Has anyone been an owner-builder before?

[fordguy64]

Hey guys

So I'm looking at buying some property and building a house and a shop on on it! But I'm looking into doing as much of it myself as I can. I have a lot of connections in a lot of trades electrical plumbing hvac and a concrete guy that does flat work. I myself am a jack of all trades type. I work in a r & d shop for P&g where I'm everything from a carpenter to a welder and then some.

Just curious what your experiences are with it? Is it worth the extra hassle?

So the plan is to finish fixing my house up. I should make between 50-75k on it(that's the plan anyway). I will finance the property (already have my eye on some) then take the money from selling my house to get the house/garage work started. Move in with my gf to save some $$$ and then finish the house out hopefully with out borrowing to much money
Crazy idea?

 

[SteveCh]

I did it. Built every single thing on the property, by myself. My dozens of friends and co-workers who were excited at the prospect of helping never once showed up. Took me six years, and years later, there are still some things I work on.

In my case, I was young and fascinated with the idea of doing it myself. Plus, at my wages, I never had extra $$ to hire anyone.

The plus side: I moved in after those six years with no mortgage, no debt.

The down side: It took me six years of weekends, nights, and any other spare time I could find. Plus, I did not have any machinery or power tools. I do now, but I couldn't afford it then.

Another hassle, at least in my county, was that the building department cast a jaundiced eye on anyone wanting to do it himself. It took me seven months of hassle to get around their reluctance to give me a permit. A contractor could've likely had the permits in hand in a few weeks.

Also, it cost me my relationship because all my time off work was spent doing this project. My girlfriend thought I was nuts and would never really get it done, and she bailed about year number two. [Ultimately did me a favor, considering who I ended up with forever.]

Another idea to consider is designing the place yourself, get those plans approved by an architect, then hire out various contractors to do various parts of the project. My brother-in-law just recently finished building his retirement home on a lake, and he did this. He hired out the dirt work and concrete, the plumbing, framing, etc. Each time choosing a contractor he liked. He did do a lot of finish work and grunt work such as running the electrical and landscaping and so forth. Still it took him about four years. He ended up saving a lot of money, and he has his owner-designed place and it's exactly what he wanted.

 

[joe--h]

Financing for bare land is difficult, banks aren't real interested in repossessing half finished projects.
You need to start by talking to your building dept about what is allowed. Different jurisdictions have different (mostly nonsense) rules for what you can do yourself.
I owner/built in Utah with zero problems. Passed all inspections with no trouble. Did it all, except the flat work.
Now I'm in another state and all kinds of BS. Only a licensed electrician can pull a permit, OR I can take the NEC journeyman test (with a closed book) & if I pass I can pull the permit. Electricians take the test open book.
HVAC work has to be done by a licensed HVAC contractor.
Start with building dept, figure out your financing.
And good luck with those buddies who are going to help, figure you'll be waiting a long time.
Joe H

 

[buddyboy]

depending on the acreage you should talk to a farm credit type lender.

also look into buying enough land to take advantage of state property tax breaks.

you might pay more for 15 acres than you would 10 acres but the property taxes could be way less on the 15 acres and after a few years of tax savings those extra acres would pay for themselves.

as far as building on your own as a GC... the only thing you'll run into is getting the subs to show up when they say they will and getting them to come back if you need them.

the reason is that the subs will all have a few guys that feed them constant work. if they have to choose between coming out to your place next week or taking a last minute call from one of their steady clients, you'll lose every time.

you'll get calls on the friday before: "sorry, I know I told you I'd be there Monday but..."

if you're under no pressure from lenders or spouses to get it done by a certain date then go for it, just remember to be cool and not lose your head when things go wrong and be more patient than you would be if working with a GC.

 

[jetnow1]

You might want to see what is required to get a contractors license in your state, some are as simple as writing a check, and that license will go a long way with getting subs to
show up, and getting suppliers to see you as real.

 

[rsanter]

My dad built a couple of the houses that they have lived in. Not a big deal.

Generally he hired all the specific trades. Trenching/grading, concrete, plumbing, framing, roofing....etc
Then in between he did a bunch of the smaller jobs and a lot of finish work.

If you can do it then do it. You will save a bunch of money and be able to watch that all the work was done correct.

