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Heat Pump in Northeast

homelessdespot

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Been house shopping and see a few houses and condos listed as Heat Pump and they look like they have forced air vents from the pictures. It gets below freezing quite often in CT and sometimes below zero. Would a heat pump be capable of heating that low efficiently? I think our electric rates are around 10.143¢/kwh. Wondering if that would be more expensive than oil heat.
 
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pl_silverado

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No, they can't keep up. And the electric bill sky rockets once the electric resistance backup strips kick in. I just went thru this in a house I bought in 2013. About 2 winters ago, I had enough of being cold and thru the roof electric bills and put an oil furnace in the house. I now have it set to where it runs off heat pump down to 38 degrees, and below that kicks over to oil.
 

Jackfre

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Carefully check out the specs on that units. If it is an old air to air unit its will have a second stage that is electric back-up heat and it is probably set to go electric at 40* or so. Some of the newer inverter HP's can go lower. Essentially, if it is the older type you will have electric heat all winter. I am surprised CT has such low power rates.
In comparison to electric heat, yes, oil will be cheaper to operate. You could install an oil boil to a hot water coil in the HP plenum and the HP fan moves the heat. That way the HP stays in place to give you cooling. The other advantage to oil is you can add an indirect hot water tank and eliminate the electric water heater you currently have. I guess there is no gas available.
 
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homelessdespot

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I am surprised CT has such low power rates.

Oh, I think it's more like 17.24 cents per kilowatt hour. Idk, I don't have bill in front of me. Where I'm looking, norwalk, CT, it is around 95% oil heat and 5% gas. Depends on towns here, some have a ton of gas, some have barely any if at all.
 

CarBikeGuy70

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Just a thought- quoted kw rate does not include distribution charge. I just looked at my bill and it is more than double the quoted figure once distribution charge is included. Any resistance heating in Ct is insane in cost. A mini split is ok for heating but with the obvious issue of efficiency at lower temperatures. Remember a mini split system has a heat strip to defrost the coil in cold temperatures - but they work very well in the shoulder seasons. Conversion to oil for heat would make sense, keep heat pump for cooling with a coil in the plenum for heat.
 

harley jim

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Most of the homes in my area have heat pumps, or package units as they are called here. It will cost you the farm to run one up north. As was stated the pump cannot extract heat from outside and heat the inside (and that is basically what it is doing) much below 40-35 deg. When the 10 kv heat strips kick in so dose the electric meter. My unit is 16 seer but I dont think that applies to energy consumption in emergency heat mode. Not a good idea imho. Jim

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
 
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99LeCouch

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Depends the heat pump and the house in question. A modern 10.0 HSPF multi-stage unit appropriately sized and ducted will keep up below freezing if the house is well insulated and air sealed. Lots of "if's" there.

Energy audits and blower door test results will help determine if the heat pump is economical to run. Some are, even in northern areas.
 

Bert_

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They work fine. Natural gas is cheaper if you have access to it. Propane is cheaper right now but there have been winter's when propane was more money. Depends on your electric rates also of course. If you have something crazy like 20c/kw then it probably isn't the right choice. Right now my rates are 8.5c/kw for the first 1000kw then about 5c/kw for everything after that. In this area I would definitely install a heat pump if I did not have natural gas.

Most modern ones will work down to 20* or so. I know of some set to switch over even lower.
 
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homelessdespot

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Propane is cheaper right now but there have been winter's when propane was more money. Depends on your electric rates also of course. If you have something crazy like 20c/kw then it probably isn't the right choice.

As someone else mentioned I think electric is more like 20c/kw after delivery rate in CT. I think propane is higher than oil here at the moment too, I'll have to look into that. I am house shopping so it depends on what a house already has. 95-99% of houses in the town I'm shopping (Norwalk, CT) are oil. Gas isn't on very many streets and they don't have plans to expand anytime soon. VERY frustrating as it's the most economical energy up here. Neighboring towns are much higher tax or prices.
 

yeldogt

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Modern heat pumps have no problem delivering heat in very cold temp -- my 5 speed carrier unit was spinning along w/o any issues a few years ago at 3 degrees. And putting out hot air. It has no electric resistance backup ...

I did another same system in a house with radiant.

The cost to run -- all depend on electric rate and the rating of the unit. The older single speed units did not work in cold temps.


