Hardwood flooring install

[greg86z28]

Hi all,

I'm going to be installing around ~1300 sqft of hardwood flooring in our home. I've got the basics down, but I hope I could get some input on how to start. Here is the general scope:
-Wood has been acclimating in our house
-solid 3/4" prefinished maple, 3-1/4' board width
-will be laid on acceptable 3/4" plywood subfloor, perpendicular to floor joists
-floor joists are 16" on center
-have 10% overage in materials
-felt underlayment has been recommended (or red rosin paper).
-have applied additional screws to the plywood underlayment

I'm going to have a more experienced person (but not a professional) helping and guiding me. I'm trying gather as much information/experience as possible.

Aside from the nitty gritty of striking lines and making sure your first several rows start off right, one of my overarching questions is how to handle moving from room to room. For example, if I start in the hallway and I'm all nice and parallel, once I get to moving into the bedrooms, I feel like it's highly unlikely that the bedrooms will be square to the hallway. How do you account for this? Do you lay a custom strip in the doorway that will set you up to be square in the room your moving into? Do you simply keep going and then when you reach the opposite wall in the bedroom rip all the boards to fit right?

Please see my attached floor plan. Note that the joists run East West so the floor must run North South.

Thanks in advance for sharing advice/experience with me. Really excited to learn and tackle this project.

Greg

 

[kd3pc]

get a good pair of knee pads, whether you "need" them or not...after 40+ years of construction, I wish they made better ones back in the '70's.

 

[engineer2]

^^^Yes! I just put down 500 sqft of laminate and skipped the knee pads this one time. I'm sorry I didn't use them. Knees are still a bit sore two weeks later.

Nice floor plan drawing! I usually start on the longest wall, which would be your kitchen/dining/office. If you reach your bedroom hall doorway and are way off, start a new row squared up and use a T- molding to cover the angled gap. I doubt that will happen.

I did our entire upstairs with 4 bedroom, 5 closets, with numerous direction changes, and everything stayed square. You'll probably be fine. Just check as you go. If you start getting a bit off, just swing the hammer a little harder for a several rows on the end that is leading, and re-check.

 

[greg86z28]

I should be able to snap lines all over the house before laying a single piece of wood to see how everything will line up?

I've also heard start with your longest straightest wall. I can carry that straight chalk line all over the house to each room to see how I line up I suppose?

 

[BgBmBoo]

Do you simply keep going and then when you reach the opposite wall in the bedroom rip all the boards to fit right?

Greg

Yes, that's how I would do it. In both house's I've done I used the centerline down the hallway as my straight line. However, the hall in my homes was more of a central focal point than in your house and it would have been very noticeable if the floor wasn't parallel to the hall.

Based on what I am seeing I think I would start on the west hallway wall using the centerline of the hallway as my straight line and work towards the east bedroom walls. I would then turn the wood around and start working west into the dining room.

Before I started I would also take some time to measure the west dining room/office wall to see how square it is compared to the hallway centerline.

The plan may change once I had the measurements, but that's where I would start.

Good luck! Just finished up a 1200 sq ft floating engineer hardwood install this past weekend myself. x 1000 on the knee pads!

 

[Kaizen]

Start taking Advil now. Get it to max level in your system. Have the chop saw on stands. Two guys don't get up and down. That's what kills. Hoping you are using an air assist nailer. If you have a wife have her look over the boards after you initially lay them out and before nailing them. Did a job with three guys and not one of us saw the clearly off tone red two foot piece we put right in the middle of the floor. One woman saw it in a second. Make sure you keep staples in the nailer. One guy went two rows with no nails before he noticed. Use splines cut off bad pieces to reverse the flooring. Don't worry about the whole house being square. Just worry about the most visible areas so you don't have thing pieces. If has floor vents mark them and make sure you cut them out. ***** trying to find those after.
Make sure you take out of all boxes for an area. They will be varying colors so mix them up. Use the small pieces for closets or not visible areas. You have a finish nailer to face nail when needed right?


