To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Hard to find screwdrivers.

Ton ton

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
4,592
Location
Page County,VA
Which screwdriver is hardest to find as far as tips go? I'm voting for T27. I know they're available in a set. But I am talking singles here. I would appreciate a discussion here. If you are not comfortable discussing brands I'm ok with that. Just tips of the screwdriver is what I am concerned about. Thank you for your time.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

purplezr2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,292
Location
Central MN
Which screwdriver is hardest to find as far as tips go? I'm voting for T27. I know they're available in a set. But I am talking singles here. I would appreciate a discussion here. If you are not comfortable discussing brands I'm ok with that. Just tips of the screwdriver is what I am concerned about. Thank you for your time.
Looks like a quick google search shows you can buy a T27 from various brands for sub-$10 USD plus shipping.
 

WWheeler

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
4,105
Location
Middleofnowhere USA
Hard to find screwdrivers for me would be ones that they don't make anymore.

A complete set of NEW USA Craftsman Professional soft grips. Man I loved those things. Almost worth paying whatever ebay prices are for NOS whenever they show up. Almost.
 

Tiny Jackson

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
170
Location
Schiller Park, IL
Hard to find screwdrivers for me would be ones that they don't make anymore.

A complete set of NEW USA Craftsman Professional soft grips. Man I loved those things. Almost worth paying whatever ebay prices are for NOS whenever they show up. Almost.
You talking about the ones that are black with gold lettering or the ones with black and red handles? I have a set of the black and red handles. They are my go to set. Unfortunately I lost the largest flat blade from the set to a junkyard.
 

WWheeler

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
4,105
Location
Middleofnowhere USA
You talking about the ones that are black with gold lettering or the ones with black and red handles? I have a set of the black and red handles. They are my go to set. Unfortunately I lost the largest flat blade from the set to a junkyard.
Yeah the black and red soft grips.

I admittedly never gave them the respect they deserved. I let my boys and employees/coworkers help me use them up and lose them because I just assumed I was always going to be able to return em no questions asked or pick another set up whenever. Every time i think about it I want to shove one of the few I have left in right in Eddie Lampert's eye.
 

JradM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,816
Location
Alberta
Really large tips in "screwdriver" format can be hard to find too - e.g. T50

I have one T50 screwdriver, but it's much easier to find that size in a T-handle than a screwdriver.
 

purplezr2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,292
Location
Central MN
Hard to find screwdrivers for me would be ones that they don't make anymore.

A complete set of NEW USA Craftsman Professional soft grips. Man I loved those things. Almost worth paying whatever ebay prices are for NOS whenever they show up. Almost.
Are these black with a darker red? I think I had one or two that I bought on a whim 20 years ago, no sure where they are now but remember link them.
 

AreBeeBee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
415
Location
Wisconsin
How about genuine Robertson instead of just "square drive"?

Am I splitting hairs? You bet. But they're not exactly the same and most brands don't go in for the "real" thing.

I have a Robertson #2 screwdriver, 9 1/2 inches long. No idea as to the date of manufacture, but the shaft is stamped:

P.L. ROBERTSON TOOL CO. LIMITED / MILTON, ONT. CANADA / SOCKET SCREWS NO. 7-8-9 / PAT'D IN CANADA 1933

It being a #2, the wood handle is painted red of course. I'd love to get a #1 (green) and a #3 (black), again from the factory, but living in the States I'm content to leave this in the category of a quest that may never be satisfied.
 

gmt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
252
Location
SoCal
Which screwdriver is hardest to find as far as tips go? I'm voting for T27. I know they're available in a set. But I am talking singles here. I would appreciate a discussion here. If you are not comfortable discussing brands I'm ok with that. Just tips of the screwdriver is what I am concerned about. Thank you for your time.
Hey Ton ton, if you need a T27 check out KC tools. They have a Stahlwille T27 for $12.50 in the clearance section.
 

KnurledNut

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
8,125
Location
n/a
The hardest ones to find are specialty security screwdrivers only sold through controlled channels.
Even those make their way into the public sometimes.
 

dscheidt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
2,890
How about genuine Robertson instead of just "square drive"?

