Hardwood in an un-climate controlled building.

[PatDoody]

I recently built a smallish 20x16 outbuilding for my wood projects. I have a ton of wood flooring left from other projects, I was thinking of installing out there. I know typically you dont want to install the wood floor in a house that doesnt have the heat/ac on yet.. But in the out building it will never have heat or ac so the humidity will always just match what the weather is doing... Ive been trying to sell myself on the idea that nothing bad will happen if I put the wood down in the barn as my house has a walk up attic with wood floors installed and its not climate controlled either, and they have no problems...

https://scontent-iad3-1.**.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15390836_10154185682746417_4754302088318488052_n.jpg?oh=caaa321f767abf6e5e2d85eb080ccf7e&oe=58FCBB2E

 

[kd3pc]

most hardwoods used in flooring will cup and shrink/expand without HVAC and so on. Subflooring can make a difference, but If you don't mind a less than perfectly level floor you will be happy

 

[PatDoody]

Both levels of the barn have a plywood subfloor down already.. Its starting to get cold here and I want to get the floors done so I can start moving stuff in..

 

[bullnerd]

Cool barn Pat, any details here on it?

 

[PatDoody]

Cool barn Pat, any details here on it?

I was going to make a thread when I started it, but its been progressing a lot slower than I am proud to admit lol. I have alot of photos of the build maybe ill just puke out a thread one night

 

[NUTTSGT]

I was going to make a thread when I started it, but its been progressing a lot slower than I am proud to admit lol. I have alot of photos of the build maybe ill just puke out a thread one night

I can't help you on the flooring but I can tell you Rome wasn't built in a day. Bring on the build thread with pictures.

 

[vettex2]

use an engineered floating floor
It's like plywood but it's a floor
Floating floors won't buckle since they are not adhered to the subfloor , you leave a gap around the edge and use baseboards to cover the gap

 

[southalabama]

What he said. Engineered flooring laminate be stable. Can still achieve the look without instability of wood.

 

[bullnerd]

I was going to make a thread when I started it, but its been progressing a lot slower than I am proud to admit lol. I have alot of photos of the build maybe ill just puke out a thread one night

That would be cool, id like to see it.

Did you buy plans? Design on the go? Trusses?

I want to build something very similar.

 

[MagKarl]

I'd do it, you already have the material and know what to expect.

 

[bullnerd]

I am no flooring expert but have experienced wood cupping. The problems I've seen were from only one side of the material being sealed/coated. Sealed side does not absorb moisture as much as the non-sealed side. Non-sealed side expands more=cupping. I've seen whole tables do this. Maybe seal both sides or non at all? Bunch of old factories around here with wood floors that haven't had moisture control ever, and floors are beautifully flat.

Also, when you say wood flooring, you mean like 3" straight grain, specifically made for flooring? Shouldn't be a problem. Stuffs designed to move too much.

All JMO though.

 

[PatDoody]

use an engineered floating floor
It's like plywood but it's a floor
Floating floors won't buckle since they are not adhered to the subfloor , you leave a gap around the edge and use baseboards to cover the gap

The upstairs I am going to do in engineered hardwood because its what I have enough of I was already planning on leaving the gap around the edges and also put down roofing felt under neath.. but am going to be nailing it down I would think the nails would stop it from "floating" I put down a 3/8 underlayment which I also left 3/8" off of the sides of the walls. Also the engineered stuff is pre finshed with a few different styles I am going to combine.

That would be cool, id like to see it.
Did you buy plans? Design on the go? Trusses?
I want to build something very similar.

Nope I just went for it. Its such simple construction anyone with basic construction knowledge should be able to figure it. I also kinda replicated one they have for sale at lowes, I just changed a few things.

I am no flooring expert but have experienced wood cupping. The problems I've seen were from only one side of the material being sealed/coated. Sealed side does not absorb moisture as much as the non-sealed side. Non-sealed side expands more=cupping. I've seen whole tables do this. Maybe seal both sides or non at all? Bunch of old factories around here with wood floors that haven't had moisture control ever, and floors are beautifully flat.

Also, when you say wood flooring, you mean like 3" straight grain, specifically made for flooring? Shouldn't be a problem. Stuffs designed to move too much.

All JMO though.

