Has anyone had window sash rot on a new-ish window?

[guy48065]

I've been researching windows for my cottage and I've run across a bunch of complaints of clad windows rotting out because water got behind the cladding & rotted the bare pine beneath. I do take much online complaints with a big grain of salt but there really are quiet a few all saying essentially the same thing.

This is definitely the type window I want to use (the cottage is bare logs inside so I want real wood visible) but now I don't know if they will last my lifetime. Seems like nothing is built to last anymore...

 

[Angelfire]

The issue isn't the window, it's how it was installed. Any wood will rot at some point, the key is to keep the water out to begin with.

I'm in the middle of an addition on my home and discovered at every window opening where I'm demo'ing, termite damage. Looking closer, it was due to poor flashing of the opening when the home was constructed. I'm convinced that I have this same problem at all the other window openings as well.

Flash the windows properly and there shouldn't be anything to worry about. I'm using the Grace Vycor Plus membrane and Tyvek Flashing membrane (it's stretchy and turns corners better than the vycor). I'm taking my time and am convinced there will be no water getting into the walls or under the sill. As added protection, you can increase your rough opening for the window a bit and put an angled piece of cedar there for the window to sit on. I didn't plan for this ahead of time so I'm just trying to shim the windows up off the framing as much as possible.

Oh, and I'm using wood/clad double hungs too!
Cheers,
cc

edit: Sorry, my bad. I was thinking you were concerned with the sill rotting out. I haven't seen any issues with the wood behind the cladding rotting out. I live however in a desert climate so YMMV. I would think that purchasing a quality window would alleviate the concern. I'll have to look mine over a bit closer as I don't think there is any way for water to even get past the cladding but I'll look.

 

[nutjob]

Good article in the latest issue of Journal of Light Constuction on flashing window openings.

Keep the water out and when it gets in give it a place to drain and dry out.

Kevin

 

[Steevo]

I had two sets of french doors (Thermatrue) dry rot on the jambs due to either poor quality, poor installation, or crappy wood. I was told by a relative who worked on teh homes in this tract that all of the windows and doors, granite, fixtures, etc. used in our subdivision came from Chinese suppliers.

 

[Cobra6]

I have a friend whose clad windows rotted because the flashing was not installed properly.

Water got behind his windows and rotted them and the studs inside the wall - big mess. Every window was like this - the only windows that were okay were the ones under the porch where no water could get to the windows.

 

[Zeke]

I've been researching windows for my cottage and I've run across a bunch of complaints of clad windows rotting out because water got behind the cladding & rotted the bare pine beneath. I do take much online complaints with a big grain of salt but there really are quiet a few all saying essentially the same thing.

This is definitely the type window I want to use (the cottage is bare logs inside so I want real wood visible) but now I don't know if they will last my lifetime. Seems like nothing is built to last anymore...

Did you mean behind the cladding on the sash literally? That's the way I read it even though no one else did. If so, I have some insight. I installed windows for 25 years and have "grown" with the improvements on the products.

You don't say where you are and this is important for questions like this. If you can get Milgard, they make a fiberglass window with a real wood wrap inside. It's a damn good window, but not cheap.

Not all manufacturers are equal, of course.

 

[N-10Z]

If your window stays dry, it will last indefintely. The key is to flash it correctly before it is installed. Tons of info available, just search. Grace Vycor is a good choice, but every layer or step needs the proper technique.
Copper sill pans are an optional step that further helps prevent water intrusion. The pans go in after the flexible membrane (Grace Vycor), and before the window.

 

[guy48065]

Did you mean behind the cladding on the sash literally? That's the way I read it even though no one else did. If so, I have some insight. I installed windows for 25 years and have "grown" with the improvements on the products.

You don't say where you are and this is important for questions like this. If you can get Milgard, they make a fiberglass window with a real wood wrap inside. It's a damn good window, but not cheap.

Not all manufacturers are equal, of course.

Yes--I was referring to rotting between the cladding & the wood of the sash (or frame unit) and not between the window & framing.