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[greg86z28]

Will be using the air tools. I have the angle gun (borrowed from my cousin). Need to get a face nailer (have a brad nailer can I use that) for the boards along the walls. Is there any alternative way of doing it or is that the best way? I have no issue buying the required tools.

Definitely will be having my wife help and assist with sorting boards.

We are using a "natural" maple which has color variation, so we'll be thinking about how to lay it down so it looks nice.

 

[nh_yota]

Skip the kneepads and get some foam gardening pads to lay down on the floor. I don't like how the ******** the back of kneepads cuts into the back of my leg when I'm kneeling so I use foam pads on the floor instead.

 

[greg86z28]

Whats the approach for handling the first several rows along the wall. I know people face nail them. Is there any other (better) approach? Can a finish nailer be used there? Sorry if my terminology is off.

Thanks,

Greg

 

[rsanter]

I have done a bunch of wood floors.
This is what I do....

You need to survey the rooms and take measurements to see how square the rooms are. This way you know what you will be dealing with before dealing with it.

Survey the rooms and determine where the important parts of the room are. Typically doorways and openings. That is where you will see the lines of the floor are straight or not. If you are a little crooked on a wall on the other side of the room covered by a wall unit....not so big of a deal.

Survey the rooms and determine what way you want the wood running. To me it looks like you may want the floor in bedroom 3 to go a different direction than the hallway. When I am at a doorway or wall opening and I want the floor to change direction. I install a wood cill that consists of two pieces of the hardwood under the door between the casing. Because you are using 3 1/2 width ,material you may just want to use one. You can also give definition between rooms by incorporating a different width of the same material and color at the door or wall opening. It’s not hard to do and shows that they are different spaces and that you put thought into it.

Open several boxes at a time. Inspect all the wood and separate it into prime and less than ideal pieces . Also separate any really short pieces into a different pile.
The really short pieces you need to try to use them up at the wall to start or end a row if you can.
Pieces that are of les than great quality can be used along the wall or in a closet. Use the prime pieces in the main part of the room and in the transition area from room to room.

I don’t like to do the closets with hardwood. Often I just keep carpet in the closet. It never wears out as there is no stress on it. But this is up to you.

Separate out any pieces that are warped or bowed. These can be a pain to deal with. I don’t trust the flooring nailer to driventhem into a straight position or to **** them up against the neighboring piece.
I use pipe clamps to pull it tight to the piece next to it or you can also use the pipe clamps with a long pipe to push from the opposite wall to push it tight to the neighboring piece.
I try to put these pieces in a location that they will have enough pieces of wood flooring on either side of them that they are trapped and cannot move. Also a little wood glue on only the bottom half of the toung is a good thing so you are binding the warped piece or the neighboring piece. Twisted boards I generally ignore.

When installing the floor, when you need a piece that will end that row and none of the short pieces are long enough, you will now have to but a longer piece to fit that spot. Select a piece that you will cut off at least 12” so you can now use that piece to start the next row.
This will reduce your waste as you go. Also I will sometimes see boards that have minor damage to one end (generally because of a natural flaw in the wood) these are good pieces to start a row with as you can hide the defect or cut it off.

Really check how flat your floor is before starting. If your flow is sagging or sloping, look at fixing that first. The shine/sheen of the wood floors with show this off more than carpet will.

I am having a hard time identifying where the entry for the Home is. Think about doing something interesting there. An inlay or define the entry space with a border square of the wood floor can add interest to the space. For not much trouble it will look like a ton of efforts was made there.

Get a good helper or two. You don’t want to get up and down a bunch. That will wear you out quicker than the Work will. The helper will bring the wood and stage it up for install. Having a helper that will cut the wood to your specification and bring it to,you will speed things up.
With two helpers I have been able to lay about 800 sq-ft of floor in a day

Not sure what else to say. If you have questions just ask

Bob

 

[usa#1]

Check subfloor to make sure it doesn't have any loose spots or squeaks first.

