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Heat & AC on a budget

Elder

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Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Sioux City,IA
Hi guys, im currently remodeling my 24x24 garage. i have to have heat for our winters and would like to have AC for the summer but if the budget gets in the way then the AC will have to wait. I am debating doing a combo unit but they seem rather spendy. i was wondering what you guys have done and what you would suggest?

Thanks,
Mike
 
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pseudorealityx

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Nov 10, 2009
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999
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USA
Mike, your post is kinda vague. Add some detail. Flush it out.

1) What IS your budget?
2) WHERE are you?
3) WHAT are you doing in your garage?
4) WHAT are your desired conditions inside the garage?
5) WHAT is the current condition of the space in regards to insulation, windows, doors, etc.
 
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Elder

Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Sioux City,IA
Mike, your post is kinda vague. Add some detail. Flush it out.

1) What IS your budget?
2) WHERE are you?
3) WHAT are you doing in your garage?
4) WHAT are your desired conditions inside the garage?
5) WHAT is the current condition of the space in regards to insulation, windows, doors, etc.

I cannot spend a penny over 2k althought i would really like to be more in the 1-1500 range. I am in Iowa so we see all the seasons. i would like to keep it in the mid-high 70s in the summer and get it up to the mid to high 60's in the winter. nothing has been insulated yet. that is this weekends project. spray in for the walls, roll in for the celing. i work on cars from time to time and do a lot of routine work on our drag car so when im out there its for a couple of hrs at a crack before work and most of the day on the weekends.
 

pipsters

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Sep 1, 2010
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USA
1 to 1.5 ton mini-split aka ductless if you are installing yourself it will be well under your budget if you want both in one unit.

However gas is probably a better choice for heat in your area.
 
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Elder

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Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Sioux City,IA
Gas would be a major pain to try and run it our from the house. I have a friend that can help with the install. he mentioned a mini split but told me to ask around and see what other people are doing
 

Jagmandave

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Nov 6, 2011
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6,302
Location
Overland Park, Ks.
A hotel/motel unit has heat and A/C for about $600.

I bought an A/C heater from Amazon for $585, it's just a big window A/C with an electric heat strip but we get similar weather extremes as you and it works a treat! I built it into the window and insulated around it.....

My garage is a standard 2 car, with an extension on one side that doubles the length, so call it a 2 car and a 1/2.
 

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Elder

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May 21, 2013
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Sioux City,IA
How does that keep up? does it run alot? ive heard some good things about the mini splits. havent heard much about that style
 
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Elder

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May 21, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Sioux City,IA
a bit off topic, but i was doing some shopping around and i see that some of these units are energy star qualified. has anyone tried to use this for a tax credit? curious if i could catch any greif for it since the garge is detached?
 

tylernt

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Jan 24, 2013
Messages
182
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Idaho, US
I purchased an Amana window/through-the-wall unit for about $600. It's a 240V reversible heat pump. Heating, when temps outside are over 40°F it uses heat pump mode which uses 1/3 as much as electricity compared to pure resistive electric heat. Saves some $$$ on my power bill. Below 40°F outside, it switches to full resistive heat (3.5kW as I recall). And of course it's an air conditioner in the summer too. ;)

Mine is only 12K BTU for a 12x30 shop, you probably want the 18K BTU version for a 24x24.

Stepping up from the small units, a PTAC (motel style) is 4ft wide so requires a much bigger hole in the wall and is a bit more expensive up front, but is more efficient (better COP or Coefficient of Performance) to save you money in the long run. PTACs also have neat features like freeze protection where, even if switched off, it will turn itself on just enough to keep your shop from going below 35°F or so.

Moving up to a mini-split is yet more efficient (COP) and will let you operate in money-saving heat pump mode when outside temperatures are lower than 40°F. However not all have built-in backup resistive elements for when weather drops below the critical outside temperature (20°-0° depending on the model), so that is sometimes an extra cost to add one.
 
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Elder

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May 21, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Sioux City,IA
Moving up to a mini-split is yet more efficient (COP) and will let you operate in money-saving heat pump mode when outside temperatures are lower than 40°F. However not all have built-in backup resistive elements for when weather drops below the critical outside temperature (20°-0° depending on the model), so that is sometimes an extra cost to add one.

I would need that for sure it gets below zero in the Late winter here often
 
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tylernt

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Jan 24, 2013
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Idaho, US
I would need that for sure it gets below zero in the Late winter here often

It does here too, but usually in the wee hours of the morning when I'm sleeping in the house and not working out in the shop. ;) Usually I'm out there in the evenings after work, during the warmest part of the day. It may not always be above 40°F then, but especially in the fall and spring, I still realize some savings. Even if it does kick in to resistive heat mode for a few weeks of winter, I don't spend 40 hours a week out there so it doesn't break the bank.

