Has anyone used these boxes for exposed work?

[Jamie V]

I'm getting setup to start piping my 24x40 pole barn with exposed conduit. I've been looking at different boxes to see what I want to use and I really like the 4" boxes that are 2-1/8" deep. Most I've found are all welded corners, but I like the look of the drawn side type.

While looking I found this company Garvin industries that makes them. After looking I'm not sure of what size pipe I'm running to and from each place. Then I saw these boxes with no knockouts at all.

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...-junction-boxes/blank-customizable/52171-blnk

I was thinking these would look real nice when I'm all done with none of the other knockouts being visible. Have any of you guys used them or what are your thoughts?

 

[Beemer533]

They do look nice, but man that seems like it would be a giant pain to have to knock out every single hole...

And the price is pretty stiff too. If they really sell for $5 each, that is a lot unless you can get a significant bulk discount. I would just go with regular 1/2 & 3/4" KO boxes personally..

I agree the stamped boxes look better than the welded ones for sure..

 

[dogdog]

Nice, very userful for other porjects as well, just refuse to paid for shipping that is more than the box it self....... if they sell at my local store that would be nice.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I like drawn steel boxes, but the major companies such as Raco and Steel City quit making deep drawn steel 4x4 boxes about 2010. I have searched high and low for them to no avail.

This box

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele.../4-square-junction-boxes/2-1-8-deep/52171-sdr

Provides you with more options, having dual knockouts.

May look into buying some for spares.

I did find that drawn steel gang boxes such as the 5 position ones I used are more prone to being warped than welded steel ones.

Charles

 

[ford33]

It would be time consuming to add holes to each box. What would be the benefit of these over a standard box?

 

[Jamie V]

Here is my garage. I'm trying to make it as nice as possible so I thought not seeing those other non used knockouts would be nice and clean looking.

Also in some areas in planning on some 1" pipe so you would need different boxes for that. I'd like to keep all the pipe going in and out of the center of the side of the boxes.

 

[Jamie V]

I was thinking if I set up a jig in my drillpress it wouldn't be that hard to drill them all out.

 

[AlwaysFixingSomething]

If you are concerned with looks use metal wiremold. Will cost you more but will look much better then conduit in that finished garage.

 

[Jamie V]

Can you do 230v circuits in wiremold? I need a 30 amp circuit for my compressor, a 30 amp for my ac condenser, a 20 amp for my exhaust fan and a 80 amp for my tig welder.

Can I do my lighting circuits with wiremold too? I'll need 3 switches going up to 16 8' fixtures and 2 4' fixtures with a 4th switch going to a ceiling fan.

And what do you do where you need to come off the wall to an item? I have a heater I need to mount a switch on.

I've never used wiremold?

 

[AlwaysFixingSomething]

Can you do 230v circuits in wiremold? I need a 30 amp circuit for my compressor, a 30 amp for my ac condenser, a 20 amp for my exhaust fan and a 80 amp for my tig welder.

Can I do my lighting circuits with wiremold too? I'll need 3 switches going up to 16 8' fixtures and 2 4' fixtures with a 4th switch going to a ceiling fan.

And what do you do where you need to come off the wall to an item? I have a heater I need to mount a switch on.

I've never used wiremold?

The only available wiremold in HD or lowes is the 500 or 700 series which i am familiar with. 700 series will give you the most capacity the 20 amp and 30 amp circuit won't be a problem in one piece of 700. You need to read the wire fill tables they have. I believe it's 4 #10s or 7 #12s or 10 #14's will fit in a 700 series wiremold. It's like $10 for a 10 foot piece and the boxes are about $7 each.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/c8/c8a9e688-5113-414a-a7d8-91128580295b.pdf

You might have to go with the 3000 series for all the larger conductors. This stuff aint cheap but if you are going for looks it will look better then conduit for sure. They offer a lot of options in the catalog but you have to order the stuff you can't just go to HD

 

[AlwaysFixingSomething]

Can you do 230v circuits in wiremold? I need a 30 amp circuit for my compressor, a 30 amp for my ac condenser, a 20 amp for my exhaust fan and a 80 amp for my tig welder.

Can I do my lighting circuits with wiremold too? I'll need 3 switches going up to 16 8' fixtures and 2 4' fixtures with a 4th switch going to a ceiling fan.

And what do you do where you need to come off the wall to an item? I have a heater I need to mount a switch on.

I've never used wiremold?

You attach a whip of MC cable to the end of the wiremold.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Neat idea to be able to take a drill press or mill and punch clean holes only where they need to be, but............ then you decide to add to the circuit later, oops, ripping it all apart and having to punch a new hole. Every box, every install is somewhat different. what you did in the corner, won't work ten feet away on the wall. Suddenly you find yourself drilling or milling more than getting stuff installed, and when you are done........ you are never done, but I like the idea of the looks, but not of the potential problems it will cause.

 

[Jamie V]

I can see your point about adding something later to the boxes. I think I will still give them a go though.

 

[tfi racing]

I've never used wiremold?