 

[rsanter]

Whats the approach for handling the first several rows along the wall. I know people face nail them. Is there any other (better) approach? Can a finish nailer be used there? Sorry if my terminology is off.

Thanks,

Greg

I like to use a long spacer board. This will help keep that starting row straight as you are adding the next couple of rows to it.

Yes you will be face nailing the first row, but you will not be able to use the flooring nailer till you get a few rows out. Select very straight material and use a large finish nailers angled into the edge of the toung

 

[rnscustom]

Are you using a starter strip and starting from the middle ?? ( piece with two tongues ) . Is this a common way or not . Seen this done on large open areas but wasn't sure if it was common practice

 

[Hpozzuoli]

When you get good at it, laying hardwood is fun. Always have a plan in your head and start square. Dont be afraid to use those transition strips or whatever the technical term is to reverse the direction of the wood.

 

[engineer2]

Some good advice here!

You use spline to change directions. Everyone sells it, but it comes in a couple of sizes, so make sure you get the right ones.

I only face nail the first and last rows where the face nails will be under the shoe or baseboard trim. I use my 15 ga. angle finishing nailer and wood glue until I can use the flooring stapler. I also glue the last row. Angle the nailer into the tongue as you would with the stapler. Make sure the boards you use are straight for the first rows and smack 'em tight before nailing.

It ***** to have a "sliver" for the last row. In these cases the tongue of the next-to-last row may need to be pre-drilled with an angle drill and then hand nailed with large finishing nails. If it's real tight you are almost nailing straight down, in which case the bottom of the groove on the last row may need to be trimmed to clear the nails. Glue the last row too.

A few tips
Most flooring staplers are designed for 80 psi. I suppose 100 would work, but if you are burying staples, back off on the pressure.

Remember to put a few drops of air tool oil in your stapler. WD-40 on the mechanical parts works well.

Cut off an old white sock and slip it over the rubber bumper (the part you hit) of the flooring stapler. It keeps the black rubber from accidentally marring a wall, and the sock absorbs any tool oil that may spray out the exhaust.

Make sure the boards you use for the first rows are straight!!

Use the longest nicest boards in the most visible areas. Closets or under appliances are for the boards that ****.

Get in the habit of checking how many staples are left before you start a new row.

A wood flooring jack is indespensible. Do a google search for one. Helps tame those slightly warped boards and tightens up the last few rows.

 

[Kaizen]

Whats the approach for handling the first several rows along the wall. I know people face nail them. Is there any other (better) approach? Can a finish nailer be used there? Sorry if my terminology is off.

Thanks,

Greg

I would snap a chalk line on the west wall kitchen to office. Put it far enough away from those walls so you can either screw straight boards down and have enough room to use the floor nailer or place first course longest floor pieces face nailed straight down. The second method you then reverse the flooring to go to the wall using face nails then right into integer rooms. No to Brad nailer. Needs to be about finish nail size 2-3 inches. You are using the floor nailer right not just an angle finish nailer?


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[greg86z28]

Lots of great information, thank you everyone. I will run back and answer a few questions folks had.

One other question I had, is this peak too high? That's a 4' level and on the left side (2' from the peak) it's about 1/4" gap and on the right side it's about 1/8". Should I be sanding that down (i've got an orbital sander).

I know the boards will conform to the peak, but I'm not sure if the matte finish of the wood will still show the peak blatantly.

Greg

 

[Zippercat]

Some extra screws might pull that high spot down. Might be better fix than sanding.

 

[Radix2]

Yes, you should sand it down. I have used the floor sander before putting down the floor to get out some of the humps - left when the carpenters go over joist hangers from flush beams below. A little blending will help everything to lay nice.

 

[greg86z28]

Ok. Will evaluate that spot tonight to see how to approach leveling.

Will provide more updates this weekend. I plan on snapping some lines and developing a plan then when my wife is home to help.

