Harborfreight idiocy

[derosa]

I've needed a cheap set of deep sockets and a breaker bar for the bicycle clinic I run, something that can be used to remove axle nuts on BMX bikes with pegs. Since I teach kids how to do the repairs a 3/8 setup would seem to be the way to go figuring a smaller breaker bar means less chance of over tightening the axle nuts; cheap means HF. One trip to HF results in a breaker bar that is immense for 3/8 and the discovery that their deep socket set is 10-17mm, 19 and 21mm. I noticed at the same time the 1/2" bar was the exact same bar with a 1/2" stub while the 1/2 deep sockets are 10-19mm, no 21 .
Seems like the 3/8 should be something like 8-19mm while the 1/2" should be 12-21, why the hell would they even need a 21mm 3/8 or a 10mm 1/2".

It does explain the worst reviews on the 3/8 bar, virtually all of which give negative marks for tearing off the end while doing lug nuts. That's cause a HF set up for my two Mazda's with 21mm lug nuts would be their 3/8 set up off the shelf but not their 1/2 which doesn't go that big in 1/2 chrome.

Ended up swapping the 3/8 end onto my old sears companion 1/2" bar which is 2" shorter and 1lb lighter and the 1/2 end onto the new HF bar. Turned out despite the 12 year age and brand difference there is no difference between the heads other then the size of the square.

 

[joecon]

I use a 3/8 21mm socket to tighten the hub caps that have plastic nuts that
fold them on.

 

[gdocktor3]

I use a 3/8 21mm socket to tighten the hub caps that have plastic nuts that
fold them on.

Ya but those only spec out to 70 ft lbs if memory serves correct. The Mazda the op mentioned gets around 90 ft lbs on the lug nuts. You can get away with a 3/8" 21mm

 

[dnschmidt]

The 3/8" bar will take off any Mazda lug nut ever made. People tearing off the square drive are using a cheater bar without a doubt.

 

[Greg85mcss]

Always thought it was pointless to have 1/2 for anything less than 19mm unless it's something I can't get with a long ratchet or impact gun. I have that hf 3/8 set & a craftsman 1/2 set that only goes to 19. I always wondered about that & also why 12 points are more common than 6 in 1/2" which are used more for strength than precision.


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[Gmonkee]

HF sells some screwy **** and their sets of tools do have odd ranges but...

One should see the limits of each drive size and use common sense before trying to remove tires with small drive sizes. Be smarter than the lugnuts at least.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

1/2" drive for bicycles or a breaker bar… yeah, not the "right" tool.

Buy a 3/8" Pittsburg Pro ratchet (looks and functions nearly like a SO dual-80) and costs ~$20. Splurge and get a standard and long (8" vs. 14" IIRC) length. In addition a 3/8" metric socket set… done. Though they skip some sizes, so be sure you get what you need. A 1/4" drive setup, would be beneficial for bicycles as well. 3/8" is a little overkill, but a good compromise.

Sockets for all drive sizes overlap to a degree and that's a good thing. Sometimes you need a smaller drive (smaller ratchet for accesability), sometimes you need a larger one. Hell 1/2" drive sockets go down to 12 mm or so… must be for some hi-tensile fasteners or ones rusted to hell (which happens here up North). For example, sometimes all I need is a standard length 3/8" ratchet to remove a 17 mm fastener, but if that fastener is a lug nut, then I need a long 1/2" ratchet.

 

[derosa]

The 3/8" bar will take off any Mazda lug nut ever made. People tearing off the square drive are using a cheater bar without a doubt.

I suspect with a lot of the reviews you have people over torquing putting on the lug nuts or dealing with a shop over tightening the lug nuts. In which case I find a quick step on the end of my 1/2" breaker does the job. 3/8 would not take that for long.

HF sells some screwy **** and their sets of tools do have odd ranges but...

One should see the limits of each drive size and use common sense before trying to remove tires with small drive sizes. Be smarter than the lugnuts at least.

You would think common sense would come in but based on the average 1&2 star reviews I think the size of the handle inspires stupidity. Just wondering if socket selection doesn't help the issue.

1/2" drive for bicycles or a breaker bar… yeah, not the "right" tool.

Buy a 3/8" Pittsburg Pro ratchet (looks and functions nearly like a SO dual-80) and costs ~$20. Splurge and get a standard and long (8" vs. 14" IIRC) length. In addition a 3/8" metric socket set… done. Though they skip some sizes, so be sure you get what you need. A 1/4" drive setup, would be beneficial for bicycles as well. 3/8" is a little overkill, but a good compromise.

Sockets for all drive sizes overlap to a degree and that's a good thing. Sometimes you need a smaller drive (smaller ratchet for accesability), sometimes you need a larger one. Hell 1/2" drive sockets go down to 12 mm or so… must be for some hi-tensile fasteners or ones rusted to hell (which happens here up North). For example, sometimes all I need is a standard length 3/8" ratchet to remove a 17 mm fastener, but if that fastener is a lug nut, then I need a long 1/2" ratchet.

I've always found 3/8 to be good for bikes. The breaker bar is for bmx axle bolts with pegs where they need to be a little tighter or are already too tight. Stuck crank or stem bolts, BB removal tool. Otherwise just wrenches do the job, finding and switching sockets seems slower so I don't know anyone who does it.

 

[gdocktor3]

also why 12 points are more common than 6 in 1/2" which are used more for strength than precision.