Am I splitting hairs? You bet. But they're not exactly the same and most brands don't go in for the "real" thing.
Robertson's patents expired six decades ago. You can make a driver to the original specs without paying for the trademark. You'd be foolish to pay money for something that has no actual value to anyone beyond a few Canadians.
 

JradM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,816
Location
Alberta
Robertson's patents expired six decades ago. You can make a driver to the original specs without paying for the trademark. You'd be foolish to pay money for something that has no actual value to anyone beyond a few Canadians.
That's not precisely what I'm suggesting. Robertson screws and drivers have a slight taper that isn't present in "square drive". They're largely interchangeable - hence I admit I'm splitting hairs. But you can get a better fit using a Robertson screwdriver on a Robertson screw. When people complain their Robertson screws don't stay on the ends of their Robertson screwdrivers, or cam out, I suspect it's because they're mixing and matching.

I take your point though - I don't know how many Robertson screws you come across in the USA. I was very surprised to learn a few years ago that most of your deck screws, for example, are Torx! Seems so strange to me.

Of course there's also Wera's take on square drive, where all the flat edges are slightly concave... it works pretty well too.
 

bwringer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
10,270
Location
Indianapolis
I would love to find a screwdriver or t-handle set with the size (and style) CLEARLY visible. And I mean un-missable. Big. YUGE, durable markings that won't disappear if you get a little gas or oil on them.

Torx and hex stuff is just plain gawdawful in this regard. If you have the sort of beady gnome eyes that can tell T27 from T25 at a glance, then I guess you don't have this problem. But I spend half of every repair scrabbling through the set and squinting at the teensy or missing markings.

Some screwdriver sets have a "-" or "+" on the end, and that's helpful; I guess it's not too hard to tell a P2 from a P3 by size, but being able to grab the right style is the main thing.

I'd also get pretty frisky if I could find high quality sets that are more or less color-coded and clearly marked. So, for example, a set of metric hex, torx, and security torx. Maybe the hexes are red, the torx is blue, security torx is green, and they're all marked so that you can see the sizes from space. Oh, and while we're dreaming, you can buy nice little stands for them that clip together firmly. Everything nice and neat and coordinated, and the torx sets don't skip the &^%$#@ furshlugginer T27 like half of them do. Bastids.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
9,357
Location
Roanoke Virginia
T35 torx screwdriver when was the last time you seen one or needed one lol. T27 I’ve found at places like Ace Hardware and such as an individual. I have a few of them as the license plate screws on my truck are all T27.
 

purplezr2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
5,292
Location
Central MN
I would love to find a screwdriver or t-handle set with the size (and style) CLEARLY visible. And I mean un-missable. Big. YUGE, durable markings that won't disappear if you get a little gas or oil on them.

Torx and hex stuff is just plain gawdawful in this regard. If you have the sort of beady gnome eyes that can tell T27 from T25 at a glance, then I guess you don't have this problem. But I spend half of every repair scrabbling through the set and squinting at the teensy or missing markings.

Some screwdriver sets have a "-" or "+" on the end, and that's helpful; I guess it's not too hard to tell a P2 from a P3 by size, but being able to grab the right style is the main thing.

I'd also get pretty frisky if I could find high quality sets that are more or less color-coded and clearly marked. So, for example, a set of metric hex, torx, and security torx. Maybe the hexes are red, the torx is blue, security torx is green, and they're all marked so that you can see the sizes from space. Oh, and while we're dreaming, you can buy nice little stands for them that clip together firmly. Everything nice and neat and coordinated, and the torx sets don't skip the &^%$#@ furshlugginer T27 like half of them do. Bastids.
I have the 8 Pc snap on Set, with the holder it is pretty easy to remember what is what
 

joel63

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,909
Location
Central FL
I would love to find a screwdriver or t-handle set with the size (and style) CLEARLY visible. And I mean un-missable. Big. YUGE, durable markings that won't disappear if you get a little gas or oil on them.