I'll try to find Milgard & check them out.

 

[Zeke]

Yes--I was referring to rotting between the cladding & the wood of the sash (or frame unit) and not between the window & framing.

I'll try to find Milgard & check them out.

"Sash" is the part that holds the glass. It can move or be stationary, but has nothing to do with the other components like the sill, jambs or any mounting fins. So if you want to know about water intrusion on the jambs or sill, ask using the correct terms. Any of it can rot, but water intrusion into the frame consisting of the sash is unlikely. Rotting near the jamb intersection to the sill can be a problem if debris is allowed to collect in the corners or if the window unit is constantly bombarded with water as from an errant sprinkler.

As others have mentioned, if the window is not installed correctly with proper flashing, water can get to the concealed sides of the out frame and work it's way inward.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I read your OP as Zeke did-
And I know what the problem is. The seal between the glass and the cladding fails. Sure, you never have to paint the sash frame, but there's still maintenance involved.
If you can "read" a cross-section plan of a clad window, you'll see how after the seal fails why the wood frame rots. Most manufacturers will warranty that seal for 10yrs- but it's very limited in scope.
http://www.pellaadm.com/userdocs/documents/CM_PLXSEC.pdf

 

[mikester]

I had 3 Andersen sashes fail on the south side of my house. They were a year and a half past the warranty. They were the bottom sashes, 2 out of three on a triple and 1 on a double. I made the HUGE mistake of replacing the both whole units. There was nothing wrong with the frame on either set but I thought it was the right way to fix it. It just caused so much more work in the end. The siding had to be all pulled off and reinstalled, the trim had to be all replaced. New extension jambs. What a pain in the ***. One of the new windows had a faulty piece of weather stripping. The lumber yard had a guy come over with a replacement sash. It took the guy five minutes to do the job. If I only knew !!!
If the sash is the problem its much easier to just put another one in. Theyre a little more expensive to buy then getting a whole window though. It almost pays to buy a complete new window and use just the sashes.

 

[ebasista]

I'm in the unfortunate situation of having a ton of sash rot. The exterior of the window sashes were aluminum with wood behind it. The brand was Century Windows about 15 years old at this point. The frames are in perfect condition, however the aluminum separated a bit from the wood on the sash (actual window panels) and water did its thing.

Now that they are owned by Jeld-Wen, Jeld-Wen is offering discounted replacement sashes......not sure if i'm going to bite and go with new sashes and hope they are made better or get new windows.

 

[guy48065]

Jeld-Wen seems to lead the pack in complaints, from what I've read, but the company looks to be in some financial trouble and are laying off. Many of the complaints are from disgruntled employees saying the QC there is non-existent.

There are many complaints affecting many brands so overall it seems to be a design issue.

One brochure I was looking at bragged about how much beautiful clear pine was used in their sash while "the competition" only had a thin veneer of wood on the inside. If water can get behind the cladding & rot that wood then maybe the better window uses solid vinyl or fiberglass with a "thin veneer" of wood on the inside.

 

[djkeev]

Not to brand bash but give us a manufacturer.
I worked for Pella for years, quality window but the was a minor amount of rot inside the aluminum.
Anderson cladding is the frame and sill only on the double hungs. Casements have a clad "sash", The double hung sash was covered with a high quality paint job. I've found Anderson cladding to decay and become brittle as old pastic does, it can crack and leak.

There is no perfect bullet, find what works well in your area. Shore areas require stainless steel operating hardware to operate for the long term.

Dave

 

[kartracer23]

My mom & I live in the same area. She had her 100 year old wood windows replaced with clad Pellas about 20 years ago. The ones on the lower level are all failing. She just replaced one bank on a side porch to the tune of $8,000 (over $40,000 in new windows 20 years ago).

In my 110 year old house, I have wood windows and wood storms. Original to the house. Had a few that I've had to reglue, but other than that they're perfect. Paint 'em every 10 years and you're good to go.

Someday people will learn that wood windows are far superior in longevity than anything else.