Fair warning, you will have the phone attached to your ear 75% of your waking day calling people to be sure things get done, imspected, corrected....etc

Bob

 

[JCQuick]

I did it on my shop. But not when we built the house I did secure a loan on just the property but I paid for most of it with the cash from my old house

 

[GSRinmyCRX]

going through it right now. my advice so far would be set a reasonable timeline for yourself. the first couple months in I was working every night after work and all weekend and got burned out very fast, it can be very overwhelming with so much to do. I have toned it back a bit and even though progress is slower its much more enjoyable.

don't forget to add beer to your building budget. it has become the currency of my project.

Levi

 

[wssix99]

^ Lots of good advice here.

I did it. Built every single thing on the property, by myself. My dozens of friends and co-workers who were excited at the prospect of helping never once showed up. Took me six years, and years later, there are still some things I work on.

I'm in a similar situation. I bought the land over 6 years ago, been in the ground for over 3 years, and I might get my final inspection this summer. Then, I've got several years of fixing the rest of the stuff my trades F*'d up while they were "helping" get the house built, doing the landscaping, painting, etc.


Is it worth it? NO. I haven't had a "real" vacation or weekend off in 6 years and still don't know when I'll get one of either. That's a lot of life that has gone by. I would only consider doing something like this if its the final house and the one you intend to die in. (That might happen before the house is completed...)

I hope that I will walk away with no regrets when its really over as this is my final house. We covered all the bases: 2nd master suite on by the kitchen level, 3 foot wide doors throughout, stacked closets for a future elevator - all set to be renovated to be old in. (The only thing we forgot: a crypt. So, we can't really "die" in the house. My wife or I will need to move out before the other.) This IS NOT the kind of project to take on for investment purposes or for a house that you'll move out of once you have kids, etc.

BTW - Looking in to my crystal ball... Your girlfriend will probably dump you if you do this. (Unless you have something extremely compelling to keep her captive.) This type of things seriously tests marriages and less committed relationships don't have a chance.

 

[GSRinmyCRX]

also make sure you call around when getting pricing on things. we have a number of different building suppliers in the area and pricing can be drastically different. one place was cheaper with pluming stuff and another for concrete supplies. a few min of phone calls can save you serious money. My wife does the calling around most of the time. its it off my plate and she feels like she is helping out more, double bonus.

Levi

 

[Smoker]

I'm doing this right now. I'm contracting out the stuff I don't want to do - concrete, raising the trusses) but doing everything else myself. Framing went up in just over a week, utilities are stubbed. Just get plenty of good help and don't be afraid to question and correct anyone helping or contracted. Its actually going much quicker than I thought but I'll be taking a break once its dried in and waiting til fall to shingle the roof and put up the siding. If you have all the tools and are pretty handy I would say go for it. But if your not sure and are lacking some of the vital tools, don't even try and do it yourself.

 

[red61cj5]

I wanted to do it for years but held off since I lived in Pinellas county, Fla. No way to get finanacing and the inspectors would have failed everything from their cars once they heard you were doing it yourself. So I went to rural WV, and its a whole different culture. My Fla. house gave me decent cash ( just before the balloon popped), and we lived in a small rented cabin for the year it took to get the new house move in ready. Building permit was 10 bucks with a hand drawing, mostly making sure it wasn't too close to a road or a stream, and the only county inspection was for the septic system! I did everything except the block work, HVAC, and drywall. People from the neighborhood (or hollow, really), would stop by and help for a while, but mostly just me and whatever family or friends came to visit. And this was in 2006, not the fifties. My home cost about 70g all told, and I have no loans out on it. I started my shop a few months ago, and the county clerk didn't even want permit this time, she said "not less its in a flood zone, honey" True, this does lead to some pretty outlaw looking construction projects, but the countryside here looks better than most over regulated cities I've been in. Point is its completely doable, just more doable in certain areas.

 

[kaymccampbell]

We did it ourselves 32 years ago. It was a lot simpler then. Even then it's not for the weak. Every day you gotta be out there banging away til it's done. No days off, no excuses.

 

[Richard Cranium]

My story is almost a copy of Stevech's, Had lots of friends who said they would help, can count on one hand the number of friends who really did. Some neighbors offered to help, like when I poured concrete, But they also wanted a little bit poured and wanted me to add their little bit onto my truck load. As soon as the truck was ready to go to their home they were gone and was never to be seen again. Not even to pay their share of the cement bill.
Really Really had on the marriage. I fact I took a full year off, because we were fighting so bad. Mine tool 7 years to complete, But it was paid for the day I moved in.

