harrison M250(bantam) vs clausing industrial 11.30

[old-air-performance]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a new (used) lathe.
I found a colchester bantam 2000 ( in US branded as harrison m250) and a boxford industrial 11.30 ( clausing in the US)

You guys have experience with one of these models? or recommendations?
both have 11" nominal swing and have 30" between centers, d1.3 camlock nose with 35mm bore and mt3 spindle

the colchester spec:
52-2000 rpm
metric gearbox , for imperial you need a changewheel, not included
has cooling, and detachable tray for cleaning
comes with fixed and traveling steady
has a quick change toolholder (multifix)
3 and 4 jaw chuck
spindle brake
looks taken very good care off (hobby)
cost 3600€ / 4100 dollar


boxford spec:
40-2240rpm
metric and imperial gearbox , without fiddling
comes with quick-change collet holder and collets
3 and 4 jaw chuck
looks in decent used shape (professional use)
cost 2300€ / 2600 dollar

I am looking for quality, versatility

Since both lathes are not near by, what lathe would you go look at first ( and if its ok take home with you) ?

All input will be appreciated.

Toon

 

[matt_i]

The colchester would be the one I'd look at first. You didn't list the weight but in general a heavier machine is better.

The one caveat is that all my life I've run manual lathes with the carriage handwheel on the left. Several of the Colchester variants with gap bed have the handwheel on the Right and that would be a tough ergonomic pill to swallow for me.

You can get a quick check on wear by checking out backlash (lost motion) in the cross-slide handwheel, and then by taking a dial test indicator and magnet base, put the base on the carriage, put the point on the tailstock flat way, move the carriage to extreme ends of travel noting the difference in the needle as you go. So in essence you are tracing the tailstock flat way guided by the carriage flat+ vee. The basic assumption is that the tailstock ways wear at a rate 1/100th to 1/1000th of that of the carriage which is doing all of the work.

In general, backlash values on the cross slide .010" and less are very good, on the way-trace you really want .005" or less. Many machines work just fine with more wear than that but that's a WAG in the direction about the level where you have to compensate for it. Sometimes the ends of the ways where nothing gets done are slightly crusty and this makes for strange readings way out at one end, the ~12" closest to the chuck is the most important part of it.

Last and maybe most important, turning some actual material on the machine is your most valuable test. You'll have to arrange with the seller on whether they are OK with that, I'd bring your own round stock, you might have to borrow a cutting tool, and definitely offer to cleanup/vacuum up after the test. If the lathe isn't under power then thats a point of medium concern.

Good luck!

 

[old-air-performance]

Hi Matt,

Thank you for your input.
I'm going to check out the colchester first, and i'll take my dial indicator and magnetic base with me.
If its good, i'll bring it home.

Kind regards, Toon

 

[Ganymedes]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a new (used) lathe.
I found a colchester bantam 2000 ( in US branded as harrison m250) and a boxford industrial 11.30 ( clausing in the US)

You guys have experience with one of these models? or recommendations?
both have 11" nominal swing and have 30" between centers, d1.3 camlock nose with 35mm bore and mt3 spindle

the colchester spec:
52-2000 rpm
metric gearbox , for imperial you need a changewheel, not included
has cooling, and detachable tray for cleaning
comes with fixed and traveling steady
has a quick change toolholder (multifix)
3 and 4 jaw chuck
spindle brake
looks taken very good care off (hobby)
cost 3600€ / 4100 dollar


boxford spec:
40-2240rpm
metric and imperial gearbox , without fiddling
comes with quick-change collet holder and collets
3 and 4 jaw chuck
looks in decent used shape (professional use)
cost 2300€ / 2600 dollar

I am looking for quality, versatility

Since both lathes are not near by, what lathe would you go look at first ( and if its ok take home with you) ?

All input will be appreciated.

Toon

Without hesitation I would go for the Harrison/Colchester from the "600 Group of Industries" Since 1978 I owe a Harrison M300, 25" centerlength, no gap, bought new for 12500 old Dutch guilders, including VAT/BTW/TVA.( I took a 2nd mortgage on my house then (my wife was, not is anymore,a little foolish!) The lathe is only used for hobbywork, although I made a lot of money, making things for other guys. I still love it, 40 years later, the M300 lives now 11 years in France, like I do, after retirement.
I think the price is nice for that lathe. You might download the "Schlesinger norms for lathes" from internet, and use them to check the lathe. Good luck!

 

[Dave455]

Both good choices as both are excellent machines, and spares seem to fairly readily available from the manufacturers.

Most Boxfords I’ve used have been older machines but I’ve never had any complaints.

The last manufacturing company I worked for had Colchester Triumphs and they were superb. Really solid machines. One was in pretty decent condition, the other had seen hard use, and some abuse too, but Colchester supplied the few parts we needed by return!

In the U.K. there’s a lot of competition among machines of that size, mainly because they are perfect as decent size amateur machines, or small industrial. A lot of folks go for things like Myfords (and they are a delight to use) but to be honest, the Colchester Bantam is a more capable, and probably tougher, machine for a similar footprint!

I’d probably be tempted by the Colchester!

 

[old-air-performance]

thanks for the input guys,
I sold my myford, for a bigger and heavier lathe.

I went to check the colchester today, took a trailer with me.
lathe looks really good almost as new, no wear, hardly used.

Looked very promising, until i saw this:

a hole and crack in the apron , so i thanked the seller for his time, and headed back home ....

 

[Ganymedes]

thanks for the input guys,
I sold my myford, for a bigger and heavier lathe.

I went to check the colchester today, took a trailer with me.
lathe looks really good almost as new, no wear, hardly used.

Looked very promising, until i saw this:

a hole and crack in the apron , so i thanked the seller for his time, and headed back home ....

That´s bad luck, Old Air, you´re far from blind! Look for another one, there happen to be lots for sale, although prices are risen for three-phase occasions since there are frequency inverters to run these 400/415V machines on 230/240V single phase. Good luck to find another one!

 

[davethorik]

Better to find that now than when it is in your shop!!

 

[old-air-performance]

Last week i went to see the boxford, and altough cosmetically it looked like sh* , i checked everything with my dial indicator, and everything was perfect.
I was allowed to make some cuts, and check all the gears etc.
It was only used to machine some small precise parts, so didn't had a hard life.
it also came with a quick change collet closer and 10 schaublin collets.

after some cleaning:

Toon