Hazet vs Koken ratchets

[Pessimus]

Hello everyone,

I'm starting to replace my old and rusty tools and have decided to get something that will hopefully last me a lifetime. The first thing would be a ratchet set and I'm a bit stuck between the Hazet and Koken after doing some research. I'm based in Germany so the Hazet 953HP set seems like a good deal, but the old non-Zeal Koken ratchets look really good with their knurled metal handles.
Anyone have experience with both of them? How do they compare?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

 

[Mr_B]

Being you in Germany then likes of Hazet or Stahlwille going be the value route .
Koken ratchets are amazingly low back drag but you ideally want the 36 or 72 tooth zeal variants over the 24 tooth versions .
I always found Hazet to be bit overrated but at domestic german pricing that opinion likely change .
Kpken probably be my preference but it be zeal range ratchets, Koken roto head ratchets are pretty nice too .

 

[tamaraw]

Hello everyone,

I'm starting to replace my old and rusty tools and have decided to get something that will hopefully last me a lifetime. The first thing would be a ratchet set and I'm a bit stuck between the Hazet and Koken after doing some research. I'm based in Germany so the Hazet 953HP set seems like a good deal, but the old non-Zeal Koken ratchets look really good with their knurled metal handles.
Anyone have experience with both of them? How do they compare?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

Apples and oranges.

The Hazet HP are a modern 90 tooth design with multi-tooth engagement and ridiculously high torque rating.

The pear head non-zeal Ko-ken stuff are 20/24/30 tooth designs copied from 70+ year old Proto.

Not saying that the Ko-ken ratchets are bad, just that it's a hard comparison.

 

[toddmorr]

Those 24 tooth koken with the heavy knurling are really different ratchets. I like the feel a lot, even less backdrag than the zeal, but the tooth count some times gets me. They are very strong, solid feeling ratchets, definitely worth the low asking price

 

[Pessimus]

Thanks,
How's the durability on both of them?
I'm worried about the rubber on the Hazet handle degrading over time.

 

[Pessimus]

Also, I can get the Hazet 916hp at a lower price than the Koken 4750N, so is the Koken really worth the premium?

 

[drtyler]

Also, I can get the Hazet 916hp at a lower price than the Koken 4750N, so is the Koken really worth the premium?

Nope

The 916HP is ok, but its a heavy ratchet and has a good bit of back drag. If you get a good deal, it's a good one to own. If you want a good lighter duty 1/2" drive ratchet, the Facom S.161B and its twin USAG are pretty nice. Very light.

The Koken will not have as much backdrag as the Hazet, although I'm uncertain as to its weight.

I have had no issues with any of the rubber grips on my Hazet ratchets. I think you'll be ok there.

 

[Dave455]

When you say a “Ratchet Set” I assume you mean a set with a ratchet, extensions and socket‘s, rather than say a set of 3 ratchet’s?

I have both Hazet and KoKen, both are superb quality, and both are superb value.

KoKen are very much in the American style, with a polished finish. The regular line, rather than the Z Series / Zeal is a better choice for most purposes, and the all metal handles are very durable. You also have a choice of knurled, smooth, or comfort grip.

Hazet are very “European” with their predominantly matte finish. It’s less flashy than KoKen, but doesn’t collect scratches. I’ve been hearing mixed things about the new “HP” ratchet. Most of mine are the older style coarse tooth, but they’re still smooth to use, and the grips are relatively hard, so I like them.

The only factor that would sway me toward the Hazet is that I know that set is generally on promotion from Hazet. I bought a very similar set a few years ago because the price was so good.

Bear in mind though, that the sockets in that set go up to 27mm, and you’re not shifting a 27mm nut with a short handle ratchet!

 

[Andres26tnt]

I prefer the koken Z seal. Much Slimer, and the lightest back drag of any ratchet. Comes in handy sometimes.

 

[tamaraw]

If the Hazet HP ratchets are cheaper, that's a much better deal. We have to import both brands in the US and a 916HP would be about 1/3 more than a 4750N.

Lower tooth count ratchets are definitely cool and can feel nice (I love my Cornwell 30 tooth) but there are situations where that can be a limitation or make jobs more of a pain. If this will be your main/only ratchet, I would recommend a higher tooth count like 60+.

For durability, I think the Hazet should be ok. Lots of use on the 8816HP being rebuilt/cleaned in this video but the handle still looks alright:

If you really want a metal handle, Stahlwille offers a few 80 tooth models, might be a decent price in Germany.