You're lucky then.Stay away from it unless you enjoy cruel and unusual punishment.Its expensive,a real PITA to work with and typically looks like ****.

 

[Jamie V]

I actually like the look of exposed mechanical items as long as they are done in the night neat way.

 

[Leaky88]

Concur with Jamie. As for appearance, my only concern would be ensuring all is level,straight and within Code. If the occassion arose, I would want a professional electrician to say: "This is a neat job". I have run a lot of power and those expensive boxes with no knock-outs would be very time-consuming. I like things neat and orderly, but you can attain same appearance if take time and bend off-sets correctly. I would be inclined to use the money for small gauge wire that would support future upgrades. It would be a real pain marking each hole, cutting it, refitting and as another member said: "What if you want to add something latter". Short of pulling everything back you could buy a Greenlee knock-out die. But even that would not be a smooth job.
Leaky

 

[3rdgen]

If you are going to use the boxes without kos then i would look into a set of these. We use them pretty much every day at work and with a steady pressure and some cutting oil last along time.

http://www.greenlee.com/products/CUTTER-KIT%40c-HOLE%40dCARBIDE.html?product_id=15432

 

[DC73]

If you are going to use the boxes without kos then i would look into a set of these. We use them pretty much every day at work and with a steady pressure and some cutting oil last along time.

http://www.greenlee.com/products/CUTTER-KIT%40c-HOLE%40dCARBIDE.html?product_id=15432

Neat product. I have no real need for these but now I want a set for my shop. Yep, I'm a tool junkie.

But, I would think for the OP's one time project, a good step drill bit would make quick work of making the holes.

DC

 

[Jamie V]

So I'm set on the 4" boxes that are 2-1/8" deep and drawn corners. Only thing I'm not sure on is if I go with knock outs or not.

Here is part of my reasoning. I plan on using some 1" pipe from box to box and they don't have knockouts with 1" in the center of the sides of the box. I'd like to have the boxes centered with the pipe.

 

[justsam]

You mention 1" "pipe". I assume you are going to use electrical conduit. For the straight runs you could use rigid if you want a more "industrial" look, the rest with EMT or "thin wall".

I am not a fan of the universal boxes with all the pre-punch knockouts, for exposed work. Always looks like something "yankee universal" from Pep Boys, but I understand that for a professional they could never take the time to do what you are proposing, unless it was a time and material job with high cost expectations.

 

[skulldrinker]

Well why not go all out and get a set of knock out punches. I had a Greenlee hyd set and a manual set. Got rid of the hyd set because I would never make use of it. The manual set I use occasionally and is handy to have around. Like when I needed the hole in a stainless steel sink for the sprayer hose.

 

[3rdgen]

They do make 4x4 boxes with a single 1'' hole in the middle we use them all the time for data and communications. Its a iberville CI52171-1 not sure how hard it is to get in the states but I know the wholesalers in Canada carry them.

 

[Jamie V]

Is it a 2-1/8" deep box with drawn corners?

 

[3rdgen]

i don't think they are drawn corners to be honest. But it is 2 1/8 deep

 

[Durasmack]

You're lucky then.Stay away from it unless you enjoy cruel and unusual punishment.Its expensive,a real PITA to work with and typically looks like ****.

Can you elaborate on why no to wiremold?
I'm leaning toward installing this in my workshop area? Seems to be pretty flexible for moving thins around, no?

 

[Beemer533]

If you are going to use the boxes without kos then i would look into a set of these. We use them pretty much every day at work and with a steady pressure and some cutting oil last along time.

http://www.greenlee.com/products/CUTTER-KIT%40c-HOLE%40dCARBIDE.html?product_id=15432

Yeah, those cutters are very good... We work with a lot of stainless disconnects and enclosures and they work very well.

We use this kit; the quick change makes it very convenient.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HWB5OA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

So I'm set on the 4" boxes that are 2-1/8" deep and drawn corners. Only thing I'm not sure on is if I go with knock outs or not.

Here is part of my reasoning. I plan on using some 1" pipe from box to box and they don't have knockouts with 1" in the center of the sides of the box. I'd like to have the boxes centered with the pipe.

You could just open up the 1/2 or 3/4" KO to 1" with an appropriately sized step or uni-bit...

 

[Jamie V]

i don't think they are drawn corners to be honest. But it is 2 1/8 deep

The drawn corners are what I'm using no question. It's like night and day between the two in appearance.

 

[Jamie V]

You could just open up the 1/2 or 3/4" KO to 1" with an appropriately sized step or uni-bit...

If I just open up the three-quarter inch holes in this box here, will the whole be too close to the back of the box? And will it put the 1 inch EMT at the right distance off-the-wall?

 

[Beemer533]

Assuming the ko are drilled out evenly with the step bit, or centered with a hole saw, it should be fine.

IIRC, a 1" ko is 1.3" OD.

This post edited by the NSA

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I like drawn steel boxes, but the major companies such as Raco and Steel City quit making deep drawn steel 4x4 boxes about 2010. I have searched high and low for them to no avail.

