevePgh]

Macgyver_ga - what is your story? Type, brand, age, duty cycle of compressor? Looks like a Chinese cap...

 

[trboxman]

Macgyver_ga - what is your story? Type, brand, age, duty cycle of compressor? Looks like a Chinese cap...

What clued you in? The word "Shanghai" being in the company name?

 

[Davefr]

Capacitor quality has gone to hell. Ask the HVAC guys about the capacitor failure epidemic with heat pumps and AC's in summer months.

 

[StevePgh]

What clued you in? The word "Shanghai" being in the company name?

The name alone means NOTHING - The Chinese-made Harbor Freight cabinets are US General In all seriousness, I'd like to know if I should replace my caps before something like that happens to mine.

 

[trboxman]

You do recognize the difference in motivation right?

If not the name then what are the visual cues to that cap being made in China?

 

[StevePgh]

Capacitor quality has gone to hell. Ask the HVAC guys about the capacitor failure epidemic with heat pumps and AC's in summer months.

That's what I have been hearing in the HVAC world, and experienced with my own heat pump. In the electronics world (computer motherboards as the prime example), the higher-end stuff has been going towards the polymer caps which are more reliable, but only for low voltage applications. Japanese caps in our applications, like motors, have a much better reputation, if you can find them, much like bearings.

 

[StevePgh]

You do recognize the difference in motivation right?

If not the name then what are the visual cues to that cap being made in China?

The big clue is their website, which touts their 'explosion proof' caps. The fact that they are Chinese made has nothing to do with my inquiry as to the duty cycle, manufacturer, and age of the equipment they were OEM'd in. I would prefer to purchase equipment that has caps that die a bit more gracefully, as would we all. In other words, this cap was faulty, and/or the design was, and I'd like to avoid it. The OP (darkk) with the HF compressor had a graceful failure (with the OEM, at least), but what was Macgyver_ga's situation? Was darkk's compressor brand new or older and what kind of duty cycle? These things are important and necessary to draw conclusions from.

 

[darkk]

We bought our HF compressor in May of last year. It has not had heavy use. It is the 2.5hp 21 gal model 67847 It was a great compressor til it died. Going to fix it though...

 

[wellpoison]

the capacitors that come hooked up to those motors will not blow up like that. you have to know what winding the cap was hooked up to start or run. doing so requires you (most of the time) to open up the motor and use a meter with a continuity tester. the start cap will be hooked up to the smaller winding that is shut off by a centrifugal switch in the motor, attached to the rotor or armature. this is what switches the start winding to the run winding.

 

[trboxman]

The big clue is their website, which touts their 'explosion proof' caps.

I was just having fun the first pass...but I'll point out that you said

Looks like a Chinese cap...

Then I asked if the name with "Shanghai" in it was a clue. To which you replied:

The name alone means NOTHING

Which lead me to believe that you had ID'd it visually. But then you say you googled it up. Hmmm...I don't think it would have "looked..Chinese" if you'd already researched it and knew it was Chinese.

Whatever, I'm still thinking that the company being named Shanghai whatevertheheck was a pretty darned good clue for any and everyone who looked at the thread without having to have special powers of perception (or Googlefu after the fact)....don't let me interrupt a good China bashing rant.

 

[StevePgh]

I was just having fun the first pass...but I'll point out that you said



Then I asked if the name with "Shanghai" in it was a clue. To which you replied:



Which lead me to believe that you had ID'd it visually. But then you say you googled it up. Hmmm...I don't think it would have "looked..Chinese" if you'd already researched it and knew it was Chinese.

Whatever, I'm still thinking that the company being named Shanghai whatevertheheck was a pretty darned good clue for any and everyone who looked at the thread without having to have special powers of perception (or Googlefu after the fact)....don't let me interrupt a good China bashing rant.

In trying to source replacement electronic components, I've learned not to rely on the name of the company to determine COO - been burned far too many times (granted, usually with branding that implies non-Chinese COO instead of the other way around). Plus, with the recent Tsunami and flooding with Japan and Signapore, many OEMS have had to source components that are not up to the quality bar or even specs required by the design (HINT: If you want to buy a new spinney hard drive, wait 6-10 more months). There is not much in consumer electronics that can be built with all domestic (or even 1st world) parts.

Yeah, I Googled it first, but had only moderate confidence it was the same company. Needling me forced a check of my browser history to produce the link. Note how well it is written, it just draws me to select them as my supplier.

Back to the point, if there is one, manufacturers have been forced to build products using components that were not part of the initial design due to temporary supply shortages. This is likely why a replacement cap is on backorder. They are still building/selling new product - where are they getting those caps and what are those tolerances?

