Head spinning on 4' fluorescents

[BurtEggley]

Used up my last 2 T8 6500K fluorescent 4' bulbs this week and went to Lowes to pick up replacements. They are now illegal here so no one sells them. Not Home Depot, not Lowes, Not Ace, not Amazon etc.. All that are sold are the proverbial 31 flavors of LEDs including pick your color, dimmable, not dimmable etc... So I decided on GE 4' direct wire 6500K LEDs where you cut the old ballast out, send it to the local landfill along with your Windows 10 computer, then rewire the fixture. Even ordered some stickers online so no idiot after we sell the home tries to stick in the wrong bulb. Then I get to the fine print in GE instructions and they want a 1 amp fuse installed on each fixture. I go to digikey and it is another $50 for fuses and fuseholders in the garage and office etc. Or I can buy the GE ones at $14 a piece X 8 fixtures. My head is now spinning. I know can use direct replacements if I have electronic ballasts, but I probably have 2 electronic ballasts and 6 transformer ones. Why are the fuses needed when the circuit is already protected by a circuit breaker? Do I need an attorney too in order to read the fine print and inform me of any other things I should know about this change in the law? Why do I need fuses in addition to the circuit breaker? I sent a sms to my electrician but my guess is he is overwhelmed by all these changes too. Don't want to have to drive out of state to buy new 4' bulbs.

 

[BurtEggley]

do I need fuses on each LED 4' fixture? If so why? Doesn't the breaker protect the house if the LED light shorts out?

 

[kbuhagiar]

I've replaced all of my old fluorescents with direct-wire (type 'B') LED tubes (over 50 of 'em) - from three different sources - and nowhere was there ever any mention of adding fuses.

Almost sounds like a random CYA clause inserted by the legal dept.

 

[micromind]

I wouldn't bother with the fuses, that requirement is nothing more than the companies way of reducing their legal liability. The fuses are not required by the engineering department but rather the legal department.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

do I need fuses on each LED 4' fixture? If so why? Doesn't the breaker protect the house if the LED light shorts out?

NO you don’t have to install a fuse on each 4’ fixture but it won’t hurt.
I have always added fuses on ALL my fixtures (personal home use) whenever I installed a "ballast fixture" so the fuse holder was already there. When I started in the trade over 50 years ago it was very common to install fuses on each ballast in a commercial use building.…….. I still remember the smell of leaking pitch and the gooey sticky feel.

 

[wssix99]

I would just drive across the boarder and buy a big box of tubes. Let this be the problem of the next person to own the house! IMO - it seems to me to be a lot easier to just change/upgrade the fixtures when this time comes.

 

[cybrdyke]

GE is not the GE that you all think it is. That company has been bought and sold and divided up a number of times.
That said, you dont need any fuses. The recommendation is there because so many people sue GE over any little thing to try to get a quick payday.
Good luck,
CD

 

[u2slow]

Conventional tubes are still available at amazon.ca

PHILIPS 32W T8 48" Cool White Fluorescent Bulbs, 10-Pack

Philips 457887 Fluorescent 32W T8 48" Cool White (4100K) 10 Pack in Fluorescent & Neon Tubes.

a.co

I will be buying more too. I have a half-dozen new electronic ballasts I just put into service last year.

 

[BurtEggley]

tube are available in many states. But they cannot be shipped to California nor distributed. All I know is that the instructions called for a fuse. But I understand the legalese ****. I read it again and the purpose is stated. To protect the idiot who tries to put the wrong bulb in.

 

[BurtEggley]

"To protect against future misapplication..." In other words you need little plastic covers over your receptacles too so you neighbor doesn't stick his tongue into one when he comes to visit after too many beers.

 

[American Locomotive]

Are these single ended or double ended bulbs? I could see it being an issue on a single ended conversion, as you'd have 120v potential across the two contacts on one tombstone. If you put a regular fluorescent bulb in there, you will blow up the cathode filament when you turned the power on - probably trip the breaker, too.

If they are double-ended conversion with hot on one and and neutral on the other, then nothing will happen if you put a fluorescent in there. Fluorescents many hundred volts across them before the tube will strike.

 

[wyb2]

If you don’t want the headache and it’s not too late, return them and just buy the linkable LED fixtures.

My garage came with 8’ T12 fixtures. I thought that was crazy for a home garage, but I wasn’t going to fix what wasn’t broken. Until I was trying to remount one to a better position and dropped it (those ballasts are awkwardly heavy when you are on a ladder), then it was broken.