My new place will use another 5 speed and a propane furnace -- this will give me two ways to heat depending on cost. Oil is a viable way depending on area -- it just was not going to work in the new house. You also have to factor in the service cost with oil -- you can;t jsut run them year after year without cleaning
 

bonneyman

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Most of my customers in Tucson (a very mild winter area mind you) hate heap pumps - especially those winter visitors from northern states. If you're used to the heater coming on and 140 degree air coming out you will not like a heat pump.
 

Showkey

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Been there done that........Would not touch a heat pump in cold climate ( north) :

you never feel warm. ( see post 11)
cost a small fortune to run.
Maintenance high and life expectancies low.
 

shaeff

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Heat pumps in the northeast are pretty much a waste. My brother uses one in a relatively new home (he built in 2011) during the shoulder months and likes it. Propane furnace backup that rarely runs, but he uses a hot air wood furnace as his primary heat source.

When I had central air installed on our first floor, the tech asked if I wanted a heat pump. It's not worth it to me because less use on the propane will cause price to increase for me. I'm saving for my own 500gal in ground tank which will save me another $800ish/yr over the company supplied tanks.

Now, if you're talking about GEOTHERMAL heat pump, then a well designed system is the way to go in my opinion. Wish I could have afforded it when we had our home built!
 

justinjoyal

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Most of my customers in Tucson (a very mild winter area mind you) hate heap pumps - especially those winter visitors from northern states. If you're used to the heater coming on and 140 degree air coming out you will not like a heat pump.

Been there done that........Would not touch a heat pump in cold climate ( north) :

you never feel warm. ( see post 11)
cost a small fortune to run.
Maintenance high and life expectancies low.

Heat pumps in the northeast are pretty much a waste. My brother uses one in a relatively new home (he built in 2011) during the shoulder months and likes it. Propane furnace backup that rarely runs, but he uses a hot air wood furnace as his primary heat source.

I have to disagree.

A LOT of homes have heat pumps now here in eastern Canada, where january (coldest time of the year) temperature averages 10F, with drops below -20F.

All mini-splits I sell are heat pumps. Only one model in the whole line-up is sold as straight A/C and it's only 50$ less than the heat pump version... so you can imagine people all end up going for the HP.

Split heat pump systems are ~600$ more (entry level, what we sell mostly) for the heat pump VS A/C only.

They work really well and are cheap to run because our electricity rates are low. The ROI is rather quick. Of course, local utility rates dictate if a HP system makes sense or not.

Those who are used to their old furnace have to get used to their HP systems because the heat is less intense, but the comfort is often better because the HP runs longer and creates less temperature swings from short cycling.

I fail to see how they are high maintenance and have short life expectancies ? All system require basic maintenance, which will play a big role in life expectancy. We often see 15, 20+ yr old heat pumps still going...
 
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Earp69

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there great for the shoulder season,but its not for all winter.
 

Earp69

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I bet my customers who rely solely on their heat pump to heat most of their home all winter long would disagree. :beer:

Sure, but what's the return on investment on those? A guy I work with just had an Armstrong installed and it doesn't heat under 38 degrees. He paid 13k to have it installed, I can only imagine the cost of a hyper heat exchanger.. Not saying the technology isn't there, but the price point isn't there yet. Atleast around here
 

Kenta

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In Southern NH. I have two Daikin units with a total of 5 heads (2 bottom floor, 3 heads upstairs). We can run them easily down to 15-20 degrees, the units on paper can theoretically run down to 5F. To prevent risking running them in the really low temps we generally switch to oil once winter really kicks in and just leave it that way till right about now.

It's been a while and I had calculated costs vs oil and it's pretty much a wash with oil prices so low right now. At this point we use the units 2/3 of the year (Excluding Nov-> Feb) for a mix of heating and cooling. My long term plan is to go solar, if I can oversize the system a little the goal would be to use the mini splits as much as possible. I wouldn't consider them 100% for heat here because we can get some really bad weather. A friend of mine has a Mitsubishi unit that will do negative temps, but, I'm told the efficiency goes into the crapper at those temps.
 

yeldogt

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As I said above --- they work if you buy one with the proper specifications .... talking about a unit 10 year ago .. especially if a builder model in a new house. Different story.

They work -- and the temp output is amazing.

with .10 electric they are more efficient vs going propane.

The thing with heat pumps is they must be sized correctly and maintain temps ... that's how the work best.

The key to comfort and efficiency is matching the load -- most home have heating systems that are way oversized ... we become accustomed to large gas units with large set backs. Large setbacks don'' provide great savings .. but that how we view comfort.

