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ChrisLS8

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Probably can't use a 20% on it and that price point is getting close to where I'd just pony up the few extra bones and get a Dewalt or whatnot.

Could turn out to be a very nice drill however
 

HomeTheaterMan

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Probably can't use a 20% on it and that price point is getting close to where I'd just pony up the few extra bones and get a Dewalt or whatnot.

Could turn out to be a very nice drill however
That's the thing to me about many of their new tools. The prices are close enough to well known brands. I'd rather spend a few extra bucks and have a tool from a reputable brand that's been around for years.
 

Tallpilot

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I agree with you guys but we are the minority that shop more for quality than price even sometimes when the utility value of a cheaper option is higher. This development as I mentioned before is good for both us and the guy who buys cheaper tools. The higher quality at HF will force the low end of the product lines from the better companies to get better. So for the few dollars more we will spend on a Dewalt or Makita we will get even more than we do now.
 

ocloc24

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I thinks it fine and dandy harbor freight wants to step up their game but I really hope they don't lose all sight of the fact of why they became popular in the first place. I won't use much from harbor freight these days but my first year and a half I was wrenching professionally I used Pittsburgh until I could afford snap on. I still have alot of my Pittsburgh tools to this day as my trunk tool kits. They're still a great store for beginners or homeowners or those who need a one time tool. Hopefully these new higher end/more expensive tools are just going to compliment what they have already, and not completely replace it.

I just don't understand why anyone would pay $109 for a drill that best case scenario may share a battery with an impact driver and one or two other tools that they'll release when you can get an entry level dewalt, milwaukee, or Makita for close to or a few dollars more. It does look decently built though. I guess time will tell.

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6PTsocket

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Just saw this today at their website, looks like a Makita dewalt cross, I like the chuck, made by Jacobs.

https://www.harborfreight.com/20V-L...iOTkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk IjoiMTIxMTEifQ==
Your link shows 5 different HF stock numbers. Which is the good one? You can actually get parts for DeWalt and Mikita. Anything from HF is a throw away after 90 days, unless you BUY extended coverage. They don't fix, they exchange. After you lay out the extra money, you might as well have bought the DeWalt or Makita. Their owner's manuals have part numbers next to the parts.

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SMKS

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trekgod3

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Looks like they're using the same Chinese manufacturer as dewalt with a different color scheme. Batteries probably won't interchange. And no, the 20 percent coupons aren't good on Hercules or Bauer products.
 

jd_1138

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kctyphoon

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Because they have 2.5 batterie for $29, 5.0 batteries for only $49, an impact driver rated at 1500 inch pounds (that's the same as a brushed Milwaukee M18 impact driver, the Fuel is 1600), a hammer drill version, and accessories too.. I gotta say, it LOOKS like a pretty nice drill and impact... big step up for them.

Here's the entire Hercules line
https://t.harborfreight.com/catalog...f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=Hercules+

Gotta be honest here, the cases, and led lighting sure look like they have current TTI / Milwaukee written all over them. And the slide packs, forward/reverse switch, belt clips, sure seem like Dewalt to me. Even the older dewalt stuff hade led lights light that I believe.

Pics go - impact, drill, hammer drill, 2.5 battery, 5.0 battery, separate soft case.

IMG_2115.jpg

IMG_2116.jpg

IMG_2121.jpg

IMG_2122.jpg

For comparison-
IMG_2123.jpg

IMG_2118.jpg

IMG_2120.jpg
 
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dnschmidt

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Harbor Freight has now reached critical mass. They have more stores on Phoenix than anybody except Home Depot. This move up the food chain is exactly the tactic used by Epson in the printer wars and it worked to perfection. Don't sell these guys short. If you do you're going to lose.
 

jd_1138

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Harbor Freight has now reached critical mass. They have more stores on Phoenix than anybody except Home Depot. This move up the food chain is exactly the tactic used by Epson in the printer wars and it worked to perfection. Don't sell these guys short. If you do you're going to lose.

