hard plumbed air lines

[baron405]

i did a search and didnt come up with anything, but what is the recommended way to run hard pvc lines for air in your shop? if not pvc, what style of lines?

i know you want lots of moisture drops, and lots of outlets. i'll be doing my 40x80 shop over the weekend hopefully, and wanting to do this

thanks

 

[rattle_snake]

The PVC police will be here soon.

I suggest black pipe, copper or pex/Al (like rapid air or other brands).
I used black pipe and a filter/reg on each drop.
The advantage to copper or pex/al is that the pipe won't contaminate the air, but you really need a dryer to get the full benefit. That is, the air should be clean and dry before distributed in clean pipes. If the air is wet you may need a point of use filter/dryer and at that point a little rust n crust from pipes isn't going to matter.

There is a ton of threads on the subject, complete with relevant and irrelevant arguments. Use google to search the GJ site.

 

[ez-duzit]

A big negative on pvc! Dangerous. Pex is too difficult to prevent water traps. I'm using copper pipe.

Here's some info on piping layout.
http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Page/Air+Piping+Layout

 

[Richard Cranium]

do not use pvc for you air lines, this site will roast you at the stake.

 

[baron405]

gotcha, no PVC.

what is the main reason not to use them? too brittle?

 

[77Birdman]

Black iron is cheaper and relatively easy to use. You will need a pipe threader though. Copper only requires a small torch, is also easy to use but can get pricey.

 

[ez-duzit]

PVC=shrapnel.

Black iron=rust.

 

[77Birdman]

PVC can explode under pressure sending plastic schrapnel everywhere. If copper fails it simply splits open. Hard pressed to get black iron to fail.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Ha Ha. Lol. Rofl. Not really.

Like anyone will believe some flamer couldnt find "PVC Airline" in a search on this forum. Tired, tired, joke.

PVC is momentarily exciting when it blows up at the worst possibe time. Coffee is easier if you are needing help staying awake. Racing lawnmowers or barstools is good to spice up your life if ennui has invaded.

On the off chance you are not a troll, use black pipe or copper. Use aluminum or PEX. Use rubber hose and hydraulic lines. Use any stupid thing you like working with. Except PVC.

Everytime any air related topic is mentioned.....

 

[baron405]

how much air, is too much air for pvc?

 

[rlitman]

...Like anyone will believe some flamer couldnt find "PVC Airline" in a search on this forum...

Just to clarify this, this site's search does not work with any words shorter than four characters, so PVC will not come up in a search (neither will PEX for example).

 

[baron405]

Just to clarify this, this site's search does not work with any words shorter than four characters, so PVC will not come up in a search (neither will PEX for example).

this^^

 

[ez-duzit]

how much air, is too much air for pvc?

How much shrapnel can you tolerate?

 

[Lelandwelds]

how much air, is too much air for pvc?

Pvc does not like pressure fluctuations flexing pipe. The unfilled pvc is slightly better. The PVC with plasticizer is even better. Neither made into pipes.

There are better plastics.

 

[slodat]

I have a hybrid of Rapid Air's Maxline (Pex-Al-Pex) and FastPipe (aluminum rigid piping). Very happy with it!

 

[slodat]

Just to clarify this, this site's search does not work with any words shorter than four characters, so PVC will not come up in a search (neither will PEX for example).

Type the following in google's search box: "pvc airline site: garagejournal.com"

 

[Lelandwelds]

Just to clarify this, this site's search does not work with any words shorter than four characters, so PVC will not come up in a search (neither will PEX for example).

I guess I owe OP an apology. Sorry. I have had more " PVC" than I thought possible. Its only been a month and I am sick of it.

Wow. That snuck up on me. My apologies.

 

[rattle_snake]

OP,
I suggest you make a detailed plan of exactly what you want to do with your air system. If you need air immediately, install compressor and a hose on it while you decide what to do with the rest, so you only do it once. You can spend a large pile of money on an air system.

 

[baron405]

OP,
I suggest you make a detailed plan of exactly what you want to do with your air system. If you need air immediately, install compressor and a hose on it while you decide what to do with the rest, so you only do it once. You can spend a large pile of money on an air system.

i have an 80 gal cambel hausfield that has been great to me over the years, i will just use a hose as of right now, but over the winder i would like to do drops in various places in the shop

so i'm not in a super hurry, but i would like to make a plan and see what its goin to cost to plan it in the budget

 

[baron405]

any have links to HD or Lowes, on the correct product to purchase in copper or pex? i like the pex idea, but only asked about PVC because i have seen some shops done before with that and it looked clean.

 

[kbs2244]

40 x 80 means long runs.
Long enough to think about frictional loss in the air movement.
I would go with2 inch for the "mains" with good slope and drip legs at the ends.
Go to to 3/4 inch for up and over drops to working level.
With drip legs just in case.
(Just a FYI, I like to use a 45 degree "T" off the drop for the hose connector in stead of the more common 90 degree. There is less stress on the hose that way.)

Done right, this is a one time project.
Do some research an do it right.
The dollars spent will seem small in the future.

 

[rburke65]

I ran the black iron pipe and gave been happy with it.