It much more comfortable to have smaller units always supplying some heat ..
 
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yeldogt

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Sure, but what's the return on investment on those? A guy I work with just had an Armstrong installed and it doesn't heat under 38 degrees. He paid 13k to have it installed, I can only imagine the cost of a hyper heat exchanger.. Not saying the technology isn't there, but the price point isn't there yet. Atleast around here


the units are more expensive ,,, it all depends on the area. In my case the rebates made the more efficient units cheaper than buying the standard.

it's math

The VS equipment -- be it gas or HP is really about comfort. silent and matched load
 

u3b3rg33k

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Been house shopping and see a few houses and condos listed as Heat Pump and they look like they have forced air vents from the pictures. It gets below freezing quite often in CT and sometimes below zero. Would a heat pump be capable of heating that low efficiently? I think our electric rates are around 10.143¢/kwh. Wondering if that would be more expensive than oil heat.

I have a friend in CT who was railing about his $800 jan, feb winter electric bills with his heat pump. he did some air sealing which helped (chimney balloon, windows and doors, basement vents, etc), brought things down to about $400/mo during the bad months.

then i got wise and we got him a proper heat pump thermostat with outdoor sensor and intelligent use of aux heat, and got him down to around $250/mo.

when his system finally died (single stage 2.5 ton), he upgraded to a Variable speed 3 ton system, and now his bills are in the $150/mo range, plus it's quieter and more even heat. bills lower than mine and I have gas!
 
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yeldogt

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I have a friend in CT who was railing about his $800 jan, feb winter electric bills with his heat pump. he did some air sealing which helped (chimney balloon, windows and doors, basement vents, etc), brought things down to about $400/mo during the bad months.

then i got wise and we got him a proper heat pump thermostat with outdoor sensor and intelligent use of aux heat, and got him down to around $250/mo.

when his system finally died (single stage 2.5 ton), he upgraded to a Variable speed 3 ton system, and now his bills are in the $150/mo range, plus it's quieter and more even heat. bills lower than mine and I have gas!


People don't understand them ... the older units do start dropping off as the temps fall ....BUT -- Installers would have them set up with the resistance heat coming on way too early.

Energy is saved when you lower the temp in the heating season or raise the temp in AC season --- not when you do large setbacks. Setbacks force the equipment to run on high if VS -- with the heat pumps the only way to get extra heat is for the resistance to come on.

So you turn down the heat at night .. well --- when the thermostat tells the system to come on the only way it can bring the temp up quickly is to run the aux -- partial or full. That aux is resistance heat and costing 2/3 times more $$. I have seen some set up at 45 cut off -- so the heat pump is not even running when it's 40 degrees.

If you do a set back at night -- and that causes the unit to need aux heat in the morning -- the warm up is costing many times more money vs just letting the system run.
 
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homelessdespot

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he upgraded to a Variable speed 3 ton system, and now his bills are in the $150/mo range, plus it's quieter and more even heat. bills lower than mine and I have gas!

That's impressive. Did he have to run a backup heating system like oil or propane? Or is the HP the only heating he has?
 

justinjoyal

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Sure, but what's the return on investment on those? A guy I work with just had an Armstrong installed and it doesn't heat under 38 degrees. He paid 13k to have it installed, I can only imagine the cost of a hyper heat exchanger.. Not saying the technology isn't there, but the price point isn't there yet. Atleast around here



Pretty much all mini-splits are heat pumps here now, so getting A/C means you are getting heat as well, so it starts paying off on day 1 basically. Even the entry level models do pretty good down to 0F.

Central(split) units are a few hundreds more as I said, but it’s usually a rather quick payback for a new system.

The guy you work with probably got a hack job, or his system was installed 10 years ago maybe?
 

yeldogt

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That's impressive. Did he have to run a backup heating system like oil or propane? Or is the HP the only heating he has?

Did you read my post above? One of my systems has no back up strips .. or furnace.

The mini splits do not have back up either ...

It's all in the design specifications .. you have to read them.

Most mini-splits will work in low temps .. the hyper heats not only work in low temps ... they provide full output at low temps. That's what people don't understand -- what's the output at a given exterior temp.