I installed one of these:


And 4 of these:


It was easy to do, and I can change/update things easily. That side of the garage is brighter now, doesn’t buzz, and doesn’t need time to ‘warm up’ to full brightness in the winter. It’s a big enough difference that I bought the fixtures to cover the rest, but haven’t gotten around to executing.

I’m guessing converting existing fixtures is a little cheaper, but if you want a low-headache solution, consider this route.

 

[kngelv]

Just buy new fixtures. It will be way less of a headache. Also 6500K is quite bright inside a building.

James

 

[logical]

Just buy new fixtures. It will be way less of a headache. Also 6500K is quite bright inside a building.

Jamed

Exactly, don't nurse a dead cat.

 

[Bert_]

Converting existing fixtures is easier, cheaper, and better than using those cheap bottom of the barrel linkable led fixtures.

6500*k has nothing to do with how bright a light is...

 

[dave*99]

4000K to 5000K is comfortable for me. 6500K is harsh for my eyes.

 

[LopezBart]

4000K to 5000K is comfortable for me. 6500K is harsh for my eyes.

I use 4000K for shop area lighting, and and perhaps a bit higher for dedicated task lighting such as over the lathe or mill. Our house is warmer, with 3000K lighting in most areas.

 

[dave*99]

I use 4000K for shop area lighting, and and perhaps a bit higher for dedicated task lighting such as over the lathe or mill. Our house is warmer, with 3000K lighting in most areas.

Yes 3000K in the living space.

 

[sparky 1971]

4000K to 5000K is comfortable for me. 6500K is harsh for my eyes.

I have 5000K in my garage and 4000K in my basement office/gym/furnace/freezer room that my wife likes to pile **** in

Yes 3000K in the living space.

Too white for me in the living spaces. I run 2700K in the basement family room cans that I hang out in because they are cheap and readily available anywhere and I get 2400K for the cans on the main level, the exterior fixtures are 2200 except for the floods that I could only find in 3000. It was my wife who is a former photographer and decorator that turned me on to lighting, before her I couldn't have cared less as long as I could see.

 

[dave*99]

I have 5000K in my garage and 4000K in my basement office/gym/furnace/freezer room that my wife likes to pile **** in

Too white for me in the living spaces. I run 2700K in the basement family room cans that I hang out in because they are cheap and readily available anywhere and I get 2400K for the cans on the main level, the exterior fixtures are 2200 except for the floods that I could only find in 3000. It was my wife who is a former photographer and decorator that turned me on to lighting, before her I couldn't have cared less as long as I could see.

I like 2700K in living space. I dislike differing colors in the same space. I settled on 3000K because some of the LED types I have are not available in 2700K. Discs pucks strips etc. Maybe I could have shopped better but that’s where I landed. I dim the lights quite a bit when relaxing. My wife says I should live in a cave. I’d be happy with a single candle.

The shop and garage are bright. But not the living room.

 

[BurtEggley]

Bought a 20 pack of T8 direct wiring GE LEDs from the blue box store, got fuses and holders from Digikey, the same part numbers as GE calls for in their wiring instructions. All ready to start wiring the new LEDs in. They did not have 5000K. 4000K was too, mmmn say living room-ish for me, so I bought the 6500K, the same as the present fluorescents. I'll do the fixture in my office first and if it is too bright, take them back for another color or go elsewhere for the bulbs. These LEDs have an L and an N end, but can be wired several other ways. I plan to run the L from the black to all the tombstones at one end, and the N to the tombstones on the other end. The bulbs go in one way for that type wiring with the marks L at one end and the N at the other of the bulbs. The fuses go in line with the black wire. The purpose of the fuses is stated in one sentence in their notes on the bulbs. It is to protect against an idiot who puts regular T-8 bulbs into the fixture at some future date. I also got some warning labels that go on the fixtures to state they are converted to LED.

Now the question, there is a chance that some of the wires from the tombstones may be too short to reach the neutral and the black wire providing power. Does anyone know the code on extending wires inside a metal fluorescent light fixture? Can I use a wire of the same gauge as the tombstones if properly colored, or does it have to be a piece of romex, or thhn etc.. Or do I need to put new wires on the tombstones, where those wire are long enough to connect to the incoming power wires?

 

[BurtEggley]

my electrician said strip some romex or use thhn. I used some thhn I had, and wired fuses in per spec sheet. All done and working well. Donated the old T8 lights to a local church that needed them. With the exception of the attic, everything in the house is LED now.

 

[Junkman]

I have a case of 4' LED bulbs that use the transformer that I no longer need. If anyone wants to come and get them, let me know. I am in CT on the MA border near Southbridge, MA. After January 1st, I can probably obtain 100 or more fixtures that are being removed.