Harbor Freight "Hercules" battery tear down.

[ckeboss]

Just picked up a Hercules 2.5ah 20v battery. It has IRN18650-25R Samsung cells in it. Specs say 25A discharge. After some pretty major case modification on the battery, it does "clip" into dewalt tools, but really not very practical, as the battery is $30.

The temperature sensors work different to the dewalt batteries, so I am going to add a 10k ohm resistor, and that should allow the tool to come on. Will post when I have done that, waiting to get more in the mail. For now, here are the current photos:

 

[Bighead38]

For the effort and time might as well get dewalt batteries.

 

[SMKS]

Samsung brand cells. That's good.

I was wondering if they'd cheap out on the cells in these.

 

[ckeboss]

For the effort and time might as well get dewalt batteries.

I 100% agree. Unless these get to around $10, I wouldn't bother. At $30 each, you can get dewalt 2.0 ah batteries on ebay.

 

[ckeboss]

Also, funny to note the package says "Alarm: Anti theft device enclosed". There is no anti theft device anywhere in the packaging or the battery.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Samsung brand cells. That's good.

I was wondering if they'd cheap out on the cells in these.

Not on product launch.

 

[paradoxical3]

Shocked to see Samsung brand batteries, those are high quality cells.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Shocked to see Samsung brand batteries, those are high quality cells.

I'm actually not too shocked. Harbor Freight has made some SERIOUS efforts to procure tools over the last year and a half that are significantly higher in quality than they have ever offered under their house brands before. The 72T low profile Pittsburgh Pro ratchets are solid (definitely not the best, but a serious contender for a budget professional or more sophisticated DIY). The earthquake and EQ XT (despite all the youtube drama surrounding them right now) are long lasting and fairly powerful impacts that some have used for years in a professional shop.

Unlike many others, I see these newer power tools doing well. I don't see them selling on the level that DeWalt or Milwaukee sell at, but they will do well. They're putting money into ordering some high quality (so far the tear downs of these power tools have been very positive).

With Sears going downhill, HF is rapidly expanding to replace Sears/Craftsman. They're setting up a solid good/better/best line up (or maybe more like ****/okayish/and actually good), nationwide availability, and endless "sales" to draw in the crowds. They're not going to replace Snap On or any other big name brand, but they will be competitive.

I mean really, in the last few decades at Sears, have you been able to get an impact wrench as nice as the Earthquake XTs? An angle grinder or cordless tool as nice as the new Hercules? A Portaband like the Bauer?

I've said it many times before. Harbor Freight (despite their ads) isn't trying to compete with Snap On or DeWalt. They simply compare themselves to Snap On for the same reasons Craftsman reviews are littered with people saying "this ratchet is just as good as my friend's Snap On." It's not as good, but if people think they are even remotely close to the same quality or capabilities, they will buy the cheaper one. They're aiming to replace Craftsman and they're doing a great job at it.

It also looks like HF will be bringing a Vulcan branded line of welders too (https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-large-welding-cabinet-63179.html). I doubt they'll ever make me consider replacing my HTP Pro Pulse, but they'll probably be better than what Craftsman was offering...

 

[jonesg]

Also, funny to note the package says "Alarm: Anti theft device enclosed". There is no anti theft device anywhere in the packaging or the battery.

Its a small sticker on the inside of the battery casing.

 

[ckeboss]

Shocked to see Samsung brand batteries, those are high quality cells.

Really, for the price point they have these marketed at ($30), I would be surprised if they were not using name brand cells. No doubt, the tools they are marketing I'm sure are very similar quality that is coming out of SBD and TTI's factories.

The issue I have with them is the current price point. You can get dewalt's line for the same price or even slightly cheaper on sale with the drill and impact combo kits.

My guess is they will bring the price point down with coupons around 20%. Still think it's too expensive, but they will sell. They are much better quality than ryobi and the bunch, just think they are too close in price to the big guys in the industry.

 

[Tallpilot]

Unfortunately they do not have the moisture barrier the big brand name batteries do. But I do agree they are angling to replace Craftsman as the quintessential everyman brand. I suspect they will succeed if they continue what they have been doing the past few years.

 

[6PTsocket]

Unfortunately they do not have the moisture barrier the big brand name batteries do. But I do agree they are angling to replace Craftsman as the quintessential everyman brand. I suspect they will succeed if they continue what they have been doing the past few years.

Craftsman, whom I am no great fan of, is famous for their warranty. HF is famous for almost no warranty. It is still 90 days or buy a 2 year plan and they are the only so called name brand that has no part numbers on the parts breakdown sheet, that comes with the tool, because there are no spares. I will not buy throw away tools at that price. This is not a comparison to Sears but to Milwaukee, Makita,DeWalt, etc.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Skin]

Best warranty is one you never need. I feel its really rather moot personally as long as they're building the tools decently. $100 isn't a lot of money for a cordless tool kit so if it breaks are you really going to waste time finding an authorized service center and jerking around with that for a few weeks or are you going to spend $60 and just get another bare tool? Ditto on a $30 battery.

If you're really someone who cares about reparability and quality you're not going to be buying a $100 impact/drill kit regardless of brand. These entry tools are priced to be disposable in the first place.

 

[bushmechanic]

Samsung brand cells. That's good.

I was wondering if they'd cheap out on the cells in these.

You've got to be careful with those. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but Samsung does just buy and brand Chinese cells at times. Panasonic does not; they have their own factories, and as far as I am aware, have never privately labeled a machine or component that they've sold.

That said, Samsung wouldn't put their name on total ****; just ****.