This box

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele.../4-square-junction-boxes/2-1-8-deep/52171-sdr

Provides you with more options, having dual knockouts.

May look into buying some for spares.

I did find that drawn steel gang boxes such as the 5 position ones I used are more prone to being warped than welded steel ones.

Charles

Homie Depot has 'em. About $4.00 and change...

Tommy

 

[Jamie V]

I've looked at HD but the only 2-1/8" deep ones I can find there are for switches.

http://thd.co/1ChxfRZ

 

[Jamie V]

Assuming the ko are drilled out evenly with the step bit, or centered with a hole saw, it should be fine.

IIRC, a 1" ko is 1.3" OD.

This post edited by the NSA

That's not right. I pulled the autocad file on the boxes with knock outs and the 3/4" knock out is about 0.30" from the back of the box to the edge of the hole. The 1" knock out is further away from the wall at about 0.40".

So if you drilled that 3/4" knock out from 1-3/32" to 1-3/8" for the 1" EMT the edge of the hole for the 1" would be about 0.16" which is way closer to the wall then a box that has the 1" knock outs.

 

[Beemer533]

Yeah, I think I had the image of a 1.5" box which has the ko centered.. I just looked at one of my 2 1/8 boxes (welded) and the box just gets deeper, but the ko stay in the same location.. Makes sense, just me not double checking before posting..

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I've looked at HD but the only 2-1/8" deep ones I can find there are for switches.

http://thd.co/1ChxfRZ

Indeed, switch box or handy box is a different animal than a 4x4 box. I've used a number of the welded steel boxes and find them OK. They actually have a tiny bit more cubic volume in them and the knockouts are more versatile, being a knockout within a knockout in most cases.

I'm not about to order them and pay a bunch of shipping just to have some on hand, as 99% of my wiring in the shop is long ago finished.

Charles

 

[LXCam]

Wow those boxes are a lot of work. Agreed minus the KO's they look cleaner but what I think is going to make you crazy since your THAT ocd is fitment of the device plates. The corners and flange flushness (ohhh, a don king moment) will look like hell. My advice would be to install weather proof boxes with steel compression connectors and stainless device plates, it would be very clean. As for wiremold, ya it's a bit of a pain to deal with and install cleanly, but if you do it right is a VERY clean installation. Also look for other brands offerings such as Panduit. There's one other manufacturer that I can't remember the name right now, but if I think of it I'll pop back in.

 

[Jamie V]

I don't care for wiremold at all.

They have boxes with 1" and 3/4" knockouts but none are centered. I might look into a set of knockouts.

 

[kaffine]

Wow those boxes are a lot of work. Agreed minus the KO's they look cleaner but what I think is going to make you crazy since your THAT ocd is fitment of the device plates. The corners and flange flushness (ohhh, a don king moment) will look like hell. My advice would be to install weather proof boxes with steel compression connectors and stainless device plates, it would be very clean. As for wiremold, ya it's a bit of a pain to deal with and install cleanly, but if you do it right is a VERY clean installation. Also look for other brands offerings such as Panduit. There's one other manufacturer that I can't remember the name right now, but if I think of it I'll pop back in.

I will second the weather tight boxes. They are going to be device boxes at least I haven't seen a 4 square weather tight box. You can get them with 1 inch openings. It would be much easier than having to drill or punch out openings in a bunch of boxes.

 

[Jamie V]

Those boxes are 2-3 times the cost of these. You guys sure are scared to drill holes. For the cost of those I could probably have the blank boxes pre punched where I want the holes.

"Blank, 2-1/8" deep, 4" square boxes are tamper and vandal proof boxes they are less all holes and knockouts. Garvin Industries can customize a solution by add only the knockouts you need."

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Those boxes are 2-3 times the cost of these. You guys sure are scared to drill holes. For the cost of those I could probably have the blank boxes pre punched where I want the holes.

"Blank, 2-1/8" deep, 4" square boxes are tamper and vandal proof boxes they are less all holes and knockouts. Garvin Industries can customize a solution by add only the knockouts you need."

With the right equipment it probably is easy to punch those holes, and I'll bet Garvin charges a premium to do it. However ask them, I'd be curious to see what they actually charge.

Having conduit intersect the middle of the box actually can work against you sometimes as it means more bending of wires in the box most of the time.

 

[LXCam]

Those boxes are 2-3 times the cost of these. You guys sure are scared to drill holes. For the cost of those I could probably have the blank boxes pre punched where I want the holes.

"Blank, 2-1/8" deep, 4" square boxes are tamper and vandal proof boxes they are less all holes and knockouts. Garvin Industries can customize a solution by add only the knockouts you need."

What is, a weather tight box?. You guys need to stop shopping at HD. There are many wholesalers that will sell to the public, you just need to ask. As for knocking out holes, I got it all and my suggestion for the OP would be to get a unibit with the steps set up for conduit sizes. Chuck it up in a drill press at low speed and it'll cut like butta