 

[oldtools]

Our HF compressor quit running, so I called HF tech support and troubleshooting revealed a bad capacitor. Called HF for parts and they are back ordered. So I find one at Graingers and order it. It's a 130uf 250vac start capacitor. Well the second time the compressor starts running, at about 35 seconds in......BANG!CRUNCKERKKKSSPPIITTZZZZZZZZ smoke everywhere and little bits and pieces everywhere. I pull the plug and remove the top plastic cover. The new capacitor exploded...it was cool, made a hell of a mess though. It also took out the cooling fan blade in the process. Anyways its a couple weeks after the HF call so I call them back and talk to tech support explaining what happened, guy says the other tech gave you wrong info, that's a run capacitor not a start capacitor. Great! I ask about ordering the fan and capacitor. They order both for me and say the capacitor is to ship out on 2/24/12. The fan shows up on the 29th, so I call and ask about the capacitor. The guy says back ordered until mid April. I said what? I was told 2/24...ha says, well that was just a mfg ship date but they are now moving availability up to mid April. WTF? I've been trying to find a capacitor to replace it but it's an odd value and I can't find anything within specs. I did however find a pair of 65uf 440vac that I guess I'll just run in parallel to get the 130uf. The voltage will ok as long as it's over the minimum value. I've been an electronics tech as a hobby for over 50 years and a job for 15 years and this had even me confused as I didn't realize start and run caps are not the same...go figure.

What voltage is the compressor running at? If it is running at 240V, then the 250V cap is the wrong cap to use. 240V is the RMS voltage, but the peak voltage is 340V. If the applied voltage (340V) is greater than the cap rated voltage (250V), the cap will explode regardless of who make the cap. If you want a safety margin of 25%, you should get a cap rated at 425V.

 

[darkk]

No offence meant to anyone here. Obviously some of you guys have not been paying attention to my posts. I am a very experienced electronics technician. I'll admit I really didn't give this problem much thought at first because I thought it was under warranty, it wasn't. This issue with this compressor was not because I have it at the wrong voltage or connected to the wrong windings and the original capacitor did not explode.The compressor ran fine for almost a year. It is a small 115 volts light duty unit. The compressor started to make load humming noises when it was powered on and not starting. I shut it off so as not to trip the circuit. I did some troubleshooting with HF tech support. The motor capacitor was faulty for whatever reason. It did not leak or explode. The tech said it was a motor START capacitor. I saw no reason to doubt him. HF part was on back order. I looked on graingers site and ordered a START capacitor and installed it. There are only 2 wires on the original capacitor and with AC capacitors, there is no polarization issues. It can be installed to the terminals in either direction. After 5 minutes worth of running....it exploded. This is when I started to examine the compressor for the cause. It was because of erroneous information from HF tech support. The motor capacitor needed is actually a motor RUN capacitor. The capacitor is not industry standard (go figure) it is an odd value. 130uf 250vac. It has to be replaced with something within 5% value. The capacitor that is factory original is still on back order and the new date is mid April. Not wanting to wait I opted to buy 2 65uf 440vac and will install them in parallel. The higher voltage will have no affect on the operation. Actually they will be less likely to fail....are we good?

 

[STINEY]

No offence meant to anyone here. Obviously some of you guys have not been paying attention to my posts. I am a very experienced electronics technician. I'll admit I really didn't give this problem much thought at first because I thought it was under warranty, it wasn't. This issue with this compressor was not because I have it at the wrong voltage or connected to the wrong windings and the original capacitor did not explode.The compressor ran fine for almost a year. It is a small 115 volts light duty unit. The compressor started to make load humming noises when it was powered on and not starting. I shut it off so as not to trip the circuit. I did some troubleshooting with HF tech support. The motor capacitor was faulty for whatever reason. It did not leak or explode. The tech said it was a motor START capacitor. I saw no reason to doubt him. HF part was on back order. I looked on graingers site and ordered a START capacitor and installed it. There are only 2 wires on the original capacitor and with AC capacitors, there is no polarization issues. It can be installed to the terminals in either direction. After 5 minutes worth of running....it exploded. This is when I started to examine the compressor for the cause. It was because of erroneous information from HF tech support. The motor capacitor needed is actually a motor RUN capacitor. The capacitor is not industry standard (go figure) it is an odd value. 130uf 250vac. It has to be replaced with something within 5% value. The capacitor that is factory original is still on back order and the new date is mid April. Not wanting to wait I opted to buy 2 65uf 440vac and will install them in parallel. The higher voltage will have no affect on the operation. Actually they will be less likely to fail....are we good?

Well, I for one am more than good! Thank you very much for your input and pictures.............my HF compressor was roughly the same age and did the exact same thing (not starting, humming, popping the breaker, bit-o-smoke)

Now I know what to do to fix it instead of just trashing it. I figured it was repairable, but did not know what to replace. No obvious damage to any part, maybe I should have let more smoke out for diagnostic purposes?

Any pictures of the new parts installed?

Thanks again!

 

[Macgyver_ga]

Macgyver_ga - what is your story? Type, brand, age, duty cycle of compressor? Looks like a Chinese cap...

It's a 6 year old Harbor freight compressor (Central Pnuematic). I can't remember the HP of it but it's an upright with a 25 gallon tank. It crapped out about 6-9 months ago. Started smoking like crazy and when I pulled the plastic shroud off the motor, there was stuff oozing out of the capacitor. I've gotten quite a bit of use out of it over the years. Fortunately I have a smaller 6 gallon Porter Cable pancake compressor to use. It just doesn't run air tools as well as the bigger one.