 

[rattle_snake]

1/2 to 3/4" main line is likely plenty for you and will drop only a few psi. If you believe internet calculators take a look here:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-drop-compressed-air-pipes-d_852.html

I guessing your compressor can't do more than 15 cfm, but realize that a big tool like an impact can consume more than that as tank pressure falls. So even at 30cfm and 100' of pipe it's not much. Filters and regulators also induce loss.

So it depends on what type of equipment you plan to run and how many people are using air simultaneously.

The quick connect you use will also impact performance. Type 'V' (or other 3/8) over type common 1/4" type 'M' makes a big difference.

 

[WhiffySpark]

any have links to HD or Lowes, on the correct product to purchase in copper or pex? i like the pex idea, but only asked about PVC because i have seen some shops done before with that and it looked clean.

I’ve worked in a couple shops with pvc. I hated being there. One shop had one piece cracked where a hose hung down from the ceiling. But other than that I’ve never personally seen it. But I’m not taking any chances

I’ll be using pex, rapid air, or aluminum pipe.

 

[ez-duzit]

This is what I'm using for main line. Shop is 4-car size.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Cerro-3...-Hard-Temper-Straight-Pipe-3-4-M-10/100354200

 

[southalabama]

Before he knew better dad tried pvc being the cheap rascal he is. The compressor was by the door and had a shut off valve. He walked in and turns the valve on putting air into the piping. Piping was in the ceiling. It came apart and one piece went across the shop like a javelin. Fortunately no shrapnel. I witnessed it.

Dad went with copper. Twenty plus years later he's moved the shop twice and the copper lines he used has moved with him.

 

[cvairwerks]

I’ve done the calculations before, but it’s been a while. From what I remember, at 70 degrees, piping codes allow a max of 4 psig, and somewhere around 85 degrees it goes to 0 psig. Ultimate stress limits on PVC or CPVC is only about 7,000 psi, where black iron is above 35,000. In other cheap and easy words.... pressurize PVC and you just created a potential bomb and fragmentation device.

 

[Falcon67]

Black iron here. Moved it from one shop to another, so some of it has been in use for 10 years. No noted rust problems. I have two filter/regulator units that float around the shop to help keep the end use air clean.

 

[gerryw]

I have used copper 1/2” for 20 yrs, no problems.
The standard copper, not thick walled.

Gerry

 

[Jon_E]

I have been following these "shop airline materials" threads with considerable interest, since I haven't plumbed my shop with air yet. I don't need a lot, as I do woodworking in mine, not much mechanical stuff. I am going to use copper pipe for everything, with a couple hose reels in strategic locations.

My personal experience is with medical oxygen systems, where everything is plumbed in copper and holds 50 psi constantly, but the O2 is at 230 psi when introduced to the system. The copper piping at my workplace has held O2 at full pressure for 40+ years without failure.

 

[engineer2]

For a large 40x80 shop the best way is a perimeter loop with a line going across the middle. Put drops where you need them. Unless you are running a factory, 3/4" should be adequate.

 

[baron405]

For a large 40x80 shop the best way is a perimeter loop with a line going across the middle. Put drops where you need them. Unless you are running a factory, 3/4" should be adequate.

i like the idea of those humps at the top, nice drawing going to save that.

 

[lakelandcat]

If you run your pipe along the ceiling, when you come down to your quick disconnect, make a p-trap and at the base ad a small petcock drain, it will trap water condensation and keep it out of your tools, (drain before your use your tool). works great, never had a problem with pressure loss. Use copper for 1st class ap., no rust and no splits.

 

[bullnerd]

I wont tell you not to use PVC, I don't know you, but I will say I had it explode on me, twice. Once right at my face while unplugging a quick connect and the second about 5ft away and around the corner. I second was while running cnc mill, just what you want to hear while concentrating on your work!

I also worked at a cabinet shop that had two LONG hoses one at each end. When I started there I thought, this is going to ****. But it actually worked great. Just coiled them back up every night.

 

[rattle_snake]

Short lengths of Unistrut works well to secure the piping, whatever type you choose. A scaffold is very helpful for a job like this....
Also think about a need for air outside the building, and plan for it. I have seen hose reels on the inside with the fairlead on the outside. I just ran a pipe through wall after reg. I use frequently on dirty jobs outside the buidling.

 

[fourjeepin]

I have PVC that I out up 7 years ago before I knew any better. I have been debating swapping to pex or maybe copper.

 

[6768rogues]

Pressurized water in a PVC pipe has only the amount of water that fits in the pipe, since water does not compress. Air compresses, so PVC airlines have many times the volume of the pipe in the pipe under pressure. When it all releases, it is more like an explosion than when a water pipe bursts and just squirts water.

 

[rlitman]

Pressurized water in a PVC pipe has only the amount of water that fits in the pipe, since water does not compress. Air compresses, so PVC airlines have many times the volume of the pipe in the pipe under pressure. When it all releases, it is more like an explosion than when a water pipe bursts and just squirts water.

Think of it in terms of energy stored in a spring.
Compressing air is just like compressing a spring. There is a lot of energy in that, that can get released when a pneumatic pipe fails.

 

[dynahoe]

i have 1" id pex al pex from outdoor furnace supply. with 4 drops and 3 flexzilla air hoses, no moisture issues, zero leaks with no tools connected.love it

 

[LS6 Tommy]

how much air, is too much air for pvc?

Anything over about .5 PSIG...

Tommy