Torx and hex stuff is just plain gawdawful in this regard. If you have the sort of beady gnome eyes that can tell T27 from T25 at a glance, then I guess you don't have this problem. But I spend half of every repair scrabbling through the set and squinting at the teensy or missing markings.

Some screwdriver sets have a "-" or "+" on the end, and that's helpful; I guess it's not too hard to tell a P2 from a P3 by size, but being able to grab the right style is the main thing.

I'd also get pretty frisky if I could find high quality sets that are more or less color-coded and clearly marked. So, for example, a set of metric hex, torx, and security torx. Maybe the hexes are red, the torx is blue, security torx is green, and they're all marked so that you can see the sizes from space. Oh, and while we're dreaming, you can buy nice little stands for them that clip together firmly. Everything nice and neat and coordinated, and the torx sets don't skip the &^%$#@ furshlugginer T27 like half of them do. Bastids.
You are on to something revolutionary here. Game changer!
 

Farmall450

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
13,356
Location
Marengo, Illinois
JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) screwdrivers were difficult to find in the United States prior to online shopping. Now, it seems like everything is available with a few clicks and dollars.
I have a Snap-on set, but at a non-hardware/auto store I'd agree.

I feel NAPA probably has JIS stuff?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Jeff

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
2,706
Location
Sonova Beach
JIS is generally Japanese companies like Vessel and Hozan, although, Moody Tools (US made) makes micro JIS drivers for cameras and such.
 

lardy1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
3,399
Location
Michigan
Really large tips in "screwdriver" format can be hard to find too - e.g. T50

I have one T50 screwdriver, but it's much easier to find that size in a T-handle than a screwdriver.

Bondhus has bigger sizes. I forget the range limit offhand but pretty sure they go to T60. I bought a set then a bunch of individuals from an Ebay seller that had a lot of the sizes at a fair price.
 

jumbojak

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,361
Location
Surry, VA
When I need a T27 I grab one of the hundreds of weed eater tools we have at work. You could never lose all the ones we have. Chainsaw tools, though, are a rare thing indeed. I think we're down to two at the moment.

Hollow ground flat tips are hard to find in anything that isn't an X-in-1 style driver, which is a shame. The tapered ground flat tips make great pry bars but lousy screwdrivers on anything old and crusty. More often than not a 4-in-1 does the job but a dedicated driver that was readily available would be nice.
 

bonneyman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
8,791
Location
Desert SW
Yeah the black and red soft grips.

I admittedly never gave them the respect they deserved. I let my boys and employees/coworkers help me use them up and lose them because I just assumed I was always going to be able to return em no questions asked or pick another set up whenever. Every time i think about it I want to shove one of the few I have left in right in Eddie Lampert's eye.
Like this? I loved the feel of these, with the perfect thumb rest! I managed to score one in a hex bit driver variation. :love:

Didn't other brands like S-K come out with the same ones just in different colors? I think S-K's were green/black. And I think Armstrong had them in blue/black. Maybe you could find some of those on clearance?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5110.JPG
    IMG_5110.JPG
    116.4 KB · Views: 32

Pexto

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
638
I would love to find a screwdriver or t-handle set with the size (and style) CLEARLY visible. And I mean un-missable. Big. YUGE, durable markings that won't disappear if you get a little gas or oil on them.

Torx and hex stuff is just plain gawdawful in this regard. If you have the sort of beady gnome eyes that can tell T27 from T25 at a glance, then I guess you don't have this problem. But I spend half of every repair scrabbling through the set and squinting at the teensy or missing markings.

Some screwdriver sets have a "-" or "+" on the end, and that's helpful; I guess it's not too hard to tell a P2 from a P3 by size, but being able to grab the right style is the main thing.

I'd also get pretty frisky if I could find high quality sets that are more or less color-coded and clearly marked. So, for example, a set of metric hex, torx, and security torx. Maybe the hexes are red, the torx is blue, security torx is green, and they're all marked so that you can see the sizes from space. Oh, and while we're dreaming, you can buy nice little stands for them that clip together firmly. Everything nice and neat and coordinated, and the torx sets don't skip the &^%$#@ furshlugginer T27 like half of them do. Bastids.