 

[LogiLuddite]

Have had both. The older Kokens with knurled handles are amazing if you can live with the lower 24t. Hazets are smooth, but higher backdrag. Question can only be answered with what you value: local support & price vs backdrag & slimness

 

[F-22]

First question should be what you need it for. Home use? For that, durability of such top end ratchets really isn't a concern. They might wear out in a business setting where you use it 8 hours every day, and even then I doubt one will last significantly longer (and I think you can get rebuild kits for both if it comes to that).

For professional use I'd prefer the plastic handle. For home use, the metal one is typically more beautiful to me.

Another one worth considering are the Bahco 80 tooth models such as the Bahco 8150. Plenty of good points, most notably the mechanism is identical to the one Snap On uses in their Dual 80 ratchets. Bahco is owned by Snap On and uses the identical plans. High tooth count, low backdrag, high strength. Another point is spare parts - snap on dual 80 mechanism fits inside the Bahco (and bahco sells replacements too). If you manage to break it, even decades from now I'm sure you'll be able to source snap on dual 80 replacement parts, even if Bahco no longer exists by then. Also, the Bahco handle is well designed.

Downside is they only have a plastic grip option. And it's probably made in China or Taiwan.

 

[dukefx]

If you need a ratchet go American or Japanese. This comes from a guy who prefers European engineering and designs, but not in this case. The Hazets are absolutely not worth the price, especially with all those mixed reviews. The Ko-Ken Z series are one of the best and I'd highly recommend those over the non-Z. Another good recommendation if you are willing to go for other brands: Bahco has one that is basically a Snap On with a different handle for a fraction of the price.

 

[The_Inspector]

Those 24 tooth koken with the heavy knurling are really different ratchets. I like the feel a lot, even less backdrag than the zeal, but the tooth count some times gets me. They are very strong, solid feeling ratchets, definitely worth the low asking price

I saw the comparison on Project farm (You Tube) and I was surprised how quickly the Ko-Ken snapped compared to Snap-on and Hazet (1st and 2nd in the test)

 

[tamaraw]

I saw the comparison on Project farm (You Tube) and I was surprised how quickly the Ko-Ken snapped compared to Snap-on and Hazet (1st and 2nd in the test)

I'm not finding a video where they test Ko-ken but if you are still talking about the non-zeal pear heads, then that is to be expected. After all, it is the 70+ year old Proto design with low tooth engagement vs modern computer-aided designs with multi-tooth engagement.

 

[The_Inspector]

I'm not finding a video where they test Ko-ken but if you are still talking about the non-zeal pear heads, then that is to be expected. After all, it is the 70+ year old Proto design with low tooth engagement vs modern computer-aided designs with multi-tooth engagement.

 

[Zewnten]

I saw the comparison on Project farm (You Tube) and I was surprised how quickly the Ko-Ken snapped compared to Snap-on and Hazet (1st and 2nd in the test)

They all sheared at the anvil well above required torques.

I'm not finding a video where they test Ko-ken but if you are still talking about the non-zeal pear heads, then that is to be expected. After all, it is the 70+ year old Proto design with low tooth engagement vs modern computer-aided designs with multi-tooth engagement.

It's in the second video I think.

 

[toddmorr]

he never tested the 24 tooth Koken we're talking about. Having said that, it might well test poorly on the slop test, with so few teeth, but not sure. I really like the feel of it, but yeah in close quarters the low tooth count is an issue.

https://palmac.net/koken-3749n-3-8-sq-drive-reversible-ratchet/

 

[CGarage]

I have both.
I don’t know what the tooth count of my Koken is, but I believe it is 30 or 36 teeth.

I prefer the Koken as a ratchet but the finer tooth count of the Hazet is more useful as pointed out above.

I like Hazet but their ratchets have never “wowed me” with their “innovation” (or lack thereof).

The Japanese ratchets are built more beautifully in my opinion.

Would also recommend you look at Facom / USAG.

For less money, I think you get better performance in a smaller form factor.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I have both.
I don’t know what the tooth count of my Koken is, but I believe it is 30 or 36 teeth.

I prefer the Koken as a ratchet but the finer tooth count of the Hazet is more useful as pointed out above.

I like Hazet but their ratchets have never “wowed me” with their “innovation” (or lack thereof).

The Japanese ratchets are built more beautifully in my opinion.

Would also recommend you look at Facom / USAG.

For less money, I think you get better performance in a smaller form factor.