Your situation may vary...
 

pipsters

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If I were to pick between mini split and hotel style I would go mini split every day of the week. It's a 3" hole in the wall vs a huge cut in. Main unit mounts on a pad outside and the lineset is run thru the wall. Then you mount the blower on the inside and just hang it. No need to worry about all that insulating around the large hole in the wall - not to mention you can see through them so all the insulation in the world won't really help because the units themselves aren't air tight.

With your winters heat strips are going to kill you on electricity costs.
 

HAP

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Aug 24, 2011
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856
Location
NE North Carolina
I installed my old house heat pump in my shop when I upgraded to a R410A unit. I just installed it with out any duct work and it does the job.

I bet you can find an old system somewhere for near nothing.
 

Social_Joe

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Dec 25, 2009
Messages
80
Location
Cleveland, OH / Oklahoma Expat.
I have a 35X40 pole barn style building with r panel siding/roof, 3" batt insulation, about 10' average to the eaves, three insulated 10x7 doors, and an insulated man-door.

For heat, I found a 3.5 ton house-style AHU for $250 used (it's a fairly new model). Once it had run a couple times I realized the fancy shmanzy digital motor controller had died. Instead of spending $500 on a new motor or $350 on a new board, I bought a traditional blower motor, start relay, and cap for right at $100 from Granger and backdated the AHU. I had a plenum built for it, but never got around to installing it or running ducts. With a box fan in the rafter to push the air and a ceiling fan to push it back down it'll take my shop from below freezing to the 60's in a VERY short time. I spent around $80-$100 on wiring, conduit, breakers, and 2x4's to build a stand/intake plenum. It's getting harder to score old units from contractors, they scrap them for copper money FAST. Best to troll CL or give your name/number to a HVAC contractor you trust, so they can call you when they pull a decent unit out.

The shop came with a nice wood stove, but it's really impractical if I'm just out there for a couple hours. I have it for fun/emergencies, but with the electric AHU... walk out, flip switch, get working and in awhile "man it's pretty comfy in here".

For a/c, I want to add a compressor to the unit I described abve as is has an a-coil, however it's an R22 unit, so I'd need a new thermal expansion valve and I'd have to score a newer model compressor to run the new refridgerant (Puron, I can't remember the code at the moment), then call in a favor to have the lines run and charged. Nevermind that adding the two breakers for the AHU basically maxed out my panel, so I'd need a new sub-panel.

Currently I have a 15500 BTU window unit a co-worker gave me installed in the work area / lounge area of the shop. It's run on an isolated 20 amp circuit. It doesn't begin to cool the whole place down, but it takes the bite off for sure. I keep trolling CL looking for a used 220V window unit to install on the opposite side of the shop. I know running both will MURDER my electric bill, but I'm only out there in the evenings and weekends and having the ability to take it from 110deg in SW Oklahoma down into the 80's is worth every penny. If I own that much insulated/enclosed space, I should be able to at least make it comfy when I want.


I also bought a tiny 5000btu window unit for $40 from a buddy. It's installed in the corner I enclosed for my doghouse and runs to a switched outlet. If we have to be gone a long while or it gets stupid hot, I can switch it on and easily cool down my doghouse. I know it sounds ridiculous, but so does $28/day to board my dogs. I also have an automatic dog waterer in there, it's pretty plush :D
 
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tylernt

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Jan 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Idaho, US
So the general consensus is a mini split would be cheaper, better and easier on the utility bill?

Mini-splits are usually more expensive than window/wall/PTACs, but that $725 sale seems like a screaming deal.
 

deter

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Jun 22, 2011
Messages
578
Location
Indiana
How does energy usage compare between mini split and in wall heat pump? Ive seen in wall heat pumps work really well for an insulated 2car garage.
 

Jagmandave

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Nov 6, 2011
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6,302
Location
Overland Park, Ks.
How does that keep up? does it run alot? ive heard some good things about the mini splits. havent heard much about that style

I just installed it early this year, so I haven't run it enough to get a firm grasp on how it's going to hit my electric bill, but I can tell you that it does work, it takes about 30 min to take the garage from 40* to 60*, then I have to turn it down a bit.

On A/C we haven't had any really hot days yet, but it's an 18K BTU rated unit, so I think it will do the trick. I had a 5K unit that would cool it down overnight, but when you'd open a garage door you lost eveything you gained overnight.

It has an automatic setting that adjusts the fan speed down once the temp equalizes, and it's really quiet. When on full you can feel the breeze in pretty much any part of the shop, so it blows pretty good.

I don't need it everyday, in fact so far this year I've hardly used it but come this August I'm sure it will be most welcome, and next Jan/Feb it'll make the difference between being able to work in my shop and not....
 

tylernt

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Jan 24, 2013
Messages
182
Location
Idaho, US
How does energy usage compare between mini split and in wall heat pump? Ive seen in wall heat pumps work really well for an insulated 2car garage.

COP
Window/in-wall: 2.5 to 3.0
PTAC: 3.0 to 4.0
Mini-split: 3.3 to 5.0

So there is some overlap depending on model.
 
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