Hardwood Floor Tools

[BuickBoy]

I'm putting down real hardwood floor for my lady's mom. All of the wood is "seconds" that she got for free.

We have the majority of it down. However, we have a small space left to go and have only end pieces left.

What is the tool I need to cut the mating ends?

We've heard the term "biscuit cutter".

I'm trying to be educated before I run off to Menards in a few minutes.

Thanks!

Oh, and a picture of what we are up to from a few days ago. We have most of this area done now.

Not bad for free!

P.S. this is the first time I've ever done flooring. ;-)

 

[moserjj]

I don't think you need a biscuit joiner but rather a router bit or something to cut the groove for your tongue. I've never done that and I gather it might be quite an effort to get it right. A table saw might work to rip a groove but I wouldn't try that myself. It's probably better to just cut off the tongue and **** them together if you can't get a groove cut

 

[csp]

A biscuit joiner isn't the right tool. You need a router/shaper to cut the profile of the tongue in your end pieces, if that's all you have left.

 

[BuickBoy]

Photo from today.

 

[BuickBoy]

Thank you for the responses guys! Sadly I don't have much control over this project anymore.

It is sounding like they are going to half-@ss it and put pieces end to end. :-(

I said I would buy the flooring or the tool, but her mom is being stubborn.

Hopefully if I'm persistent enough it will work out.

 

[neverenoughtools]

Looks good so far !

 

[65Stang]

Without grooves, you can easily get edges being at different elevations. Hope it all works out, looks good so far.

 

[54FordPanel]

I've used a table saw to put both tongues and grooves on oak flooring. Don't know if you have access to one. As suggested a router might also work.

Edit: On your post number 5: That kind of situation drives me nuts, when people half-*** something that you know should be done right. It looks like you're dealing with some short pieces..........those are the ones that really need the ends t & g the most. Oh, well.....

 

[gahrajmahal]

You can use a regular table saw to cut a groove in the ends of two joining pieces. Then put a spline between the two to keep them level. Use adhesive to hold these odd pieces down. Try and keep this kind of joinery out of high traffic areas.
This months issue of This Old House magazine has a great article showing advanced hardwood floor install, just look for herringbone.

 

[BuickBoy]

We have a table saw. Its out dated and difficult to use. I would hate to try and use it for cutting the tongues.

Supposedly someone might have a router but I'm running out of time and her mom is bailing on Menards in favor of her friend who is also helping and might have a router... but he works at Menards and is the one wanting to put pieces end to end. **face palm**

Oh well... not my house... :-/

 

[nmk_61802]

You can use a regular table saw to cut a groove in the ends of two joining pieces. Then put a spline between the two to keep them level. Use adhesive to hold these odd pieces down. Try and keep this kind of joinery out of high traffic areas.
This months issue of This Old House magazine has a great article showing advanced hardwood floor install, just look for herringbone.

This is what I did, only I used a slot cutter on a router instead of a table saw:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2119&site=ROCKLER

However I got my slot cutter from Harbor Freight for half the price, then bought a bearing to hold the correct depth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/three-wing-slotting-cutters-3-pack-42133.html

I got my splines at Menards


This kept me from having to buy a seperate tounge cutter.

Also keep in mind that all joints should be atleast 6" away from adjacent joints, with the short pieces it will require some careful planning, it looks like you have a few joints within 2" of each other in your prelaid out sections

 

[Kevin54]

If you're that far along, if you cut a tongue on the end of one piece of wood, you need the groove on the other end. But to cut the groove, you can't do it with one piece nailed down and the other one not. So about your only alternative is to buy or rent a biscuit joiner and add a biscuit in the ends with glue, then fasten your pieces down.

 

[Zeke]

Yeah, a biscuit joiner will work on flush cuts. You can do the same with a router and a slot cutter. Make cuts in each end and join with a spline. Or you could use a cheap dowling jig.

A router is the tool you will use the most down the line if you buy. But, a table saw is really a good tool to have. Search on how to make a tennoning jig to cut slots on the table saw safely. It's not hard to make one.

**** joints on flooring need to intersect somehow.

 

[BlindViper]

If she got all that flooring for free tell her to buy 2 boxes of flooring and be done with it.

 

[kbs2244]

You are too far along to do it right.
But that vinyl should have taken up so you are working directly on the sub floor.
And the trim at the bottom of the walls should have been removed also.

The pros (I have two in the family) don’t do anything at the ends but **** them together.
If you have enough overlap with the previous strips end joints the friction of the tongue and groove on the edges will be enough.
They do use a sacrificial piece to wack the piece tight.
But since the bottom of the wall trim will cover the end of the strip, you only need to get it within ½ inch of the wall.
You get it tight there with the leverage of a flat, blue “Wonder Bar.”

 

[BuickBoy]

If she got all that flooring for free tell her to buy 2 boxes of flooring and be done with it.

I offered to purchase the flooring for her. This wood she got is mixed of all colors. I'm not sure they sell packages like this?

She doesn't have much money, hardly makes it by, which is why I offered to buy but shes being stubborn unfortunately.