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I think its because 1/2" ratchets and breaker bars especially are so big and long. With 12 point socket's you can get more leverage with your breaker bar than a 6 point because of the different positions you can set it at. Lets say this star is a nut/bolt and it's tight between two walls. I * I The 12 point, because of the large number of point's positions, will allow the breaker bar to start its swing closer to the wall providing a larger sweep to loosen the bolt. The 6 point may only catch somewhere in the middle, depending on the orientation of nut, and allow 1/2 a swing each time. This is just an example hopefully you can understand what I mean.

 

[gtlaw]

The goofy colored set has 10-19.

 

[Fretters]

why the hell would they even need a 21mm 3/8 or a 10mm 1/2".

Convenience. It's a damn sight easier to lug a pocketful of one size fitting of sockets and one ratchet around than it is to carry several ratchets and their respective sockets. Not everyone works in on near a workshop or tool chest. With regards size, whether it be 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2" drive, (or even above), the problem isn't with the tool if something gets broken. The user is the one who should be using their noggin and deciding how much pressure to apply, rather than relying on a short/skinny handle to limit them.

 

[justanengineer]

Seems like the 3/8 should be something like 8-19mm while the 1/2" should be 12-21, why the hell would they even need a 21mm 3/8 or a 10mm 1/2".

Practicality. Large 3/8" drive sockets are great for large low-torque fasteners or running large fasteners down quickly in small spaces when you only want to use larger ratchets for final torque. One old trick is to put 1/2" guts into a 3/8" ratchet, same idea. Small 1/2" sockets are great for breaking small questionable fasteners loose. When the difference between a loose fastener and a broken one is 50 vs 55 lb-ft due to rust, you get much more control with bigger/longer handled drive tools. I regularly and carefully use my 24" SK breaker with 1/4 sockets bc I hate removing broken fasteners.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I suspect with a lot of the reviews you have people over torquing putting on the lug nuts or dealing with a shop over tightening the lug nuts. In which case I find a quick step on the end of my 1/2" breaker does the job. 3/8 would not take that for long.



You would think common sense would come in but based on the average 1&2 star reviews I think the size of the handle inspires stupidity. Just wondering if socket selection doesn't help the issue.


I've always found 3/8 to be good for bikes. The breaker bar is for bmx axle bolts with pegs where they need to be a little tighter or are already too tight. Stuck crank or stem bolts, BB removal tool. Otherwise just wrenches do the job, finding and switching sockets seems slower so I don't know anyone who does it.

I don't understand, you said in your original post you went into HF looking for a deep socket set… now you say you don't use them, just wrenches. Personally I don't like using breaker bars (non ratcheting feature), but then I have an impact gun if needed. I prefer long ratchets, which work almost all the time if you use the correct size.

There's so many fasteners on bicycles/brands that its hard to recommend something. On my Jamis bikes, I need special adapters to remove the BB. Those adapters require a very large wrench or socket (torque is not high, but the hex on the adapter is huge ~24-27 mm to clear the shaft). Whereas the cranks are held with allen bolts. My older Specialized BMX has the 1-piece BB/crank and also uses a large hex.

 

[kctyphoon]

First time I've ever heard anyone complain about a "breaker bar" being too long.. If you don't need the leverage, then you can probably just use a long ratchet. Get the extendable ratchet instead, it's very strong for the money. Even the Tekton's advertise their long ratchets are safe up to like 200 ftlbs in 3/8". The HF extending ones have many positive reviews. I have them in both sizes

Edit -

 

[zendriver]

One could use a claw hammer, to drive a wooden stake, but a sledge does a much better job.

Trying to understand the rationale, of using a 3/8" breaker bar on lug nuts. A 12 point socket would probably work too.


I would think most kids old enough to ride a bmx bike, would probably want to learn how to use a ratchet.

 

[derosa]

I don't understand, you said in your original post you went into HF looking for a deep socket set… now you say you don't use them, just wrenches.
There's so many fasteners on bicycles/brands that its hard to recommend something. On my Jamis bikes, I need special adapters to remove the BB. Those adapters require a very large wrench or socket (torque is not high, but the hex on the adapter is huge ~24-27 mm to clear the shaft). Whereas the cranks are held with allen bolts.

Deep sockets are specifically for dealing with pegs, and often a bike designed for pegs has extra axle length to accommodate assorted peg designs requiring a deep socket. Between the junk bikes and good bikes axle nuts in a peg can be 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 19mm. Outside of these I don't use a socket on any bike. Don't really need recommendations, I own most tools necessary. Just surprised that the 3/8 would include a 21mm and the 1/2 wouldn't and the size of the 3/8 breaker bar leading people to use it on lugnuts.

Justanengineer- that's as good an explanation as any and makes some sense.

 

[Kev442]

I have been getting flak for liking to use my 10mm 1/2" on here for years. I just bought an extended length 3/8" Tekton ratchet last year, so not so much anymore.
The main reason a 10mm 1/2" exists is so that you can use it to back a nut while using your 3/8" 10mm on the bolt.

People like to use what they like to use. I saw a post on another forum about breaking a 1/2" drive 1 7/8" impact socket. I personally think 1 7/8" is firmly into 3/4" drive, but Snap on makes it, so it is common. I think it was even 12 point.

 

[99LeCouch]

I was one of those idiots who snapped off a 3/8" HF breaker bar. Didn't complain online since what I was doing with it was outside what it should have been used for. Should have used 1/2", but all I had at the time was 3/8". HF gave me a new one without issue.

If I recall correctly, the HF deep impact sockets do include a 21mm in 1/2". The colored set includes a 17mm and 19mm in 3/8", which do come in handy for running down fasteners on an air ratchet before final tightening.