Our Berner, Winnie, doesn't have thumbs and isn't a good helper.

 

[Radix2]

Some extra screws might pull that high spot down. Might be better fix than sanding.

Worth a try, but most floors are glued and nailed these days, so no gaps to work with...

 

[greg86z28]

I looked at my high spot. That sits right on a floor joist. I'm not sure if screws are going to pull it down. The subfloor is glued and stapled. Might require some sanding. Will look at it more this weekend.

Here is the nailer I'll be using that my cousin lent me.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000302TH/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[engineer2]

That's cheaper than Menards.

 

[Kaizen]

If you have a wood plane or such probably faster. Even a chisel after shallow saw cut. Honestly I don't think it will be noticed or be an issue if you leave it. Floors move with joists all year long. No one much notices.


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[greg86z28]

I laid out the flooring on the high spot. It's not really noticeable. I definitely don't think a stranger would notice it. I'm going to leave it be.

I started to screw down the subfloor yesterday. I also started to sort the wood into small/large piles and also light/dark piles (it's a non select maple so there is color variation).

I also started to check for how square things are. I started on the EAST wall in the Kitchen and Dining room. This room itself appears to be pretty square. I did not check if it is square to the Office yet, I plan on doing that tonight. I did check if the Kitchen/Dining centerline was square to the hallway. It is NOT square to the WEST wall in the hallway. It's off by a little under an inch over the entire length of the hallway. See picture. Line L1 is my initial line and is parallel to the EAST wall in the kitchen/dining room. I then moved into the hallway using 3-4-5 triangles and snapped line L2. L2 is parallel to L1 but unfortunately L2 is not parallel to that WEST wall in the hallway. For measuring, I'm just measuring off the drywall at the floor.

Should my plan remain the same, with the exception of ripping the final board before the hallway at a custom angle to square myself for the hallway? I have a router and could remake the tongue or groove and probably get pretty close to recreating the microbevel.

We do want the wood to run continuously over the whole house.

Thank you!

 

[greg86z28]

EDIT: Nevermind. This is the underlayment I'm going to get.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fortifiber-500-sq-ft-Aquabar-B-Tile-Underlayment-Roll-70-195/202592567

 

[Lelandwelds]

I got excited for a minute. I thought you were installing wood flooring in the garage.

 

[Kaizen]

I laid out the flooring on the high spot. It's not really noticeable. I definitely don't think a stranger would notice it. I'm going to leave it be.



I started to screw down the subfloor yesterday. I also started to sort the wood into small/large piles and also light/dark piles (it's a non select maple so there is color variation).



I also started to check for how square things are. I started on the EAST wall in the Kitchen and Dining room. This room itself appears to be pretty square. I did not check if it is square to the Office yet, I plan on doing that tonight. I did check if the Kitchen/Dining centerline was square to the hallway. It is NOT square to the WEST wall in the hallway. It's off by a little under an inch over the entire length of the hallway. See picture. Line L1 is my initial line and is parallel to the EAST wall in the kitchen/dining room. I then moved into the hallway using 3-4-5 triangles and snapped line L2. L2 is parallel to L1 but unfortunately L2 is not parallel to that WEST wall in the hallway. For measuring, I'm just measuring off the drywall at the floor.



Should my plan remain the same, with the exception of ripping the final board before the hallway at a custom angle to square myself for the hallway? I have a router and could remake the tongue or groove and probably get pretty close to recreating the microbevel.



We do want the wood to run continuously over the whole house.



Thank you!

Make one line and start laying it. If that line is straight then you will just figure out the rest as you go. When you get to another room lay out a few courses to see if you need to cut a piece to make it square with the new starting wall in the new room. Be aware making anything more then a small angle will be noticeable. Having it all figured out before hand isn't vital


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[jake00]

I’m guessing your projects moving along at this point, but if not, I’d rent a floor edger from Home Depo and get that plywood flat ( I dohardwood for a living )