In my new build I'm installing a propane furnace with the Carrier heat pump -- this allows me to use the propane when it's the more affordable way to go. I'm in a .20KW electric area ... so propane can be cheaper as the temps drop. It's important to understand ... even as temps drop and the HP become less efficient they can still produce heat for less $$ vs just using the resistance. Sadly -- many system are stupid and can't run both together .. so they switch to resistance when they could be saving some $$.
 
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homelessdespot

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Did you read my post above? One of my systems has no back up strips .. or furnace.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it, seriously. But did you read my posts either? Are you in CT? Is this common practice in CT? How does this relate to my house shopping? This case sounds like it is the exception.

I'm house shopping. Unless I inspect the the system to look for backup strips (which I'm not experienced enough to do) I'm not going to know what kind of Heat Pump system a house has. And realtors don't generally don't even know the type of HVAC in the house. They are not going to give me "specifications" of their heating system until I put an offer in on a house.

Given that it takes between $15k-$20k or more to replace ANY type of HVAC system in my area, and I'm also in an area where electricity is > 20c/kwh, that's key information when trying to bid on houses.

Sadly -- many system are stupid and can't run both together .. so they switch to resistance when they could be saving some $$.

So I guess I'll just wind up avoiding making offers on houses with heat pumps given my lack of knowledge of them, or be damn sure I know what type of system they have.
 
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yeldogt

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Mine are in NJ and PA -- so same climate. The devil is indeed the details .... a condo or town house will have a lower load .. and depending on insulation and total SF ... they often don't have large heat loads.

A few years ago we rented a house on the Chesapeake for new years week -- It was a big house (new) on the water. Two big heat pumps ... electric on demand hot water. If ever a house should have had propane ... it was that place. The equipment choice was poor -- basic equipment not property sized.

For many years in many parts of the country builders put in HP's because they saved them money -- one system .. easy hook ups. They added cheap resistance backup for the few days that it was needed ... maybe only two weeks in January in a place like Maryland -- and they did not care about operating cost ... the owners paid. The poor performance gave HP's a bad name ...

It's easy to walk around an look at the unit -- most condos have them in a closet
 

justinjoyal

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There have been very efficient central HPs for some time now, but people go for the low end stuff more often than not.
 

u3b3rg33k

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People don't understand them ... the older units do start dropping off as the temps fall ....BUT -- Installers would have them set up with the resistance heat coming on way too early.

Energy is saved when you lower the temp in the heating season or raise the temp in AC season --- not when you do large setbacks. Setbacks force the equipment to run on high if VS -- with the heat pumps the only way to get extra heat is for the resistance to come on.

So you turn down the heat at night .. well --- when the thermostat tells the system to come on the only way it can bring the temp up quickly is to run the aux -- partial or full. That aux is resistance heat and costing 2/3 times more $$. I have seen some set up at 45 cut off -- so the heat pump is not even running when it's 40 degrees.

If you do a set back at night -- and that causes the unit to need aux heat in the morning -- the warm up is costing many times more money vs just letting the system run.
so that's where a "heat pump aware" thermostat comes in.
For example, my go to thermostat is the Honeywell Prestige redlink system. when you hook up a heatpump, it will let you use a setting called "intelligent recovery", which does the following:

aims to be the requested temperature AT the set time, not starting operation at set time
avoids the use of aux heat entirely when coming out of setback
adjusts delivered setback vs requested setback if it can't recover in time (if it's unusually cold outside)
installer set-able aux lockout (thermostat will NOT call for aux heat above X outside temperature) - based on load calculations and system size.

the fuzzy logic uses past performance (it has a downloadable internal datalog) to base it's future behavior on.

the ROI on an expensive thermostat ($400-500 with all the sensors) is sometimes under one month.


That's impressive. Did he have to run a backup heating system like oil or propane? Or is the HP the only heating he has?

the new system is a communicating system, so the backup heat is PWM controlled electric resistance heat. it can do the bulk of the work with the compressor (which has 64 "stages" and "overdrive" (spinning compressor above nameplate rating for cold weather compensation) and provide a comfortable discharge temp by running the aux heat just enough.

The ductless splits/mini splits are a whole different animal, and have been for some time compared to the whole house units.

