HD40 vs ghostshield densifier & 8505

[NebrTd]

I am looking at treating my concrete (~2600 sq ft )in the next couple weeks. It is a smooth power troweled surface. Shop will be used for automotive work as well as fabrication and welding. I think a densifier and sealer fits the bill for my surface.

I am leaning toward the HD40 if I can find a burnisher to rent. I wouldn't mind a little shine. If I understand correctly the HD40 is a densifier and sealer in one, while the ghostshield would require a densifier then the 8505 sealer.

The temperatures in the next couple weeks are to be in the upper 90s. Is that of any concern other than it not being any fun to be out there?

Is there a big difference in the end result between these or is it just going to come down to preference?
Any long term reports on either products performance?

 

[RPH]

Ghostshield 8505 is the only one DOT approved for bus garages. That was the deciding factor in my use of it. If it can survive that environment it surely will survive mine. I have been impressed with its performance. I don't see warm weather as a problem with 8505 as it's water based. It will be worse on you because of the heat. I did mine in the fall and it took no time to spray it but rolling to keep it from pooling took the time. It takes time for it to penetrate the concrete. And yes mine is a working farm shop with 2600 square feet of space.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I am looking at treating my concrete (~2600 sq ft )in the next couple weeks. It is a smooth power troweled surface. Shop will be used for automotive work as well as fabrication and welding. I think a densifier and sealer fits the bill for my surface.



I am leaning toward the HD40 if I can find a burnisher to rent. I wouldn't mind a little shine. If I understand correctly the HD40 is a densifier and sealer in one, while the ghostshield would require a densifier then the 8505 sealer.



The temperatures in the next couple weeks are to be in the upper 90s. Is that of any concern other than it not being any fun to be out there?



Is there a big difference in the end result between these or is it just going to come down to preference?

Any long term reports on either products performance?

Temp is fine, but it's nicer to install in the morning before it's oppressive.




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[Garage Flooring]

I am looking at treating my concrete (~2600 sq ft )in the next couple weeks. It is a smooth power troweled surface. Shop will be used for automotive work as well as fabrication and welding. I think a densifier and sealer fits the bill for my surface.

I am leaning toward the HD40 if I can find a burnisher to rent. I wouldn't mind a little shine. If I understand correctly the HD40 is a densifier and sealer in one, while the ghostshield would require a densifier then the 8505 sealer.

The temperatures in the next couple weeks are to be in the upper 90s. Is that of any concern other than it not being any fun to be out there?

Is there a big difference in the end result between these or is it just going to come down to preference?
Any long term reports on either products performance?

This is an apples and oranges comparison. Products like HD40 or our TL40 are not true densifiers. They perform SOME of the work of a densifier, such as keeping dusting down but they do not (IMHO) create the permanent physical reaction that a densifier will create. A review of the PDS or SDS shows no chemical elements that are accepted as a true densifier.

What Scotty offers with the HD40 system that is unique and awesome is the ability to add a great shine to a power troweled floor. While we have similar products, it is his experience in the industry and application that brought that application to light -- so we have decided not to support or market it.

Ghostshield 8505 or 8510 are also not densifiers. They do not 'require' a densifier, although they did originally. We still believe using a densifier first is the best overall application. On a power troweled floor, it is highly possible a densifer was already used....

Also keep in mind that your coverage with 8505 or 8510 is going to be much higher. We have seen 300-400 Sq. Ft. per gallon per coat.

8505 and 8510 are proven, long term resistant to oil stains.

 

[Firebrick43]

Ghostshield 8505 is the only one DOT approved for bus garages.

Can you provide a link to this fact? I find it very interesting that the Department of Transportation would make such approvals to a product that is in no way connected to public safety on the nations roads.

 

[NebrTd]

The terminology used to market the two systems is very similar for them to be apples to oranges. I am sure what you said is accurate, but I guess that is why I asked. It seems that either of these products could be used in my application. The ghostshield's oil resistance is making me lean that way at this point.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

We have tested oil resistance on many of the competitive products extensively. Any of them predicated by a standalone densifier will do better then without, this includes our own product.

However they are all permeable so eventually they will all show a spot on the ground. Keep in mind this is real world testing on a garage floor and not a lab.


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[NebrTd]

We have tested oil resistance on many of the competitive products extensively. Any of them predicated by a standalone densifier will do better then without, this includes our own product.

However they are all permeable so eventually they will all show a spot on the ground. Keep in mind this is real world testing on a garage floor and not a lab.


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Do you recommend your densifier before your hd40? I didn't get that impression when reading your website.

I want the ability to clean up a mess in a reasonable amount of time to maintain a nice floor.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Do you recommend your densifier before your hd40? I didn't get that impression when reading your website.

I want the ability to clean up a mess in a reasonable amount of time to maintain a nice floor.

It would not hurt. The active ingredient in our stand-alone densifier is much more the HD40 on it's own.

Last point...The tighter the floor finishing the better the performance of these products.

 

[PurdueSD]

It would not hurt. The active ingredient in our stand-alone densifier is much more the HD40 on it's own.

Last point...The tighter the floor finishing the better the performance of these products.

Damn, I want that floor! So thats denisfier, sealer and then its burnished?