If they can ramp up the quality. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
 

larryq

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Only a 90 day warranty on the Hercules and Bauer tools? Hard to switch from Milwaukee or Makita based on that...
 

Loscaldazar

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Your link shows 5 different HF stock numbers. Which is the good one? You can actually get parts for DeWalt and Mikita. Anything from HF is a throw away after 90 days, unless you BUY extended coverage. They don't fix, they exchange. After you lay out the extra money, you might as well have bought the DeWalt or Makita. Their owner's manuals have part numbers next to the parts.

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And then Milwaukee, Makita, or DeWalt will charge you $60 for a trigger on your $100 drill. The only power tools I've ever repaired have been my father's really, really, really, old Milwaukee corded drills, and the parts weren't cheap for that either. I had my porter cable 20V drill break (it's a DeWalt drill, many parts even interchange) and they wanted $70 for the front half/gearing of the drill. It was $90 new with two batteries. Same story with every other power tool that I've had break. When it breaks, it's usually only a few bucks more to get a new one with a few more batteries or a charger.

They purposely price the repair parts high so that you just buy a new one. That's just an industry standard at this point.

Only a 90 day warranty on the Hercules and Bauer tools? Hard to switch from Milwaukee or Makita based on that...

I doubt they are looking to steal away Milwaukee, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch, etc users. They're aiming mostly for Black and Decker (I would buy one of these HF ones over a crappy B&D anyway, those are truly junk). Also a bit fro Ryobi, Porter Cable, Kobalt, and other lower tier, but decent, power tools.

Before someone jumps in asking why compare themselves to DeWalt then, ask why did they compare themselves to Snap On? Do you really think HF thought they were producing tools as good as Snap On? No, but if they advertise their tools as competitive with the presumed "best" in the industry, that'll sway a lot of homeowners over to their brand, thinking it's a good brand.

Think of it this way, if a new car company comes in and starts advertising their vehicles are almost as fast as a Ferrari (and many current car companies do this actually, saying their sport model was faster than "insert exotic car" in "obscure metric of performance") or they came in and said it will absolutely smash a Toyota Camry in a drag race (both easily would apply to the same car), how does your perception of the car differ? By comparing to a Ferrari, they ride on the coattails of Ferrari just by saying that their car can do somethings an exotic car can do.

Same concept here, compare your products to a high quality, well known, established tool brand, and even if they aren't as good, the average consumer has the perception that Hercules and DeWalt are competitors, so the Hercules must be good if it can be compared to the DeWalt. When a consumer is shopping the Hercules against Ryobi, PC, and B&D by price point, the perception of quality remains and they are likely to buy it because they believe it to be a superior tool. This is essentially psychology in marketing, and it's super effective on most people who are not very well informed.
 
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mbshop

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This is what is sad, a throw away society. We used to fix things, a certain pride in that. Now it's toss and buy, no parts available or are rediculous as stated.
 

zendriver

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Why would anyone buy that HF one when they can get a Makita, DeWalt, or Milwaukee for the same price?

Here's a 2 drill Makita 12V kit for $99. You get an impact drill, regular drill, 2 batteries, charger. Granted it's only 12V, but it'd work for 85% of homeowners. Or they can get the 18V kit for just a little more.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...on-Cordless-Combo-Kit-2-Piece-CT226/206106306



If they are all made in China, some possibly made in the same factories, what difference does it make, other than ego?

The drills that you listed, only has a 90 day warranty as well, and they're not even similar specs as the OP.


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OP
R

Ratchet Guy

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If the battery prove to be interchangeable between the dewalt, this would be a hole for some consumer to look into it.

Because they have 2.5 batterie for $29, 5.0 batteries for only $49, an impact driver rated at 1500 inch pounds (that's the same as a brushed Milwaukee M18 impact driver, the Fuel is 1600), a hammer drill version, and accessories too.. I gotta say, it LOOKS like a pretty nice drill and impact... big step up for them.

Here's the entire Hercules line
https://t.harborfreight.com/catalog...f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=Hercules+

Gotta be honest here, the cases, and led lighting sure look like they have current TTI / Milwaukee written all over them. And the slide packs, forward/reverse switch, belt clips, sure seem like Dewalt to me. Even the older dewalt stuff hade led lights light that I believe.