I still don't think I'd heat my home with a heat pump efficiently compared to my propane fired boiler.

that depends on the price of fuel. in CT, the price per BTU delivered for mid-winter deliveries of propane can be quite high. works great if you can buy in bulk in the summer when there's no demand. my gas price is substantially lower in the summer than it is in the winter. electricity is less variable.

really it all comes down to what is your price per BTU delivered to the home. without doing the math it's just assumptions and fear mongering by vendors.

factors include furnace efficiency (80% or 95%+ furnace?), COP of the heat pump at low temperatures, unnecessary use of aux heat, unnecessary defrost cycles (timer based systems waste substantial energy when the dewpoint is below outdoor coil temps), and so on.

energy waste is another issue entirely (how much heat do you dump out of leaks?).
 
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Earp69

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Pretty much all mini-splits are heat pumps here now, so getting A/C means you are getting heat as well, so it starts paying off on day 1 basically. Even the entry level models do pretty good down to 0F.

Central(split) units are a few hundreds more as I said, but it’s usually a rather quick payback for a new system.

The guy you work with probably got a hack job, or his system was installed 10 years ago maybe?
No it was installed last year. I've talked with more than a handful of guys from work that have had them recently installed and they all claim the same thing, they run forever and can't keep up anything under mid 30s unless the sun is hitting the heat pump. 600 dollars differance isn't even remotely close for a heat pump that will heat down to 0 degrees.I installed a new furnace/ac last fall and I quoted out differant units with and without heat pumps. And I get the supply houses pricing.
 

yeldogt

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No it was installed last year. I've talked with more than a handful of guys from work that have had them recently installed and they all claim the same thing, they run forever and can't keep up anything under mid 30s unless the sun is hitting the heat pump. 600 dollars differance isn't even remotely close for a heat pump that will heat down to 0 degrees.I installed a new furnace/ac last fall and I quoted out differant units with and without heat pumps. And I get the supply houses pricing.

All the mini splits are heat pumps -- But not all mini splits will produce full output at 5 degrees.

Traditional split systems are all over the map ,, so just because something was installed last year does not = being about to give full output at 5 degrees.

Both a mini and the VS traditional split will run all the time .. or most of the time. That the idea -- they modulate output to provide whats needed.

I can watch my 5 speed carrier unit as it ramps up and down depending on need.

Another item is the way they defrost. The vast majority of units use a times system -- they go through defrost regardless of need. The better units only defrost when needed and they tend to be faster -- so less time down and no cold air.
 
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yeldogt

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so that's where a "heat pump aware" thermostat comes in.
For example, my go to thermostat is the Honeywell Prestige redlink system. when you hook up a heatpump, it will let you use a setting called "intelligent recovery", which does the following:

aims to be the requested temperature AT the set time, not starting operation at set time
avoids the use of aux heat entirely when coming out of setback
adjusts delivered setback vs requested setback if it can't recover in time (if it's unusually cold outside)
installer set-able aux lockout (thermostat will NOT call for aux heat above X outside temperature) - based on load calculations and system size.

the fuzzy logic uses past performance (it has a downloadable internal datalog) to base it's future behavior on.

the ROI on an expensive thermostat ($400-500 with all the sensors) is sometimes under one month.




the new system is a communicating system, so the backup heat is PWM controlled electric resistance heat. it can do the bulk of the work with the compressor (which has 64 "stages" and "overdrive" (spinning compressor above nameplate rating for cold weather compensation) and provide a comfortable discharge temp by running the aux heat just enough.



that depends on the price of fuel. in CT, the price per BTU delivered for mid-winter deliveries of propane can be quite high. works great if you can buy in bulk in the summer when there's no demand. my gas price is substantially lower in the summer than it is in the winter. electricity is less variable.

really it all comes down to what is your price per BTU delivered to the home. without doing the math it's just assumptions and fear mongering by vendors.

factors include furnace efficiency (80% or 95%+ furnace?), COP of the heat pump at low temperatures, unnecessary use of aux heat, unnecessary defrost cycles (timer based systems waste substantial energy when the dewpoint is below outdoor coil temps), and so on.

energy waste is another issue entirely (how much heat do you dump out of leaks?).

I have been using Carrier equipment for about 15 years -- the Infinity line. You have to use the Carrier thermostat -- it has a setback and recovery system. I don't use a big setback ... only a few degrees.
 

justinjoyal

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No it was installed last year. I've talked with more than a handful of guys from work that have had them recently installed and they all claim the same thing, they run forever and can't keep up anything under mid 30s unless the sun is hitting the heat pump. 600 dollars differance isn't even remotely close for a heat pump that will heat down to 0 degrees.I installed a new furnace/ac last fall and I quoted out differant units with and without heat pumps. And I get the supply houses pricing.