I thought i would have to go to a clear epoxy to get that kind of sheen.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Yes sir. That's HD40. The customer used our Micro-fiber applicator and hogs hair burnishing pads.


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[PurdueSD]

Sorry for the basic questions... burnishing is just like a light polish with a floor buffer? Something i could rent I assume?

Ill be sending you an email in the next week or two. Hopefully my slab is poured in 2/3 weeks and then ill be waiting a couple months so ive still got time, lol.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Burnishing is north of 900 rpms.
Buffers are 175-300 rpms.

Yes, any janitorial supply or rental house should have them. Should be 19" or 20" diameter head.


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[Radix2]

I bought a gallon of HD40 to test on a troweled floor.

I was surprised to find that it adds quite a bit of gloss even without burnishing (even diluted 50:50), at this point, my impression is that the burnishing is as much or more about bonding the film to the floor as it is about looks.

 

[Garage Flooring]

The terminology used to market the two systems is very similar for them to be apples to oranges. I am sure what you said is accurate, but I guess that is why I asked. It seems that either of these products could be used in my application. The ghostshield's oil resistance is making me lean that way at this point.

Fair enough. Marketing is marketing. But it really is apples and oranges.

To touch on what Scotty said. ABSOLUTELY agree. Either sealer is going to work better when a densifier is applied ahead of time. Scotty can speak better to the use of his product than I can. Speaking for TL40 the official definition of the product:

"one component water based ultra small particle size self-crosslinking hydrophobic organic polymer and silane/siloxane designed specifically for use in the grind and polish of concrete/cement as a surface conditioner and stain guard to be applied before the final polishing step to increase long term performance, gloss and stain resistance."

The official 8505 description and testing is long. Here is a link http://assets.contentful.com/muyees...2b68f5f4ef4defd025a558f5e34/8505_TDS_2017.pdf

What Scotty has done is perfected a method on the HD40 that allows for a glossy, stain resistant floor that looks awesome.

Ghostshield 8505 or 8510 also uses Silane and Siloxane. With the Ghostshield product, that is just part of the equation. The fluorocarbons and technology they utilize flat out makes it awesome and oils, etc. They have a version (8500) without some of that additional technology, but you will note it is not specifically suggested for oils.

There has been a lot of posts about HD40 and Ghostshield. HD40 has some clear advantages in the area of appearances. I believe GHostshield 8505 / 8510 has some clear advantages in the area of oil resistance. Bottom line is this. Two great products, two great companies and it comes down to which it going to meet your purpose better.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Just to add on here....

I really really want to make sure I am clear about this. You are dealing with two vendors with two products that have some overlap in terms of applications they will be used for. I would prefer to lose a sale than to have you think for a moment I am saying one product is better than another. They truly are very different products with different sets of strengths and an area where they overlap in the middle.

 

[Shea]

We have been getting a lot of positive feedback from some of our readers that have applied the densifier/GhostShield combination. It's a good option for those with working garages that don't want to deal with a coating. We haven't updated the article for the solvent based 8510 yet, but you can read here about how it works.

The densifier/HD40 combo is excellent for those that want to put some shine as well as protection into their power troweled or hard troweled floors. We have an article here on someone who treated their new garage to HD40. He chose not to use a densifier since the surface was power troweled, but it still came out very nice.

These products are similar in some respects, but not the same. If you are quick about cleaning up your spills, they both will perform fairly well I believe. However, the HD40 does not have the oil repelling characteristics that the fluorocarbons provide for the GhostShield product. If you aren't one to clean up small drips and spills right away, then GhostShield may be the better alternative. As Scotty said, however, neither is stain proof and if allowed to sit you will still have a faint stain left on the concrete.

 

[RPH]

Look up 8505 tech spec's. File is too large to attach but it's in there.

 

[NebrTd]

I ended up using the Legacy products. 1 coat of the HD37 densifier and 4 coats of the HD40 stainguard. I like the results so far. We will see if I made the right decision as I get to using the space.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Handsome looking space. Thanks for using our products!!

 

[PurdueSD]

Any of you guys who have used these for any length of time, have any feedback for us on how they have held up to working on em? How have they been for oil drips, does the sheen go away over time, etc...

Are they slick enough that slipping is a problem?

 

[RPH]

My 8505 has been in use in the barn now for over a year. I been rebuilding tractors in there over the summer and nothing has stained it yet. Everything spilled or dripped wipes up without a trace left.

 

[Garage Flooring]

NICE!

My 8505 has been in use in the barn now for over a year. I been rebuilding tractors in there over the summer and nothing has stained it yet. Everything spilled or dripped wipes up without a trace left.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Any of you guys who have used these for any length of time, have any feedback for us on how they have held up to working on em? How have they been for oil drips, does the sheen go away over time, etc...

Are they slick enough that slipping is a problem?

Purdue, interesting that you ask about this now...
Legacy Industrial's HD40 Concrete StainGuard is now the specified flooring treatment for all new Jiffy Lube Stores!!

 

[PurdueSD]

Thanks fellas, the $9k+ i just got quoted from an elite krete installer for clear Urethane cements my decision... hehe -cements, see what i did there...

 

[RPH]

As for being slippery, no. The concrete is the same for traction after treatment as it was before.