The down stairs I am going to use 3/4" normal flooring, thing is I am just using stuff left over from a bunch of jobs its gonna be a mish-mash of different finishes and woods.. I guess I could rent a sander and try to strip the finishes off after I install it. Or maybe run it through my surface planer with it set super light just enough to skim off the finish. The upstairs is priority right now tho.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Plans, pictures, and videos!

 

[bullnerd]

That's cool.

 

[ccwent]

You will have problem.... There are ways to minimize them but they will happen.

Worse case if you install it wall to wall is the wood blowing the barn off the foundation. Wood flooring is what I do for a living and I inspect over 100 floors a year. An uncontrolled space is BAD. I've see engineered wood floor grow over 1" in a house with not AC and on a small lake. If you want a wood look install a floating vinyl plank floor.

 

[bullnerd]

"blowing the barn off the foundation."

Uhh, yeah, your going to have to elaborate on that! A lot.

Oh, ok, so if it grows it will push out on the sill plates and "blow the barn off the foundation"?

 

[Radix2]

You will have problem.... There are ways to minimize them but they will happen.

Worse case if you install it wall to wall is the wood blowing the barn off the foundation. Wood flooring is what I do for a living and I inspect over 100 floors a year. An uncontrolled space is BAD. I've see engineered wood floor grow over 1" in a house with not AC and on a small lake. If you want a wood look install a floating vinyl plank floor.

I don't know if you have ever read the installation requirements on the vinyl plank, but it all requires crazy tight temperature control. Like must be maintained between 65-85. Real wood or the pergo stuff is better for cottages or other uncontrolled spaces.

OP- the only issue with wood is humidity, but of course there are plenty of hundred year old places where it has survived. The issue would be to install during high humidity so that during the dry season it can gap a bit, and not buckle. Installing in the bone dry winter would be bad.

Caution on using your thickness planer on that flooring... the prefinished coatings are aluminum oxide based - really hard on blades, the stuff is the same as what sandpaper is made from...


Just to restate the obvious. Every house built before recent times was uncontrolled for summer humidity and had ultra dry winters. Millions of these houses had hardwood floors that are fine.

 

[ccwent]

Issues with vinyl have to due with the adhesives not the product. The reason the manufacturer requires the constant temp is due to the adhesive releasing. I sell all types of hard surface product and get ask all the time by my flooring retailers what they can put in on a uncontrolled sunroom or porch. The best product is porcelain tile. Floating Vinyl is the way to go.

Keep in mind older homes were built entirely different that today's construction. Hardwood floors are to the largest trend is to go wider in width 10 to 15 years ago the norm was 2 1/4" flooring today wide width is what everyone want and purchases. The wider the width the greater the chance for failure. A lot of older home also have 1/4 sawn of shorts for a reason. Somewhat uncontrolled environment. NWFA states 35% to 55% RH must be maintained always 5" wide hickory will see almost 1/16" of movement within these 20% swing.

Installing 3/4" on the main level you are 4" to dirt, moisture is going to be sucked up like sponge. One year ago I seen a 3 1/4" yellow Birch floor engineered sawn face floor from a major Canadian supplier grow 3" in a span of 28'. I observed this flooring in September the house was on a lake and the home had been uncontrolled for over two month when the homeowners didn't use any AC because they didn't need it.

I sell Kroger grocery store a lot of LVT. Near the coolers and the entrance doors during the winter the floors rarely see 50ºF they don't have issue because they epoxy the floors.

 

[Marctrees]

Just two separate thoughts - Hardwood flooring is dried to something ballpark around 6%

to be in a "conditioned" environment.

Funny stuff may happen in your application.

Second - What's wrong with a 3/4" plywood floor ?? Marc

 

[vettex2]

The upstairs I am going to do in engineered hardwood because its what I have enough of I was already planning on leaving the gap around the edges and also put down roofing felt under neath.. but am going to be nailing it down I would think the nails would stop it from "floating" I put down a 3/8 underlayment which I also left 3/8" off of the sides of the walls. Also the engineered stuff is pre finshed with a few different styles I am going to combine.