Pics go - impact, drill, hammer drill, 2.5 battery, 5.0 battery, separate soft case.

IMG_2115.jpg

IMG_2116.jpg

IMG_2121.jpg

IMG_2122.jpg

For comparison-
IMG_2123.jpg

IMG_2118.jpg

IMG_2120.jpg
 
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Fender1325

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Looks nice but that's pretty much dewalt money. This will flop because there's no advantage really. I'm sure it's a nice drill, I really am, but the market doesn't need an unknown brand competing for the same price point as several other household name brands that are doing it just fine
 

kctyphoon

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Depends.. contractors have a job going on and they NEED a drill, if Hf is closer this gives them an option.. I bet more of these will sell then the new Kobalt line which seems to be a complete flop since they can't even sell batteries for $10..

If Hf was smart, they'd offer a combo kit and bare tool options like every other company does.. I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route since their torque claims are competing with professional brands now..

Someone with a 20v Dewalt battery should take a trip to the store and see if the Dewalt batteries work in those tools.. $29 for a spare battery for the Dewalt guys would push sales. I'd expect a teardown of these tools to reveal close competition to some of the entry-level pro choices.
 
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Farmall450

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Depends.. contractors have a job going on and they NEED a drill, if Hf is closer this gives them an option.. I bet more of these will sell then the new Kobalt line which seems to be a complete flop since they can't even sell batteries for $10..

If Hf was smart, they'd offer a combo kit and bare tool options like every other company does.. I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route since their torque claims are competing with professional brands now..

Someone with a 20v Dewalt battery should take a trip to the store and see if the Dewalt batteries work in those tools.. $29 for a spare battery for the Dewalt guys would push sales. I'd expect a teardown of these tools to reveal close competition to some of the entry-level pro choices.

I doubt they will. While they do have the same 5 slots, SB&D was smart enough to not make 20v B&D or Porter Cable batteries compatible w/ the DeWalts...at least out of the box.
 

Empty Pockets

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Why would anyone buy that HF one when they can get a Makita, DeWalt, or Milwaukee for the same price?

Here's a 2 drill Makita 12V kit for $99. You get an impact drill, regular drill, 2 batteries, charger. Granted it's only 12V, but it'd work for 85% of homeowners. Or they can get the 18V kit for just a little more.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...on-Cordless-Combo-Kit-2-Piece-CT226/206106306

Makita has a 3 year warranty (at least on the battery), while HF has 90 days. Enough said
 
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reader2580

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Harbor Freight is charging $109 for this drill with one 2.5AH battery. Meanwhile, Home Depot currently has a Makita LXT drill with one 3.0AH battery for $99 with three year warranty. Home Depot also has a Makita impact driver with one 3.0AH battery for the same $99.

I would take the Makita in a heartbeat over anything HF sells.

Home Depot has also been selling a Ryobi combo kit with drill, impact driver, and two 1.5AH batteries for $99. The batteries are smaller, but you get two tools and again a three year warranty. Great for the DIY types.
 

Skin

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Only a 90 day warranty on the Hercules and Bauer tools? Hard to switch from Milwaukee or Makita based on that...

Personally, I feel the best warranty is one you never need to use. That said extra $25 and you can in store exchange for 2 years vs the included Warranty with a name brand where you'll be without the tool for weeks.
 

jonesg

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I'd be interested to see Ave do a teardown with his knowledge of the Dewilt & Milsucky for comparison.

Its a given the HF battery lacks internal circuitry, might have a 50% lifespan but they cost 50% less.
Great for homeowners, a joke for pro's.
 

zendriver

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This is what is sad, a throw away society. We used to fix things, a certain pride in that. Now it's toss and buy, no parts available or are rediculous as stated.



Businesses are in business to make money, verses living in the past, so it makes business sense, to sell a whole new $99 drill versus a $4 switch.

Plus, models, technology, design etc. changes constantly, so it costs money to make, store distribute repair parts, for a inexpensive product, that might have a one year product lifecycle.

Those obsessed with factory jobs should realize as well, that there are more jobs in building complete drills, than making replacement switches for them.


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reader2580

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Those obsessed with factory jobs should realize as well, that there are more jobs in building complete drills, than making replacement switches for them.

The switches are being manufactured to build the drills now. The manufacturer just needs to order some extra switches for parts inventory. I am sure the warehousing and distribution costs more than the switch itself.

I have a Makita LXT drill from when LXT first came out that I think has a bad switch, but I haven't wanted to spend $30 on a switch to find out.
 

Parrothead

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This is what is sad, a throw away society. We used to fix things, a certain pride in that. Now it's toss and buy, no parts available or are rediculous as stated.

I understand the sentiment, but not the reality. I have my grandfathers corded drill and it still works but I never use it. Why? It didn't come with variable speed, it's got a 3/8 chuck, and because it's all metal and as heavy as two modern drills together, I'm more likely to use it as a hammer than a drill. Does it really pay to keep it running forever? No. I have a DeWalt cordless hammer drill, drill, and corded drill, along with a cheap Skil bought at Walmart. I'd use any of them before the old drill. Point being on most things technology keeps improving even the most basic of items, see the Snap On flank drive and Wright wrightgrip as an example. Does the old stuff still work? Sure! Is there often a better, newer version? Quite often.
 

6PTsocket

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Businesses are in business to make money, verses living in the past, so it makes business sense, to sell a whole new $99 drill versus a $4 switch.

Plus, models, technology, design etc. changes constantly, so it costs money to make, store distribute repair parts, for a inexpensive product, that might have a one year product lifecycle.

Those obsessed with factory jobs should realize as well, that there are more jobs in building complete drills, than making replacement switches for them.


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Great for them in the short term. If you buy tools as throw aways then it is fine for you, too. There is a thing called customer service. Companies that sell good tools like, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Makita stock parts to maintan that reputation. I bought a new base for an otherwise good Milwaukee router that had not been made for many years. If you make a good tool with no customer support other than buying an extended warranty, you could have bought a good brand tool for almost the same money. I would be sorely pissed off if I had to throw out a tool for lack of some little plastic part. Lack of service is the HF business model. Fine for them. It does nothing for me. I buy inexpensive stuff there that I have no expectation of repairing and some of it has lasted a long time.

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6PTsocket

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Looks nice but that's pretty much dewalt money. This will flop because there's no advantage really. I'm sure it's a nice drill, I really am, but the market doesn't need an unknown brand competing for the same price point as several other household name brands that are doing it just fine
You are right. I totally agree with you.But there is a market for everything. People still still buy Craftsman based on a name that has been in the dumper for years. HF has a reputation for low prices and people will buy their "new and improved" stuff even if it does not make make economic sense to spend enough to buy a reputable brand. If you doubt it, read some of the posts here.People develop loyalties to companies, whether earned or not.They chase bargains even when it isn't one. People shop at Amazon for low prices without comparing. Sometimes their prices are terrible.

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6PTsocket

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Depends.. contractors have a job going on and they NEED a drill, if Hf is closer this gives them an option.. I bet more of these will sell then the new Kobalt line which seems to be a complete flop since they can't even sell batteries for $10..

If Hf was smart, they'd offer a combo kit and bare tool options like every other company does.. I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route since their torque claims are competing with professional brands now..

Someone with a 20v Dewalt battery should take a trip to the store and see if the Dewalt batteries work in those tools.. $29 for a spare battery for the Dewalt guys would push sales. I'd expect a teardown of these tools to reveal close competition to some of the entry-level pro choices.
HF has figured out how to make as much money as possible and made the owner incredibly rich. If there was a more profitible way to package their stuff he would be on it. I don't think they depend on despiration sales by contractors to move their stuff.

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zendriver

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Great for them in the short term. If you buy tools as throw aways then it is fine for you, too. There is a thing called customer service. Companies that sell good tools like, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Makita stock parts to maintan that reputation. I bought a new base for an otherwise good Milwaukee router that had not been made for many years. If you make a good tool with no customer support other than buying an extended warranty, you could have bought a good brand tool for almost the same money. I would be sorely pissed off if I had to throw out a tool for lack of some little plastic part. Lack of service is the HF business model. Fine for them. It does nothing for me. I buy inexpensive stuff there that I have no expectation of repairing and some of it has lasted a long time.

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It's not hard to imagine if consumers preferred customer service the the availability of parts, over super Low prices, Harbor freight and many other companies would have gone out of business decades ago.

Their successes consumer driven.

I have an $85 floor jack thats work fine for 10 years now. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the availability is for parts at that price. Maybe it will last forever maybe it won't.


If people are concerned with the availability of spare parts and they should look at the manufactures you mentioned



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sberry

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There is some good thought in this thread even if I don't agree with every detail. Comparisons have a lot to do with price positioning.
 

Corndoggeh

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I understand the sentiment, but not the reality. I have my grandfathers corded drill and it still works but I never use it. Why? It didn't come with variable speed, it's got a 3/8 chuck, and because it's all metal and as heavy as two modern drills together, I'm more likely to use it as a hammer than a drill. Does it really pay to keep it running forever? No. I have a DeWalt cordless hammer drill, drill, and corded drill, along with a cheap Skil bought at Walmart. I'd use any of them before the old drill. Point being on most things technology keeps improving even the most basic of items, see the Snap On flank drive and Wright wrightgrip as an example. Does the old stuff still work? Sure! Is there often a better, newer version? Quite often.

I'd have to disagree slightly on the metal drill part, Ive got a Cman 1/2" metal drill and a milwaukee 3/8", both single speed of off or balls to the wall and they were exactly what i needed for my welding projects. My cordless drills kept getting hung up when they had to break a chip but with those two are monsters... so its worth it for me to fix those two if they break because to get an equivalent new tool would be much more expensive. Fixing old tools just takes a bit of ingenuity... or parts harvesting from another tool or just putting in a cheap modern equivalent.

I might have to check out the hercules and bauer models in store. Ive been thinking of replacing some of my B&D and some makita cordless tools but have been debating on pulling the trigger on cheap HF with cheap batteries (i always need a lot of batteries no matter their Ah rating) or going for a more primo brand but paying a testicle per battery
 
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DerekV

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I bet these new cordless tools are pretty "alright", but the prices are WAY too close to reputable brands. And the battery prices are "meh". You can rather effortlessly find BNIP name brand batteries on CL/eBay/Amazon for virtually the same price.

Additionally, who's to say they'll make more tools/accessories on these platforms? We're talking about Harbor Freight here...a place that constantly "refreshes" its products, if not cans them all together. Other established brands have at LEAST a decent selection of tools/accessories to choose from among their respective platforms. So pay the same price for the same quality tool that offers no other tools to expand on?

And to pile more on top of this mound ****, they have 8 battery platforms. EIGHT! 18v NiCad Drill Master, 18v NiCad Chicago Electric, 12v Li-Ion Chicago Electric, 12V Li-Ion Earthquake (AC Delco ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Earthquake (Milwaukee M18 ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Bauer (20v Porter Cable ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Hercules (Makita LXT ripoff), and 40v Li-Ion Lynxx (Milwaukee M18 XC battery design with all cells in series) - at the very least, they've created brands that'll cannibalize themselves. And a very real sample scenario: you want the Earthquake 12/20v ratchet/compact impact/high torque impact and a Hercules drill/impact driver. All seem to be decent and on the upper end of the HFT offerings. That's 3 different chargers and 3 different sets of batteries...not cheap and very inconvenient. It's impractical. It's nonsense.

I see virtually no value with these new HFT cordless tools when comparing them to the competition. They need to cut their prices in half and offer at least 3 yr warranties on all of them. Only then will their place in the market make sense.

My $0.02
 

zendriver

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I bet these new cordless tools are pretty "alright", but the prices are WAY too close to reputable brands. And the battery prices are "meh". You can rather effortlessly find BNIP name brand batteries on CL/eBay/Amazon for virtually the same price.

Additionally, who's to say they'll make more tools/accessories on these platforms? We're talking about Harbor Freight here...a place that constantly "refreshes" its products, if not cans them all together. Other established brands have at LEAST a decent selection of tools/accessories to choose from among their respective platforms. So pay the same price for the same quality tool that offers no other tools to expand on?

And to pile more on top of this mound ****, they have 8 battery platforms. EIGHT! 18v NiCad Drill Master, 18v NiCad Chicago Electric, 12v Li-Ion Chicago Electric, 12V Li-Ion Earthquake (AC Delco ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Earthquake (Milwaukee M18 ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Bauer (20v Porter Cable ripoff), 20v Li-Ion Hercules (Makita LXT ripoff), and 40v Li-Ion Lynxx (Milwaukee M18 XC battery design with all cells in series) - at the very least, they've created brands that'll cannibalize themselves. And a very real sample scenario: you want the Earthquake 12/20v ratchet/compact impact/high torque impact and a Hercules drill/impact driver. All seem to be decent and on the upper end of the HFT offerings. That's 3 different chargers and 3 different sets of batteries...not cheap and very inconvenient. It's impractical. It's nonsense.

I see virtually no value with these new HFT cordless tools when comparing them to the competition. They need to cut their prices in half and offer at least 3 yr warranties on all of them. Only then will their place in the market make sense.

My $0.02



To each his own, but personally I don't feel qualified, to bash The quality of one of these drills, since I've never used one, or to even bash Harbor freight, for that matter for their business decisions, since I've never run a Company with "x" billions of annual revenue (since they are privately owned), with 700 stores and 17,000 employees.

HF Quality has improved, but their prices are indeed going up. If and when it gets to the point where it sat "apples to apples" since they are most all made overseas comparison with other manufactures, then it will be just another "brand" decision that will need to be made.

HF already has a fair amount of brand loyalty.



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DerekV

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To each his own, but personally I don't feel qualified, to bash The quality of one of these drills, since I've never used one, or to even bash Harbor freight, for that matter for their business decisions, since I've never run a Company with "x" billions of annual revenue (since they are privately owned), with 700 stores and 17,000 employees.

HF Quality has improved, but their prices are indeed going up. If and when it gets to the point where it sat "apples to apples" since they are most all made overseas comparison with other manufactures, then it will be just another "brand" decision that will need to be made.

HF already has a fair amount of brand loyalty.


I never bashed the quality of these new offerings. In fact, if you read what I wrote, I said that they're probably "pretty alright". I've held some of their new tools, including the new Bauer roto hammers and Hercules angle grinders and they are at the very least seemingly on-par (if not, then not far off) with the Dewalt/Milwaukee/Makita/etc. offerings. The corded tools, however, are a different story and I believe that those will reel in some success for HFT since they're priced much MUCH more reasonably. They're actually cheaper than the competition and appear to be of at least the same quality. Easy sale.

Cordless is just different. There are a lot of costs involved, and there's certainly an art to getting everything "just right". The problem is that the market is pretty much saturated. There really aren't many holes where certain markets aren't getting taken care of. These new cordless offerings aren't winning on any front: cost, options, warranty, breadth of product line, proven performance/reliability/innovation (lol, HFT)/customer service/etc. IF they hold an advantage in any of those categories, it's extremely slight, and even then they come up miles short in the others. IMHO the only thing that would truly set them apart (aside from offering unique/industry-first innovative cordless tools/accessories, again LOL) would be to offer the same or better quality item at a much cheaper cost. If that Hercules drill set is basically identical to the Dewalt, but say half the price, it then may be worth the performance/reliability gamble and (extreme) sacrifice in product line breadth.

There are MANY historical examples of big, successful companies making terrible decisions...but thanks for implying that I'm not "qualified" to speak on the subject (I mean, if you're not, then we ALL aren't!) ;) Their cordless tool recipes/strategies just don't make sense - you don't need to be a Harvard Business grad to figure that out!
 
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