 

[6PTsocket]

Best warranty is one you never need. I feel its really rather moot personally as long as they're building the tools decently. $100 isn't a lot of money for a cordless tool kit so if it breaks are you really going to waste time finding an authorized service center and jerking around with that for a few weeks or are you going to spend $60 and just get another bare tool? Ditto on a $30 battery.

If you're really someone who cares about reparability and quality you're not going to be buying a $100 impact/drill kit regardless of brand. These entry tools are priced to be disposable in the first place.

It depends on your situation. I buy tools for personal use and after many years as an electronic tech, I do my own repairs. If I can get a trigger or brushes or a broken case part or a gear, in a few days, I am good. I Always prefer to repair my stuff rather than throw it away. For others it may not make economic sense but it works for me. The cost of parts is rarely so high that there is no incentive to fix the tool.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[SantaAna12]

Not on product launch.

Love it!

 

[lewis26]

Craftsman, whom I am no great fan of, is famous for their warranty. HF is famous for almost no warranty. It is still 90 days or buy a 2 year plan and they are the only so called name brand that has no part numbers on the parts breakdown sheet, that comes with the tool, because there are no spares. I will not buy throw away tools at that price. This is not a comparison to Sears but to Milwaukee, Makita,DeWalt, etc.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Craftsman WAS famous for their warranty. They've destroyed it in the last few years with more and more restrictions as to what qualifies for the lifetime warranty.

Their power tools are only warrantied for a year now.

 

[gungatim]

they may be famous for their warranty, but craftsman power tools were never lifetime warranted...their warranty is no better than HF's, probably worse IMO when they went to rebuilding ratchets instead of replacing. the only thing they had going for them was the fact that if it said craftsman and was a hand tool, you could exchange it. Not all HF hand tools are marked the same and as recognizable...

 

[kctyphoon]

I'd be interested to see if the OTHER batteries you order actually have the same cells in them..
Gotta admit the Samsung is a bit of a surprise.

 

[zendriver]

Not a rocket scientist, but it's not too hard to believe that the cost now days, to mfg a "cheap" Lion battery, is about the same as a "name brand", which might be why HF, is "moving on up!", on their battery, offerings.

Just hope our egos can handle the changes.

 

[Virgil Cain]

You've got to be careful with those. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but Samsung does just buy and brand Chinese cells at times. Panasonic does not; they have their own factories, and as far as I am aware, have never privately labeled a machine or component that they've sold.

That said, Samsung wouldn't put their name on total ****; just ****.

I am an electrical engineer that designs consumer type products and I do spec lithium secondary cells and I've never found that to be the case.

All of the Japanese and Korean battery makers do have factories in China, but they are under their own quality control processes.

It would be surprising to me to find that Samsung is even having batteries built under contract in factories that they do no own. They certainly do not to my knowledge just "rebrand" Chinese batteries under their own name.

Assuming that those are authentic Samsung batteries that is a very definite sign that Harbor Freight is stepping up it's game with this new Hercules brand.

 

[DerekV]

Cool. Thanks for posting this.

 

[SMKS]

Here's some info on the batteries. They're made at Samsung's plant in Malaysia, according to this.

https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-25r-18650-rechargeable-battery/

 

[kctyphoon]

If nothing else they probably make a good rebuild kit for another pack..

 

[Infinia]

.

Assuming that those are authentic Samsung batteries that is a very definite sign that Harbor Freight is stepping up it's game with this new Hercules brand.

Samsung, LG, Panasonic/Sanyo, Sony are 1st tier 18650 cell suppliers. AFAIK all are now produced in their own PRC factories. Its possible to get fakes buying individual cells, but i'd assume the OEM makers of tools know enough to limit their own exposure to dubious sources. Checking the known authentic colors of top positive insulation rings to the exact part numbers is a 1st level check.

 

[Corndoggeh]

Its safe to assume that HF is creeping steadily into the limelight of reputation that Craftsman used to be in. Is it wrong to think thats a good thing that a company wants to bring in higher quality tools into their line up? I'm not surprised their using Samsung cells, they would be the "underdog" brand that needs to usurp the Makita/Dewalt/Milwaukee throne.

 

[redsand187]

I wonder if those Samsung cells were made in the same factory as the exploding Galaxy Note's batteries.

 

[ckeboss]

Just a quick update. After adding a 10k ohm resistor between bat + and the temp sense pin, tool works as expected. Although, no over/under temp protection.

Like I said earlier in this thread, at $30 each, you can buy dewalt batteries on ebay, so modding these to work in dewalt tools is only really viable if either you can't get your hands on dewalt batteries where you live, or they come down in price to around $10-15. Still, a fun experiment. Will create a video and post it here with the modification to the temp sense circuit and the tools running on the batteries.

Wonder it it will be like snapon and the jack, where when Stanley sues harbor freight, they cite this thread lol.

 

[SMKS]

A guy on YouTube opened a Bauer battery and it also had Samsung cells.

 

[katiexoxo]

A 18650 cell like that costs 3-4$ retail.
Wholesale HF probably gets it for like 50 cents. So 10 cells cost them what, 5 bucks? And they sell it for 30$

 

[katiexoxo]

A more interesting question is what type of PCBs are best in these batteries?
For example Makita has incredibly complex PCBs on their batteries with all kinds of protections and whatever, while Bosch has almost nothing in theirs except for a temp sensor. And people seem to say that Bosch batteries are more reliable, you can switch cells etc. Having a freaking computer in the battery instead of the tool/charger looks like a bad idea

check this out

 

[ckeboss]

There is very little logic in the PCB. A balance controller, and a thermistor. The positive & negative are directly connected to the pins, so no overcurrent/undercurrent protection, the terminals are always "hot"