 

[MushCreek]

I just finished building our house, pretty much single-handed. I hired out the excavation, concrete, and drywall. Here in rural SC, they are easy-going about DIY, and the inspections were very light. It took me 1/2 hour and $400 to get the permit. I left work and building the house was my full-time job for about three years. It's something I always wanted to do, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. I'm 62, and the work was hard, but doable. We did the whole project cash, so it's all paid for. Now I'm back to work for a few years before I retire for good.

 

[red61cj5]

Forgot to mention that I did take off work for the year I was building, except a few shifts here and there to keep my license current. My wife and twins gave me no grief, took the whole thing in stride, Probably one of the best years we've had together. My favorite thing is that I can reach almost every inch of plumbing in the house without busting drywall, I've got access panels, shutoff valves and cleanouts freakin everywhere.

 

[gtae07]

I started building my shop (see signature link) with the intent of doing everything myself. I wound up hiring out the concrete pour/finishing, siding, roofing, and drywall. It took ten months and really burned a lot of goodwill with my wife. She's forgiven me now and it wasn't going to kill our marriage, but spending every free weekend and a couple evenings a week on construction really upset her.

On the plus side, the city was really good about it and the inspectors were friendly and understanding of a DIY effort. One even complemented me on my rebar work--said it was the best he's ever seen

But next time? I'm hiring it out. I learned a whole lot about construction and building codes and I saved a bunch of money, but in the interest of marital peace and spending time with my son, we're paying for the next shop/house.

 

[MagKarl]

As others have said, it takes a ton of time. Every evening, weekend, holiday, and vacation day and will still take way longer than hiring it out. You have to figure out how your time and money relate to decide for yourself. You can be an owner/builder and sub out all the work, or you can do some or all of it yourself. Banks don't like you to take a long time, but they like it when you pay a lot of interest and extend your construction loan. It's a trade.

 

[Cyberbear]

Early in life while attending college to be an architect, I was exposed to the several trades relating to home construction. I witnessed the folly of inviting friends and relatives to help while pouring concrete, and drinking beer, resulting in negative results and bad finished work. Don't attempt to do anything by learning on your first project, hire a professional.
All other work is simpler and can be fixed if done improperly. Over my life time I've built three shops, from 600 to 2400 sq/ft in size. Owner/builder is a great way to go if you have the aptitude for it.

 

[stikman56]

We just had one built. I don't think I could have bought the materials and built it cheaper. These builders get such discounts on materials, when I saw the breakdown of it, I couldn't touch the pricing. Example, 60 squares of architectural roofing and all the trimmings and installation for $6200.00, the siding was cheap too at $7100.00 ,It would have cost me $12000.00 to buy it here. You can also make all the changes you want with most of the built on your lot homes, walls, whatever. We changed the roof pitch and did multiple upgrades. In the end it appraised for almost $100,000 more than we have in the whole thing. Doing it yourself is going to talk all of your time. Doing it the way we did still took much of my time.

 

[LJFULLER]

I've done it several times and have another going right now. If you plan on doing as much as you can your build time gets extended and burnout can be a problem. A few others already commented on that so it's pretty common when you take on this kind of project. Building permits are usually good for 1 year and easily extended, but every jurisdiction has different rules so consider that. Most banks wont touch a project in process so have a plan for financing to get it finished if you end up burned out or your friends and help don't come through. In my experience there is no up side to doing the insulation, drywall, or roofing. I priced materials and got bids, the bids were close enough to my materials cost that I just paid to have it done.

 

[TLCObsession]

BTDT. Assuming I needed a loan, if I were going to do it today, I would get a GC to build the shell to the point of getting a Certificate of Occupancy so that the bank would not hassle me and I could convert the construction loan to a conventional. Then I would do all the finishing with cash as I went and do the flooring, cabinets, trim etc. This is at least half of what the cost to build is on a low to mid priced home and half or more if go up in quality.