 

[Davefr]

No offence meant to anyone here. Obviously some of you guys have not been paying attention to my posts. I am a very experienced electronics technician. I'll admit I really didn't give this problem much thought at first because I thought it was under warranty, it wasn't. This issue with this compressor was not because I have it at the wrong voltage or connected to the wrong windings and the original capacitor did not explode.The compressor ran fine for almost a year. It is a small 115 volts light duty unit. The compressor started to make load humming noises when it was powered on and not starting. I shut it off so as not to trip the circuit. I did some troubleshooting with HF tech support. The motor capacitor was faulty for whatever reason. It did not leak or explode. The tech said it was a motor START capacitor. I saw no reason to doubt him. HF part was on back order. I looked on graingers site and ordered a START capacitor and installed it. There are only 2 wires on the original capacitor and with AC capacitors, there is no polarization issues. It can be installed to the terminals in either direction. After 5 minutes worth of running....it exploded. This is when I started to examine the compressor for the cause. It was because of erroneous information from HF tech support. The motor capacitor needed is actually a motor RUN capacitor. The capacitor is not industry standard (go figure) it is an odd value. 130uf 250vac. It has to be replaced with something within 5% value. The capacitor that is factory original is still on back order and the new date is mid April. Not wanting to wait I opted to buy 2 65uf 440vac and will install them in parallel. The higher voltage will have no affect on the operation. Actually they will be less likely to fail....are we good?

Get one of these:
http://www.americanradionic.com/content/view/31/61/1/1/

They're good quality and made in the USA.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

good way to juice up offshore economy compressors

we have compressors from the sixties still cranking away

 

[Cryptic1911]

good way to juice up offshore economy compressors

we have compressors from the sixties still cranking away

Yeah, We know it's a cheap POS, but it was just for temporary light duty stuff like air nailers / stapler, lift air locks, and the occasional impact to pop some wheels off, until the addition and electrical are finished up. Once that's done, the old 2 stage compressor out in the other garage will get wired and plumbed in.

Didn't expect much out of it, got it for $139 on sale

 

[darkk]

Get one of these
They're good quality and made in the USA.

Still not listening guys...I need a 130uf cap which is a very unusual size. I would still have to buy 2 caps to make it work. The price for a pair of those fancy jobs I could buy another compressor...They are on their way as we type. We have a lessor model IR from the early 80's. A 5 HP 2 stage. It's just in our storage garage and we haven't plumbed it over to the new garage yet...

 

[STINEY]

No fooling its a weird size..........where did you find the replacements?

I've been looking all afternoon and can only get close, 60/5 uf 440 vac is as close as I'm getting, and they are nearly $40 a piece.

That makes a new cheap compressor look like the better prospect.

 

[ElectroLight]

The compressor started to make load humming noises when it was powered on and not starting.

Wow, my 30 year old 240V USA made Craftsman (Devilbis) compressor's been doing that since the early 90's... The fix is to open up the motor and clean the contacts on the commutator, works every time. Have you looked there?

This sounds like trouble...

I did some troubleshooting with HF tech support. The motor capacitor was faulty for whatever reason. It did not leak or explode.

Anyone else experiencing this problem should try whacking the motor with a rubber mallet when this is going on. If the motor starts to run, chances are the contacts in the commutator are pitted. Clean them up with a fine file and re-test. I'm not in favor of swapping electrical parts without testing and confirming bad first.

 

[darkk]

No fooling its a weird size..........where did you find the replacements?

I've been looking all afternoon and can only get close, 60/5 uf 440 vac is as close as I'm getting, and they are nearly $40 a piece.

That makes a new cheap compressor look like the better prospect.

Got mine for $6.29 each, ordered two of them, will hook them up in paralelle to get 130uf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260867479388&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

Wow, my 30 year old 240V USA made Craftsman (Devilbis) compressor's been doing that since the early 90's... The fix is to open up the motor and clean the contacts on the commutator, works every time. Have you looked there?

The motor and compressor are one unit, probably have to take half of it apart to look...

 

[STINEY]

I recieved my new capacitor from Hong Kong a couple of days ago and tried it last night.

The compressor did start somewhat better than it did before, but that might have been the warmer weather.

Unfortunately, it slowed down and started just a bit of smoke from the motor, just before it hit 90 psi.

Oh well, I was just hoping for a $10 repair instead of a $150 replacement.

 

[darkk]

I recieved my new capacitor from Hong Kong a couple of days ago and tried it last night.
The compressor did start somewhat better than it did before, but that might have been the warmer weather.
Unfortunately, it slowed down and started just a bit of smoke from the motor, just before it hit 90 psi.
Oh well, I was just hoping for a $10 repair instead of a $150 replacement.

I got to thinking about the armature and brushes etc. I inspected the motor and the main shaft goes thru the motor right into the compressor itself. Meaning I would have to disassemble the compressor to get at the brushes. Since the cover was off anyways, I spun the motor backwards for a while hoping to scrape off any grunge that may have accumilated on the armature during it's use so far. I finished assembling it last night and just plugged it in. It fired right up and filled the tank. Don't know if it will last but it seems to run fine so far. *fingers crossed*