I'd totally agree. I have both the 72-tooth Koken and the Hazet HiPer ratchets and overall the Koken has way, way less back drag and a slimmer (albeit not by much) head than the Hazet. Socket retention and play are also way better on the Koken. Oddly enough, I reach for and use the Hazet ratchets a lot more. I really like the handle design and the feel of the ratchet in hand. I don't know about the lower tooth count Hazet stuff though.

 

[CGarage]

I'd totally agree. I have both the 72-tooth Koken and the Hazet HiPer ratchets and overall the Koken has way, way less back drag and a slimmer (albeit not by much) head than the Hazet. Socket retention and play are also way better on the Koken. Oddly enough, I reach for and use the Hazet ratchets a lot more. I really like the handle design and the feel of the ratchet in hand. I don't know about the lower tooth count Hazet stuff though.

I do not have any of the newer 72 tooth count Koken ratchets yet.

I look at ratchets like mouse-traps. I want to collect every one of the good designs to see what is best.

The Koken handle is a little short for my hands but it is an amazing ratchet and built beautifully.

The German Hazet is all business and no frills.

I think Facom and USAG are overlooked muchly. I never thought I would like the sealed head Facom/USAG ratchets but the slimness and form factor of the ratchet head and the excellent 72-tooth mechanism are compelling arguments of a superior design (based on smaller size and shape) to the Hazet and Koken.
I have seen these ratchets on sale for under $60 at times, too.

I wish the Koken handle was longer and I wish the Hazet was less business. It isn’t beautiful, but it works. The Japanese ratchets feel like art. The human engineering built into the Facom/USAG ratchets surpasses that of the German and Japanese offerings.

Happy to have all of them. I mostly pick which ratchet I use based on application and torque requirements. I use a locking flex head Gearwrench most of the time. I think I would use my Kokens before my Hazets in most cases. Stahlwille would be in third place, behind Koken and Hazet.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I do not have any of the newer 72 tooth count Koken ratchets yet.

I look at ratchets like mouse-traps. I want to collect every one of the good designs to see what is best.

The Koken handle is a little short for my hands but it is an amazing ratchet and built beautifully.

The German Hazet is all business and no frills.

I think Facom and USAG are overlooked muchly. I never thought I would like the sealed head Facom/USAG ratchets but the slimness and form factor of the ratchet head and the excellent 72-tooth mechanism are compelling arguments of a superior design (based on smaller size and shape) to the Hazet and Koken.
I have seen these ratchets on sale for under $60 at times, too.

I wish the Koken handle was longer and I wish the Hazet was less business. It isn’t beautiful, but it works. The Japanese ratchets feel like art. The human engineering built into the Facom/USAG ratchets surpasses that of the German and Japanese offerings.

Happy to have all of them. I mostly pick which ratchet I use based on application and torque requirements. I use a locking flex head Gearwrench most of the time. I think I would use my Kokens before my Hazets in most cases. Stahlwille would be in third place, behind Koken and Hazet.

Are you referring to these Facom ratchets? If so, I will have to give them a try. I’ve grown to really like their ratcheting and combination wrenches. I also really like my Facom screwdrivers. It’s just a pain to purchase Facom/USAG without going through a global seller.

 

[CGarage]

Are you referring to these Facom ratchets? If so, I will have to give them a try. I’ve grown to really like their ratcheting and combination wrenches. I also really like my Facom screwdrivers. It’s just a pain to purchase Facom/USAG without going through a global seller.

Yes, these. I didn’t think I would like it, but I do. Easy to clean as well.
Available from Ultimate Garage, Amazon, and Mister Worker.

 

[F-22]

I saw the comparison on Project farm (You Tube) and I was surprised how quickly the Ko-Ken snapped compared to Snap-on and Hazet (1st and 2nd in the test)

Quickly? It sheared off at 350Nm. For a 3/8" ratchet...
Never in my life have I used a 3/8" to tighten above ~70Nm. You'd probably struggle to even find a 3/8" torque wrench that goes over ~150Nm.

You can overtighten car lug nuts 3 times with the Koken and still not reach 350Nm.

I kind of wish Projectfarm didn't make such tests, or presented the data in that way. Maybe just tell on which the mechanism failed and on which the anvil got sheared off. Comparing based on max failure torque is a small part of what is important.

IMO would be a lot more interesting to hook up the ratchet to some electric motor and let it spin the mechanism in each way for 24 hours, then compare the wear.

 

[AEAdam]

Apologies in advance: I don't have either of these. Feel free to skip my opinion.

On paper, these ratchets both look like beautifully made versions of outdated designs. Can't think of any reason why I'd give this kind of money for this technology.