You are too far along to do it right.
But that vinyl should have taken up so you are working directly on the sub floor.
And the trim at the bottom of the walls should have been removed also.

The pros (I have two in the family) don’t do anything at the ends but **** them together.
If you have enough overlap with the previous strips end joints the friction of the tongue and groove on the edges will be enough.
They do use a sacrificial piece to wack the piece tight.
But since the bottom of the wall trim will cover the end of the strip, you only need to get it within ½ inch of the wall.
You get it tight there with the leverage of a flat, blue “Wonder Bar.”

I questioned taking up the vinyl. I was overruled. I'm not sure what affect this has on the floor itself over time. Unfortunately, I didn't have control over that decision.

I'll hear later tonight which direction they went with the end pieces. I surely hope they dont decide to **** ends together.

 

[Zeke]

You are too far along to do it right.
But that vinyl should have taken up so you are working directly on the sub floor.
And the trim at the bottom of the walls should have been removed also.

The pros (I have two in the family) don’t do anything at the ends but **** them together.
If you have enough overlap with the previous strips end joints the friction of the tongue and groove on the edges will be enough.
They do use a sacrificial piece to wack the piece tight.
But since the bottom of the wall trim will cover the end of the strip, you only need to get it within ½ inch of the wall.
You get it tight there with the leverage of a flat, blue “Wonder Bar.”

Good point on the long edges holding the ends. Lots of shorts there, though. Every little bit helps.

Not sure that the old floor needed to come up. It's a good moisture barrier for jobs on grade.

Looks to me they did strip something off the toe-kick. I can't see in the pic that well.

 

[deter]

rather than half-*** it, they should have left it the way it was

 

[BuickBoy]

Good point on the long edges holding the ends. Lots of shorts there, though. Every little bit helps.

Not sure that the old floor needed to come up. It's a good moisture barrier for jobs on grade.

Looks to me they did strip something off the toe-kick. I can't see in the pic that well.

I didn't fight too hard about ripping up the vinyl because I felt it was a good moisture barrier, not sure of any other added benefit of going to the sub floor then laying an equally pliable covering down.

We pulled all of the moldings before we laid any flooring. We also used correct spacers around the perimeter where the moldings were going back down and will be adding a shoe molding for covering the entire gap.

rather than half-*** it, they should have left it the way it was

That's easy enough to say.

 

[Beaumont67]

Tenoning Jigs article, using table saw.
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs...enoning-jigs.aspx?t=jigs and fixtures&id=v5_9

 

[miner]

I would say the fact that the vinyl is an impermeable moisture barrier is the main problem. It will trap moisture next to the under side of the flooring and contribute to rot and or warping. For instance, spilled water can easily soak through the cracks in the wood flooring, but has no where to go when it hits the vinyl. Underlayment for wood floors should be limited to things like felt paper which is not impermeable.

 

[jake00]

I own a hardwood flooring mill and my family has been installing and distributing for mor than 30 years.

The flooring does not need to be end matched. Many mills don't end match in fact.

That said if you want, follow the advice in the replies that mention using a router to groove the ends and then use spline. Or use a table saw.

 

[uniballer]

I would say the fact that the vinyl is an impermeable moisture barrier is the main problem. It will trap moisture next to the under side of the flooring and contribute to rot and or warping. For instance, spilled water can easily soak through the cracks in the wood flooring, but has no where to go when it hits the vinyl. Underlayment for wood floors should be limited to things like felt paper which is not impermeable.

You are supposed to have a barrier, That is why they use black or red paper, or even roof paper down before wood goes!

 

[miner]

You are supposed to have a barrier, That is why they use black or red paper, or even roof paper down before wood goes!

The "barrier" is to help avoid squeaks, not prevent water or moisture from passing through. If you want to keep moisture out of your floor you should keep it out of your subfloor by having a well ventilated basement/crawlspace. In any case, none of the papers you list are as impermeable as vinyl.

 

[nmk_61802]

The "barrier" is to help avoid squeaks, not prevent water or moisture from passing through. If you want to keep moisture out of your floor you should keep it out of your subfloor by having a well ventilated basement/crawlspace. In any case, none of the papers you list are as impermeable as vinyl.

This assumes water vapor is migrating from the upper to lower floors. Since Heat rises and generally if over a crawl or basement you would want to keep the moisture from cupping the floor above. I wouldn't think this would be an issue usually. I think it only becomes an issue around the sink, or other spill prone areas where water spilt above would cause problems.

 

[RCStocker]

You cut off the tung for the last piece. Yo sipi pieces in place. I hope you got the flooring under the kick molding or took up the kick molding. That makes it very easy to install and looks so much nicer when the job is finished.

If the flooring is use I hope you stiped any old finish off and then ran a metal detector over the boards and removed all nails. They you should have run it all throug a belt sandter to get a good clean finish and make them all even.

There are many video's of how to install the last pieces on line.
That would be the fist place I would look to find out how to do it. The New Yankee Work Shop did a bit on it 10 years or so ago. Many people have demo's posted.