So they probably got some of the crappiest units/installs out there and/or wrong sizing. Simple as that.

Because when done right, they work well.
 

yeldogt

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In areas w/o NG. Cold climate ---- Duel fuel (propane/ heat pump) is a good way to go for those with worries. .. it gives a lot of flexibility.

Although -- I was just at a small development the other day and noticed all high end heat pumps. The local utility provided rebates and upgraded utility so the builder built all electric.
 

Bert_

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In areas w/o NG. Cold climate ---- Duel fuel (propane/ heat pump) is a good way to go for those with worries. .. it gives a lot of flexibility.

Although -- I was just at a small development the other day and noticed all high end heat pumps. The local utility provided rebates and upgraded utility so the builder built all electric.


Agreed on the heat pump with fuel backup being ideal.

Down side is you lose out on some of the rebates and the utilities here that offer reduced rates for electric heating only offer it if you have electric backup. At least in my neck of the woods.
 

u3b3rg33k

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I have been using Carrier equipment for about 15 years -- the Infinity line. You have to use the Carrier thermostat -- it has a setback and recovery system. I don't use a big setback ... only a few degrees.

if I were going to DIY a system today and didn't want a communicating system, I'd get a bosch BOVA ODU - it watches pressures to determine load (requires TXV coil) and will target indoor coil temps, modulation from 25%-110% of nameplate, offered in 3 or 5 ton sizes.

which means you can stage/zone it based on airflow across the coil and it will "right size" to the CFM/delta T - all you have to do is manage airflow.

ironically they pair it with a single speed air handler.
 

yeldogt

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if I were going to DIY a system today and didn't want a communicating system, I'd get a bosch BOVA ODU - it watches pressures to determine load (requires TXV coil) and will target indoor coil temps, modulation from 25%-110% of nameplate, offered in 3 or 5 ton sizes.

which means you can stage/zone it based on airflow across the coil and it will "right size" to the CFM/delta T - all you have to do is manage airflow.

ironically they pair it with a single speed air handler.

The Bosch unit is very interesting ... I mentioned to my brother when he was looking for upgrades for a recent house purchase in SC two summer ago.

I have only read about the unit -- one of the installer I have come across while getting bids for two of my projects recently has used them ... I forget how many.

The problem with the better equipment: Most of the time the installers have little real world knowledge of the products. The guy that did the Bosch based his recommendation on the "people love them" and they got a "better deal" vs replacing the whole system .. That does not say much. No real world living experience.

It's like getting your gall bladder removed -- you need a guy who has done 10k of them .. not the best brain surgeon who has never done any.

I started using the infinity 2 stage system because the dealer/owner of the local oil company installed them .. this was back in 05. Same when the Carrier 5 speed came out .. he recommended it over the more expensive Greenspeed. The vast majority of installers tell clients to stay away from the higher end equipment -- if you push on why ... or have they installed .... the answer is typically "no"

So, it's really not coming from any experience. I get some of it ... they install what they know and don't want to recommend something that is expensive and may not do when others are saying. The guys that recommend high end equipment -- do a lot of it. They know how to sell it .. what it will and will not do. When I was debating the Carrier 5 speed or full VS Greenspeed back 4-5 years ago -- both were new (they redesigned the Greenspped)... but my installer had done both and was loving the 5 speed and took me to see and hear it. I was also zoning.

I try and not bad mouth or talk up thing I know nothing about -- but, I know these systems work. Trane evidently now makes a zoning system that I'm told is equal to Carriers system ... but -- it's more money .. why switch?

It's the same with mini-splits .. While I have used LG and Fujitsu -- all the recent ones have been Mitsubishi (most multi head). So -- I can comet on those. I'm tempted to use that new Mr Cool DIY traditional split NP system that just came out for my studio AC -- just to try it out. The building already has a propane heater.
 

Pressingonward

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
522
Location
SW WA
Good info guys, thanks for sharing. I'm heating with resistance electric heat and it's killing my wallet - $200-$400/month in heating costs during the winter months when outside temps are on average 45-32 degrees F. Not bad compared to more northern climates, but pretty bad costs for around here. Going to start getting bids for a central heat pump system and new furnace (1975 house) as well as considering doing it myself. I have most of the tools to charge the system and am more concerned with figuring out how to deal with our crappy duct system and installing a new furnace than installing a HP and charging it...

Anyways, I appreciate the discussion and it gives me an idea of where to start my research.
 
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