For auto repair, I'd recommend a long flex head soft grip LIKE the Snap On FHLF80. That's a great ratchet. These std size ratchets compared above aren't long enough to benefit from fine teeth or high strength. Get the cheapest model you can in this size. This is why so many Americans can defend their love of the crappy plastic HF ratchet. In that length, you really don't need much to be useful. Its good enough.

Also outdated is the European 1/4 and 1/2" drive model. No way I'd buy a set that skips 3/8" drive. 3/8" is now strong enough. You don't need the clumsy 1/2" drive tools for most jobs. When you NEED 1/2", I vote Snap On SHLF80A (or a suitable substitute) and a battery impact and all impact sockets.

I'd buy Hazet or Koken sockets in a heart beat. Beautifully made tools. I love Hazet's style, sets, tool box inserts. Why don't more US manufacturers catch on to that? The packaging is the storage solution. So great. I recall recommending Hazet's design ethos to both the new reformed SK and Tekton (which did some of this). Embrace the colors, the sets, the packaging. Sell to enthusiasts. You don't need to be stronger to sell. Be cooler looking. (just my 2 cents)

Hazet/Stahlwile/Gedore all follow the DIN for wrenches are are subsequently short (outdated). Snap On normal length wrenches are much longer than the DIN spec Gedore make nice extra long pattern wrenches. I'd look there for sure. But the extra long Gedore are only about as long as Snap On's long pattern (doesn't matter).

Long tools are relatively new. In the old days, manufacturers didn't make long because guys could break them. Our materials and processing, machining, forging, broaching are all better now. Germans, like other European manufacturers have stuck to traditional and worked hard to perfect the old designs. They also aren't necessarily big enough to innovate and test. Americans lose sight of the shear size of Snap On. It's an enormous global tool manufacturer with a large engineering and R&D dept in Kenosha. Not fair to compare much smaller companies like Hazet.

Koken is unique in that, being Japanese, they have a high value for perfecting (revering) the traditional (e.g their ratchets). But they are simultaneously excitingly innovative in their sockets. And they aren't a huge company so kudos for bringing real innovation and technology to market (e.g. zeal).

If I were still in Europe and looking to buy euro tools, I'd probably choose Hazet, but their long flex head ratchet is like a 30 tooth model??? What gives? 1970 was 50 years ago. Choose Snap On or Matco or anything modern. You may not feel a difference between high end sockets, but you sure will with ratchets,

 

[AEAdam]

Quickly? It sheared off at 350Nm. For a 3/8" ratchet...
Never in my life have I used a 3/8" to tighten above ~70Nm. You'd probably struggle to even find a 3/8" torque wrench that goes over ~150Nm.

You can overtighten car lug nuts 3 times with the Koken and still not reach 350Nm.

I kind of wish Projectfarm didn't make such tests, or presented the data in that way. Maybe just tell on which the mechanism failed and on which the anvil got sheared off. Comparing based on max failure torque is a small part of what is important.

IMO would be a lot more interesting to hook up the ratchet to some electric motor and let it spin the mechanism in each way for 24 hours, then compare the wear.

Thanks for posting this. 350nm is over 250ftlbs, which is about the limit for 3/8". That's roughly twice the working load you should be applying. I don't even know how a person could apply that much force to a ratchet, even a long one.

 

[Andres26tnt]

koken is my choice, you can now get them in QD form, they are so smooth, and the low backdrop is amazing. the hazet is just to me too dang bulky.

I also recommend the Facom ratchet, I own the 3/8 with QD # JL.171, excellent ratchet, with a great handle. Can be had for cheap, bought mine for 35$

the Stalwille is also a good ratchet with, a great handle and 80t.

 

[General Geoff]

Just recently picked up a Hazet 863HP 1/4" ratchet, it's OK and I'm sure extremely robust, but the backdrag is pretty high and not ideal for the kind of jobs 1/4" drive is best suited for. I'll be picking up a Koken flex-head once DRPD gets them back in stock.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Just recently picked up a Hazet 863HP 1/4" ratchet, it's OK and I'm sure extremely robust, but the backdrag is pretty high and not ideal for the kind of jobs 1/4" drive is best suited for. I'll be picking up a Koken flex-head once DRPD gets them back in stock.

It is a night-and-day difference and the Hazet will never compete with the backdrag of the Koken. If that is your biggest priority, you definitely will love the Koken when you get it. I was impressed with the Koken for sure, buttery smooth. I don't know why though, and it certainly seems like I am in the minority here, I just really like the Hazet. Don't ask me why because I know it isn't the best 1/4" ratchet, but damn I love using it.