There are nail down, glue down and floating floor versions.

you want the floating floor version

 

[vettex2]

Issues with vinyl have to due with the adhesives not the product. The reason the manufacturer requires the constant temp is due to the adhesive releasing. I sell all types of hard surface product and get ask all the time by my flooring retailers what they can put in on a uncontrolled sunroom or porch. The best product is porcelain tile. Floating Vinyl is the way to go.

Wow, That wasn't even heard of when I quit the industry just a few years ago. There were vinyl plank products but not floaters.

 

[Radix2]

Issues with vinyl have to due with the adhesives not the product. The reason the manufacturer requires the constant temp is due to the adhesive releasing. I sell all types of hard surface product and get ask all the time by my flooring retailers what they can put in on a uncontrolled sunroom or porch. The best product is porcelain tile. Floating Vinyl is the way to go.

Keep in mind older homes were built entirely different that today's construction. Hardwood floors are to the largest trend is to go wider in width 10 to 15 years ago the norm was 2 1/4" flooring today wide width is what everyone want and purchases. The wider the width the greater the chance for failure. A lot of older home also have 1/4 sawn of shorts for a reason. Somewhat uncontrolled environment. NWFA states 35% to 55% RH must be maintained always 5" wide hickory will see almost 1/16" of movement within these 20% swing.

Installing 3/4" on the main level you are 4" to dirt, moisture is going to be sucked up like sponge. One year ago I seen a 3 1/4" yellow Birch floor engineered sawn face floor from a major Canadian supplier grow 3" in a span of 28'. I observed this flooring in September the house was on a lake and the home had been uncontrolled for over two month when the homeowners didn't use any AC because they didn't need it.

I sell Kroger grocery store a lot of LVT. Near the coolers and the entrance doors during the winter the floors rarely see 50ºF they don't have issue because they epoxy the floors.

It may well work out, but it states very explicitly in all the vinyl floating plank floor specs I have been able to find that they require strict temperature control.

I wanted to install this in a lakeside cabin that we wanted to be able to let go cold. I was unable to find a single one that did not have tight restrictions. None of them had any adhesives.

I ended up using it in the bathroom anyway since I can't see how a small area would have an issue.

If you have a manufacturer that allows usage in uncontrolled spaces I would like to know it, I have another space and I like these products. Please post who you suggest.

 

[Zeke]

use an engineered floating floor
It's like plywood but it's a floor
Floating floors won't buckle since they are not adhered to the subfloor , you leave a gap around the edge and use baseboards to cover the gap

What he said. Engineered flooring laminate be stable. Can still achieve the look without instability of wood.

He said he has flooring on hand and wants to use that. I think I'd just lay the flooring and not try to bang it together so hard. Leave some room for expansion. The wood floor installer I use leaves a 1/4" gap right down the center with wedges in it that can give. 2-3 days and that is mostly closed up. After sanding everything is equalized and ready for finish. Pretty sure the sander's vibrations do that to the floor.

I would have to believe from experience that this mismatch of flooring is not all the same thickness therefore I would not skip the sanding stage.

 

[vettex2]

He said he has flooring on hand and wants to use that.

He said that AFTER I made my comment.

 

[PatDoody]

I want to do the hardwood mostly
1. I have it.
2. Its easier to sweep saw dust up off of it.
3. I think it will wear better than just a plywood floor.

I will probably wait till summer to do the main floor of the building with the 3/4 wood. My idea was that if I do it when its most humid It will only be able to shrink when it drys in the winter.. I started to put down the engineered floor upstairs basically just put down roofing felt and am nailing the floor down with staples to the plywood leaving a 3/8 gap around the perimeter. I am not sure if this is what people call a floating floor? Ive seen that pergo junk that like clicks together and doesn't need any fasteners but that stuff is made out of like cardboard. The engineered wood is only 3/8 thick but needs a fastener it cant just sit there.

 

[vettex2]

Floating floors are neither glued or nailed down

 

[Firebird 1]

If you have it use. Once it stabilizes to the environment there shouldn't be too much of a problem. Wood is a pretty stable product that has been used on floors for centuries. It will swell a bit in the summer and shrink a bit in the winter.

 

[jake00]

You're on the right track with installing it in the summer.

My family owns a hardwood flooring mill. We have some hardwood flooring glued to the slab in an area we test product in. The area is heated, but there is no environmental control in the summer. We haven't had an issue