I feel your pain, brother. I've been doing a lot of work with Torx lately and finding the right size is almost pure guesswork. A typical one yesterday: I look at the tiny screw carefully, wondering if it is a hex or a Torx. OK, looks like a Torx. Try a T8. Fits, but it's pretty loose. Move up to the T9. Fits, but still loose. Finally the T10 is the right one. The 3rd time might be a charm, but it sure wastes a lot of time! This machine has T10, T15, T25, T30, T40, T45, and T50. No T27 so far.

On a lot of my hex tools I added heat-shrink tubing roughly the same color as my Wera L-keys. This has proved to be pretty handy and I'll probably take the time to do something similar for my Torx L-keys, socket bits, and screwdrivers.

I picked up a nice set of USAG Torx screwdrivers (made in France so probably Facom). The handles are very comfortable and the steel seems very good, but there are only about three handle sizes and it's hard to tell the T25 from the T30 at a glance, much less the T27. Maybe a piece of brightly colored heat shrink tubing on each shaft will help my confusion.

("Furschlugginer", haha. Haven't seen that one since MAD magazine many years ago!) :D
 

dscheidt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
2,890
That's not precisely what I'm suggesting. Robertson screws and drivers have a slight taper that isn't present in "square drive".
There is no patent protection for either driver or screw heads, the last patent on the basic robertson shape expired in like 1960. And since Roberson's big innovation was that the taper was easy to form by drawing the tip (and pressing the recess on the screw), anything with any pretense at being a quality tool, has a taper. I've actually looked for an untapered square drive implement, and have never found one.

Every single square drive driver I have, whether a screwdriver, or a bit insert, branded or not, made in the USA, in Canada, or Asia, whether labeled "S2", "R2", or not at all, has a taper tip, and will hold a good quality screw on them. When this came up somewhere else, and some grumpy Canadian complained, I measured a bunch of what I could find. All of them, except some visibly worn out inserts, had the taper the Robertson patent called out. They only reason they're not labeled "Robertson" is it costs money for the license, and no one but grumpy Canadians cares, so there's no economic benefit to do so.
 

dnschmidt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
7,271
Location
Phoenix, AZ
How about genuine Robertson instead of just "square drive"?

Am I splitting hairs? You bet. But they're not exactly the same and most brands don't go in for the "real" thing.
No problem. McFeeley's square drive screws sells them to us South of the border types. The genuine Robertson are two piece. Hardened tips and sort of soft metal shafts.
 

AreBeeBee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
415
Location
Wisconsin
I take your point though - I don't know how many Robertson screws you come across in the USA. I was very surprised to learn a few years ago that most of your deck screws, for example, are Torx! Seems so strange to me.

Yes, Torx ("star") drive has all but completely replaced the Robertson (square) drive for deck screws, as I discovered doing a crawl through local hardware stores. The stores are selling out the Robertson ones and new stock is Torx. Kreg uses the square drive in its pocket screws, but they all have those collars which I don't find useful for general work.

My wife's Canadian, and I'm compiling a list of common size and length Robertson screws for general use. I'll order them ahead of time at a Home Hardware and pick 'em up on our next trip to Ontario to visit family.

Hoping also to hit some ReStores and antique/consignment places to get actual, vintage factory-made Robertson screwdrivers (#0, #1, #3, #4; already have a #2). But that falls into the "Quest" category.
 

dscheidt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
2,890
Coin drivers....the only ones I can find are PB Swiss and stupid expensive.
I needed one for sometime a long time ago. If I'd known they were actually made commercially, I'd have gotten one, but I didn't. I took a a piece of bar the right width, and ground the coin radius on one end. the other end, I bent 90 degrees, so I could get a little levarage on it.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
9,357
Location
Roanoke Virginia
I use T27 on chainsaws and weed eater. Yes there's a difference between T27 and T25. T25 tends to slip quicker on those 2 stroke engine screws.
You’re absolutely right. Always use the right tool. I forgot about my Stihl equipment taking T27 cause I never have to work on them haha :lol: . That reminds me in need to get a T27 bit socket to have at the house. Have the driver and the provided tool.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,617
Location
Pennsylvannia
When I need a T27 I grab one of the hundreds of weed eater tools we have at work. You could never lose all the ones we have. Chainsaw tools, though, are a rare thing indeed. I think we're down to two at the moment.

