Harbor Freight still sells junk

[Ipassgas]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

And yes, I'm old enough to know what HF is and what to expect . . .

 

[Colin Len]

I love Harbor Freight. And generally, their stuff is getting better over time as we see many other brands getting worse.

The trick is knowing what to buy and what to stay away from. Same deal with Ikea - they make some really nice stuff that is surprisingly high quality but they also sell a bunch of poor quality stuff. Just need to be smart about your purchases.

 

[FigN⋅m]

lol. What was that thing - like a dollar? Re-crimp it and move on.
Focus on getting the bike riding proper

 

[four.cycle]

Too bad I'm going to be out of town the next few days... I'm sure this one will turn out to be interesting entertaining.

 

[dnschmidt]

Oh my God. A news flash. All the news channels will put the "breaking news" banner up.

 

[rust in the eye]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

And yes, I'm old enough to know what HF is and what to expect . . .

Are these the skinny wire ones that come in a set of 5(?) in various colors?
I had same issue, mine was intermittent to boot. Hacked me off a bit too when discovered but what do you want for a couple of bucks? I knew they were crappy when I bought 'em. You and I are the QC
Moral of the story; Don't buy again or check continuity out of the package.

 

[zendriver]

Judging the quality of an entire retail chain by a $.40 cable?

As far as quality control, maybe some of them are fine

They usually don’t check every one

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

And that is why you always check meters and accessories against a ‘known source’ before use.

No matter if it‘s HF, Fluke or Gossen-Metrawatt.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[dcg1]

My approach to HF is to just not buy anything there that will kill me if it fails, and that has worked out really well for me so far

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have a set of them. . . I made them myself. Awesome QC.

 

[RTM]

Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity

I always start with clip to clip as my first test when doing continuity testing. Then start suspecting your tools.

At least you weren't looking for voltage, and believing the zero.

 

[sparky 1971]

Every company sells junk. Sometimes the product is junk and was designed that way, sometimes it's a good product with a defect that may have slipped past QC. I think a piece of wire that didn't get properly crimped falls into the latter and surely isn't worthy of a rant.

 

[allinon72]

HF is just like every other store but on a slightly higher level….90% of the store contains junk not worth buying.

 

[finn]

Every company sells junk. Sometimes the product is junk and was designed that way, sometimes it's a good product with a defect that may have slipped past QC. I think a piece of wire that didn't get properly crimped falls into the latter and surely isn't worthy of a rant.

Inspection isn’t the same as quality control. Ther used to be a saying, possibly from Dr Demming, that’s something like 100%inspection is 75% effective.

Quality systems that are effective rely on mechanisms that allow in proses monitoring and feedback that alerts management and floor personnel that something is deviating.

That’s what’s driven a lot of the automation we see. It’s better to have systems that identify “drifts” in process rather than paying a bunch of people to sit and “ inspect “, and ultimately throw out a bunch of parts that have already been produce, and still miss a lot of bad pieces.

 

[BTL-A4]

I'm betting this thread will go over several pages.

 

[AEAdam]

Judging the quality of an entire retail chain by a $.40 cable?

As far as quality control, maybe some of them are fine

They usually don’t check every one

Which means "they don't check any of them"

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

News Flash: No they absolutely do not.

We are the QC department for MANY manufacturers. They traded actual QC departments for money back guarantees, lifetime warrantees etc. If it isn't good enough for you, you return it. Thats how it works now. As Zendriver pointed out, you can't hate HF for a $3 item. The trouble is, it isn't just $3 items. It could be cars, windows, HVAC units, dishwashers, all sorts of stuff

Anyone notice the new message in Amazon items that says "This item is frequently returned"? That's given me pause on several items I was purchasing.

In my machine shop, I have relied on used equipment and new chinese equipment. The first step on this path was to establish an in house inspection department. If I can't inspect functionality, I typically won't buy. One of my first purchases was a surface plate. That was also second hand and it needs to get inspected and I can't do that myself yet (but its been good enough).

You need to do continuity checks on stuff like that. Maybe resistance checks. Iphone charging wires, HDMI cables, you really can't trust any of that stuff.

 

[bwringer]

Yeah, there's still a lot of **** in there. This is not a news flash.

What's very different about HF is that, over time, the percentage of **** is declining.

Name me one other store or nationwide business of any kind that's improving in overall quality.

 

[sparky 1971]

Inspection isn’t the same as quality control. Ther used to be a saying, possibly from Dr Demming, that’s something like 100%inspection is 75% effective.

Quality systems that are effective rely on mechanisms that allow in proses monitoring and feedback that alerts management and floor personnel that something is deviating.

That’s what’s driven a lot of the automation we see. It’s better to have systems that identify “drifts” in process rather than paying a bunch of people to sit and “ inspect “, and ultimately throw out a bunch of parts that have already been produce, and still miss a lot of bad pieces.

Call it whatever you want. Maybe I used the wrong terminology, but it doesn't change the fact that a wire with a bad crimp got out the door. And it still isn't worth a rant and could have probably been fixed in less time than it took to make the post.

 

[finn]

[QUOTE="sparky 1971, post: 11080383, member: 365293
Call it whatever you want. Maybe I used the wrong terminology, but it doesn't change the fact that a wire with a bad crimp got out the door. And it still isn't worth a rant and could have probably been fixed in less time than it took to make the post.
[/QUOTE]
I agree, but I’m just saying it’s a systemic problem where they’re evidently still doing things like was done 100 years ago, rather than implementing mathematically based systems like those that Dr Demming brought to Japan after WW II.

I’ve pretty much sworn off HF, but given their hours, sometimes they’re the only game in town. Haven’t had any bad experiences with the dozen things I hav picked up from them in the past couple of years, though.

 

[dscheidt]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

Always test your test leads. Cheap ones use insulation displacement crimps, and can fail from flexing. Even good ones can have problems, and staring with something you know works is vital.

a few years ago, someone lent me a test lead set. I checked them for continuity and resistance first thing. one was open, and when I cut it open to see if it could be fixed, I discovered there was no wire in it. Just a piece of insulation with two alligator clips on it. I am pretty sure those came from amazon, not hf, but either way, utter ****.

 

[M635_Guy]

 

[PittsburghTim]

My approach to HF is to just not buy anything there that will kill me if it fails, and that has worked out really well for me so far

I agree. I would never use their jack stands or jacks for that matter. Big consequences if they fail. I only purchase chip brushes, moving blankets, and other non-critical items. I've only purchased one power tool and, in that case, I had a single project in mind. I donated the tool to the Salvation Army when done. Life is too short to spend time fussing with poor quality tools. I do have one of their 26 inch US General boxes to house my power carving equipment and supplies and it serves its purpose well.

 

[Leon bee]

Oh boy. I bought one thing at HF about 15 years ago......it broke instantly when I got home. Didn't even work the hoped for 1 time. That was it for me. Until last year I went in one out on the road to use the toilet and happened to buy one of those heavy rubber wheel chock deals. Liked it so much I stopped and bought another on the way home. Didn't see anything else that tempted me.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Overheard during production of a recent commercial.........

"At Harbor Freight we have a saying.....you the customer are quality control."


And FWIW "ICON" IMO is hideously overpriced for what it is. I'll never own any of it.

 

[zendriver]

I'm betting this thread will go over several pages.

Indeed

There was a mile-long thread here a while ago, about the "kopper" wire used in these 50 cent test leads.

 

[zendriver]

I love Harbor Freight. And generally, their stuff is getting better over time as we see many other brands getting worse.

Same here, probably 80% of the stuff in my garage is from there.

Kinda glad the haters stay away. More parking spaces at the stores and helps keep prices from going higher than they already are.

 

[American Locomotive]

Of course HF still sells junk, they also still sell decent stuff too.

But also it's worth mentioning that clip leads are seemingly almost universally terrible and unreliable unless you shell out for premium ones from high-end brands. Some are even coming with steel wire these days. I've had so many clip and test leads from various low-to-mid price points cause me grief, it's incredible.

As far as "QC" goes, most companies do not check or test every item they produce unless they can do it in such a way that the cost to check each item is essentially free. In other words, they'll only do 100% inspection if they can automate the checks in-process without slowing production down or require additional labor/handling.

The way many, if not most companies will do QC, is that they will test a random amount of product from each batch. If they find defects in their random sample, they'll either scrap the batch or do a manual sort/test of product. How big each batch is will depend on their defect rate, how much product they're willing to throw out, and how much bad product they're potentially willing to ship. The system isn't perfect, and the occasional bad product will get shipped out.

and before someone complains and corrects me, I am aware that some companies for some product lines do indeed perform 100% inspection on product, and that it's becoming more common. $0.05 clipleads probably aren't those.

 

[Notgrownup]

I like harbor freight and I am a ITC member. I use a lot of 5heir products and will keep using them. I draw the line at some things.

 

[dchawk81]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

And yes, I'm old enough to know what HF is and what to expect . . .

I bought a Schumacher battery charger that was like that. I'd start a thread but it was like 10 years ago.

 

[lardy1]

The first sentence kinda set the tone. Kick back and enjoy another episode.

 

[Basskiller]

.

 

[BrandonV]

Those leads are also I think copper coated steel. Junk.

 

[FigN⋅m]

Side note - I invented a game:

"The Harbor Hundy"

You have to 100 min to drink 100 oz. of booze of choice. You then get chauffeured to HF and get 10.0 min to spend $100.
You have to wait 1.00 day to see what you bought. You then have 100 hours to document how those purchases perform.

 

[David99]

I have a set of them. . . I made them myself. Awesome QC.

I can see it now-

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I will give HF it's due with the US General boxes. I have the 56 (S1) top and bottom and a 44" bottom. Great value for the money. Very happy with them. HF has some decent things no doubt, I just think ICON is overpriced.

 

[n8n]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

And yes, I'm old enough to know what HF is and what to expect . . .

there was a thread not long ago about the cheap test leads being junk. I'd love to find a source for inexpensive ones that aren't because I was using them on my electrolysis tank as they're consumable in that application. It certainly explains why the last couple years I had it set up it gave me a lot more trouble than I'd had before.

The last piece I restored before I packed it up was a Griswold large block logo #8 skillet, good to go out on a high note. Except I've collected more stuff to restore so it may get set up again this spring.

 

[NHtoolguy]

I hate Harbor Freight. But the ICON stuff is pretty solid.

Anyway, I'm troubleshooting the lack of brake light with front brake activation on the motorcycle.

I have a HF jumper lead- wire, alligator clips, plastic boots, you get it. And for the life if me I don't understand the results of my various tests. Basically nothing, eventually even a screwdriver, has continuity.

I pulled the little boots back and one side has no wire sticking out of the insulation.

I get that they make stuff as cheap as Chinese labor will allow, but do they do any QC at all?

And yes, I'm old enough to know what HF is and what to expect . . .

Your experience is an interesting one. I suppose no one should assume their test leads are good until they verify them, prior to running any tests.

 

[Kscardsfan]

Indeed

There was a mile-long thread here a while ago, about the "kopper" wire used in these 50 cent test leads.

Is that from the same company that makes the "Krab" meat you get at prices too low to be true?

 

[niget2002]

I only go there for the smell.

 

[txvwnut]

I once heard from a Chinese source about manufacturing. The basic gist of the conversation was, you want us to make it cheap? We'll make it cheap and you get cheap. You want better? We'll make better but it will cost more.