I basically built my ex's house using a HELOC on my place to pay the GC (who was a friend) to do the shell. I supplied the windows and some other materials that I could get great deals on. Then I did the flooring, cabinets, ceilings (all douglas fir T&G) electrical trim out, trim, finish plumbing etc. Cost about $215K for a house that is worth $450K

 

[FANTM58]

Oops

 

[FANTM58]

I'm in the middle of it now. We purchased 2.6 acres
And picked the plans we liked , then modified them to meet our needs.
Soils tests, promised in2 weeks, we got them In 5 weeks
Then they didn't do the septic design,,another 2 weeks .
Then off to the structural engineer , again promised in about 2 weeks
,,,,3 months later still waiting???? We though we could get a construction
Loan and build the new house , move in then sale our existing house.
But after looking at all the closing costs and fees ,,,,
We are now looking into sale our house first, besides the market
Is really strong . And it is a good time to un load. Then we'll have to find somewhere to live during construction . Again , not a big fan of rent or living with someone. So we're looking into buying a small property to live in
And renovate, then use as a rental property. I will be G C in the build
And doing a-lot of construction. But not all. I. Going to install the hydronic
And A/C, Windows/ metal roofing and shop build. And painting( I hate painting )
And we will be running the build through work, then when completed we'll get a loan pay off work.
Sorry for being a bit long winded ,,,

 

[86turbodsl]

I did it on our house. I figure the 20% or so i saved by not using a GC got put back into more nicer things. I had extensive contracting experience before i started, and had promises for lots of help from friends and family, in the end only my mom and dad would come up for help. It took me 2.5 years to complete. This area is DIY friendly, but you pass all normal inspections like a builder. It is a big house, very complicated victorian replica. I hired out the shell and roofing, concrete and drywall. I did the mechanicals and siding. I would probably not do it again. I got tired of the bank hassling me to get it done. I was still over a year past their time limit. And you pay interest on the whole construction loan until you can convert. It's expensive.

 

[fordguy64]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm still trying to get all of the big things covered like a gc that would be willing to help out in some areas but not necessarily do all the work. I will for sure be hiring out the concrete work. I've done some small concrete jobs around my house and well they turned out ok but not what I had expected lol. I have a cousin that works for a large bank so I emailed her this morning to see what she can do to help this dream become a reality. My girlfriend understands that this is going to pretty much **** to do and that there will be lots of long days and nights spent working on it. I know what you all mean by people not showing up to help but I have a pretty good group of friends that I'm sure will help some. I don't expect them to spend a lot of time out helping me but I'm sure I can get them out to help raise trusses and things of that nature.

If this project ever takes off I will be sure to start a build thread.
Property is 20 acres that secluded but 10 min from Home Depot and groceries. Pretty good school district and cheap living. The property meets a cauv tax credit for woodland I believe. Garage will be attached to the house just because of the way the property is payed out with property lines and lots of trees. But the garage will be 1500-2000 sqft with around 1700 of house with 1000sqft basement all under one roof

 

[MDSPHOTO]

The problem with doing it yourself is that you cant take advantage of the economies of scale a contractor/builder has. Builders squeeze subcontractors by offering them multiple jobs or future work, as an individual you don't have that leverage. Additionally, you're a one-off job and you are the last priority for a sub. That being said your aren't paying the mark-ups for a builder. So it's really a trade off when it comes to price. It comes down to time and oversight. Do you have the time to field multiple bids for each sub, do you have the time to follow-up with them when they don't show up, make sure the work was completed, make sure it was done right, get them back to fix issues. We've done it both ways and I can tell you if you have a full time job not having someone overseeing the project becomes a huge headache. If you want to move forward on your own PM me and I'll send you a timeline checklist for bringing in the subs that a builder friend provided to me to hep with the project.

 

[SteveCh]

I know what you all mean by people not showing up to help but I have a pretty good group of friends that I'm sure will help some.

Bwahahahahaahaaaaa!

Ok, just messin' with you. Maybe you will be lucky!

 

[pmason0]

I built our second home, the only thing I contracted out was the basement excavation, concrete work, well, septic, and hooking up the main power to the panel. I did everything else, but helps I grew up in my fathers hardware store. A few times I had a friend or two come up and help, but that was about it.
I bought 40 acres, the banks would only give you a short term ~5 years, amortized over 20 if I remember right. Once I had the house completed enough I refinanced then into a traditional mortgage. That is kind of the banks thinking with short term land loans that it would be to convert.

 

[SILVERPLATE]

We completed an owner build of our home last year. It was easy process. Generally I have found you do need some substantial cash to roll along easy. Additionally I have purchased lots easy thru most any lender at least here in Texas anyway.