Hollow ground flat tips are hard to find in anything that isn't an X-in-1 style driver, which is a shame. The tapered ground flat tips make great pry bars but lousy screwdrivers on anything old and crusty. More often than not a 4-in-1 does the job but a dedicated driver that was readily available would be nice.
There is actually a reason for taper ground flat head screwdrivers.

Originally, the slot in screws was hand cut into the screw.
This appears to have been done using a tapered knife file on old screws I’ve seen.
A tapered knife file has a similar taper to the taper on a tapered flathead screwdriver.
Because of the taper on both, a screw with a taper cut slot can be pushed onto the head of a tapered flathead screwdriver and stay put, similar to the advantages to the genuine tapered “Robertson” Square driver screwdrivers.
If a screw slot gets buggered, you can also recut the screw slot with a knife file and continue using the screw without issue, other than a slightly larger slot. It’s a tapered driver, so it doesn’t really matter if the slot gets cut deeper.
I’m not sure exactly when screws started being mass produced with parallel machine cut slots (probably after the US Civil War), but there was still a reason tapered screwdrivers continued being used, other than the popularity for them as a pry bar.

Older tapered head flathead screwdrivers used to come with the tapered heads ground to a very fine taper.
With wider screw slots this tended to seem annoying.
It’s actually an intentional advantage.
The screwdriver tip can be ground down slightly, easily, with a grinder or file, making the tip slightly thicker, so you can get an exact fit to the width of the screw slot, or just slightly wider, do there is a wedging action when the screwdriver is inserted.
The sides of the tapered flathead can also be slightly filed for width.
The general goal for mechanics was that you filed screwdrivers custom for odd sizes, and made up a bunch of drivers for all the screw sizes you routinely came across.
The system actually works pretty well.
To make the screwdrivers grip even better, a checkering file (used for making checkered patterns on gun grips) can be used on the screwdriver tip, making horizontal grooves that help prevent the tip from slipping, sort of like the serrations on ACR Phillips head bits.
Some manufacturers sell drivers with these serrations already cut. Facom does this, or did on their older tapered drivers, and unlike some of the US made drivers that did similar, Facom used finer serrations.
A Facom driver when properly fitted to a slotted screw will stay in place horizontally, sticking out from the screw slot when the screw slot is also turned horizontal, on a vertical wall.
I’ve done it with screws on lights witch plates on the wall, with a 12” long Facom driver.

The only screws that really needed hollow ground screwdrivers previously were on guns and fine machined equipment, were the screws were usually custom, and the item really expensive.
Gunsmiths were usually taught how to custom make “turnscrews” (the old fashioned name for a screwdriver) to custom fit the very fine slots found on some firearms.
Here are a couple videos from Brownells showing turnscrews being made.

Brownells sells a huge variety of different widths and thicknesses of screwdrivers bits with parallel flat heads for different slot sizes.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...-bits/magna-tip-super-set-bits-prod41568.aspx
And sets.
 

bwringer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
10,270
Location
Indianapolis
If anyone ever decides to get into installing (or stealing) bathroom partitions, you'll need a PH3, tamper resistant T27, one-way screw-removing screwdrivers and IIRC a 7/16 to set/unset the hinge preload.
Um. OK.

What the world really needs is a bathroom bandit who goes around fixing and covering up the panel gaps so the world can poo in peace, free from the tyranny of the judgmental anonymous eyeball peering down at you through the 1/2 inch gap. Or worse, the child's eyeball looking straight into your foul soul. Sort of a Robin Hood who makes the world better instead of stealing.

Sorry, let's go back to talking about screwdrivers now...
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom