Heat Pump Water heater?

[toyotadriver]

The only issue you need to be aware of with the GE water heater is if you are trying to mount it in or near a living area. These water heaters are noisy. I have mine mounted in an attached garage and it works fine. However, I would not want it mounted inside the house where I live.

 

[mpire]

The water heater is going in the garage.

If its louder than the compressor, then I am going to have to return it.

 

[1991Syclone]

Dad faxed over the receipt.

Total comes out to $714.70 for the water heater after taxes.

Not sure how he did that to be honest, but they are having an appliance sale.

Whatever, so that means its going to be $714.70-$650 for a grand total of $64.70.

I am not sure how that is even possible, but I am filing the paperwork now to get the energy credit.

Is the $650 rebate through OUC? Just wondering if FPL would have something comparable going on. Please do post the receipt when you get it. I might do something similar. Hell, we've just done the roof, going to be doing A/C, why not the water heater?

 

[suntex01]

So my pops ordered the GE unit.

Got 15% off, so about $850.

Unit will be at the store on Wednesday of next week.

As soon as I get the receipt I will begin the filing paperwork.

Hey,
Where did your dad get the Geospring for 850?

I'm thinking about getting one as well.
Also, there's some problems with GE heat pump.
Take a look first before you buy.

 

[toyotadriver]

The water heater is going in the garage.

If its louder than the compressor, then I am going to have to return it.

It's much quieter than any air compressor that I've heard. It's just too noisy to be in a living area IMO.

 

[mpire]

Hey,
Where did your dad get the Geospring for 850?

I'm thinking about getting one as well.
Also, there's some problems with GE heat pump.
Take a look first before you buy.

Well, since its only costing me $64.70 I can afford the extended warranty.

Dad got it on sale at Sears. He also gets an employee discount because he worked there for 35 years. So the discounts add up. The retail price is $999.88 less the coupons and then the employee discount.

 

[mpire]

It's much quieter than any air compressor that I've heard. It's just too noisy to be in a living area IMO.

One of the biggest benefits of this system will be augmenting the cooling of the air conditioner I just installed in the garage. I haven't actually used it on a hot day yet, but I did fire it up and test it.

Cool garage win.

 

[mpire]

Is the $650 rebate through OUC? Just wondering if FPL would have something comparable going on. Please do post the receipt when you get it. I might do something similar. Hell, we've just done the roof, going to be doing A/C, why not the water heater?

Yup. Its the new program for 2012. They changed the rules and now give rebates on different stuff than last year.

http://www.ouc.com/Libraries/RG_Documents/Residential_Rebate_Form.sflb.ashx

What a perfect way to make everyone else pay to cool my garage!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Have you had it installed long enough to tell us how much money you're saving? What is the payback? Does it make economic sense in real life?

 

[Greatbear]

The heater has a pair of 120mm variable speed fans inside. The compressor is no louder than a refrigerator, what you will hear is the fans. If the unit is in a fairly warm (and especially humid) area, the fans will slow down since the subcooling will be met. If it is installed in a cool, dry area, the fans will often speed up a bit. The unit needs air circulation to work properly. This is a problem if someone installs the unit in a closet or small room and doesn't provide for additional air circulation. Since he's installing it in a garage in sunny Florida, he has the perfect environment.

Be sure to direct the condensate away from the garage. You can also use the water for plants, etc.

 

[toyotadriver]

The heater has a pair of 120mm variable speed fans inside. The compressor is no louder than a refrigerator, what you will hear is the fans. If the unit is in a fairly warm (and especially humid) area, the fans will slow down since the subcooling will be met. If it is installed in a cool, dry area, the fans will often speed up a bit. The unit needs air circulation to work properly. This is a problem if someone installs the unit in a closet or small room and doesn't provide for additional air circulation. Since he's installing it in a garage in sunny Florida, he has the perfect environment.

Be sure to direct the condensate away from the garage. You can also use the water for plants, etc.

The compressor is very quiet. The fans are not. But, not horrible though.

 

[Greatbear]

The fans sound much like a larger computer server running a medium to high workload when the heater is running normal, they are the same fans! However, if the heater is trying to combat a freezing evaporator the things will scream.

 

[mpire]

Well, it doesn't sound all that bad if you ask me.

Its supposed to arrive at the store tomorrow, not nearly as excited about installing it as I am about getting it for $65.

I am hoping that the water heater install will get me going on compressor air lines.

 

[lzenglish]

I have not read all the posts, but I did purchase one of these units 12 or so years ago used. The main reason was, that I'm all electric, and I was trying everything I could to squeeze a penny out of the source of my all electic power source. I had heard that the C.O.P. was 3 to one, and that sounded good to me verses my 1 to 1 electic HWH ratio. The units were very expensive, so I purchaseed a used one from a neighborhood that requied that they only be installed per code. The unit worked fine, but, here was my evaluation on it after a few short months. 1.) Way too many replacment moving parts to be cost effective in the long run. 2.) A couple of hot water solar panels would do the same heat gain at almost zero cost, of replacement parts verses these units. They are a little trickey in the winter, but I had a plan to duct warmer attic air since my garage is all sheet rocked in. That never happened.

Wayne

 

[mpire]

Thanks for the input.

I still haven't picked it up yet. My friend wants one too, so I figured we could pick them both up at the same time since they weigh something like 200 lbs empty.

I special ordered the water heater stand, so it should arrive in the next week or so.

I am planning out the plumbing of the new water heater. I am going to install the heat risers, then two cutoff valves, and then add a couple of T fittings so I can plumb in the old water heater in the event that the water heater starts giving me issues. I will probably just drain the old one and stick it in my storage garage just in case I need it. I can hear the wife yelling at me already if it ever has any issues.

I wonder if I can fit a shallow well pump under the water heater stand. I will have to look into pump dimensions while I have everything moved.

 

[mpire]

Picked up the water heater. The box is slightly HUGE. I didn't realize how big this thing is.

Going to have to re-think the whole air compressor location and plumbing.

 

[pop pop]

Well, the other hot water heater I was looking at is a 50 gallon unit priced around $450-500.

So its a $700 premium for this water heater. If it saves me $35 a month, then it will take me 20 months to re-coupe the expense. There is more than enough heat in my garage, that's for sure.

Plus it will keep the garage cooler, and that's a big plus.

Don't forget to include the repair costs for 20 years!

 

[brewchief]

I was at a job a few weeks ago that had one of those, didn't seem any different in size then a reg 50 gal gas. Open up the box, it may have a ton of packing in there to protect it on the boat ride from china.

 

[mpire]

Don't forget to include the repair costs for 20 years!

If this thing breaks, I will be going back to the old one. I am just going to drain it and put it in storage.

I was at a job a few weeks ago that had one of those, didn't seem any different in size then a reg 50 gal gas. Open up the box, it may have a ton of packing in there to protect it on the boat ride from china.

I saw the made in china logo when I pulled it out of the truck.

Seems really stupid that the government is basically giving me money to buy a Chinese product from an American company that is supposed to be creating jobs here and not in China. Good thing the head of GE leads the president's jobs council!

 

[walrus]

If you want a Heat Pump hot water heater, this one made in US, retrofit to existing tank. I have an earlier model and it saved me 30 bucks a month, not including the AC benefits in summer and dehumidification of my basement.
http://www.nyle.com/water-heating/geyser-r/

This one is easy to install, just plugs in wall outlet and some easy plumbing. Don't like GE because it includes tank, what happens when tank leaks?

 

[mpire]

The water heater has to be on the approved energystar list of you can't get any government cheeze.

Apparently the government doesn't want us to support american workers.

AirGenerate ATI1266 66 4.5 240 2.2 1950 60 6 6 10/7/2009 Yes 10/7/2009
AirGenerate ATI50 50 5 220 2.4 1837 60 10 10 Yes 12/16/2010
AirGenerate ATI66 66 5 220 2.4 1830 75 10 10 Yes 12/16/2010
American HPE10260H045DV 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
American HPE10280H045DV 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010
A.O. Smith PHPT-60 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
A.O. Smith PHPT-80 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010
Bosch HP 200-1 E AI-F 50 64.5 22.5 4.5 240 2.2 1996 58 10 10 6/1/2011 Yes 5/25/2011
Bosch
HP 200-1 E AI-F
S3100 50 2.2 10 10/3/2011 Yes 1/18/2011
Eco-Hybrid WH50GM 50 2.2 6 5/15/2011 Yes 4/29/2011
GE GEH50DEED** 50 59.5 22.3 4.5 240 2.4 65 10 10 3/14/2012 Yes 1/17/2012
GE GEH50DNSR*** 50 60.5 21.8 4.5 240 2.4 1856 63 10 10 8/24/2009 Yes 8/24/2009
GE GEH50DXSR*** 50 60.5 21.8 4.5 240 2.4 1856 63 10 10 8/24/2009 Yes 8/24/2009
HTP HPW-50-6 50 2.2 6 5/15/2011 Yes 4/29/2011
Kenmore 153.32116 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 12 12 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
Kenmore 153.32118 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 12 12 8/3/2010 Yes 8/3/2010
Midea
RSJ-15/190RDN3-
C 50 2.2 10 5/20/2011 Yes 4/15/2011
Reliance 10 60 DHPT 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
Reliance 10 80 DHPT 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010
Rheem HP40RH 40 4 240 2.0 2195 56 10 10 9/17/2010 Yes 9/17/2010
Rheem HP50RH 50 75.5 21 4 240 2.0 2195 67 10 10 9/3/2009 Yes 9/3/2009
Rheem EcoSense HP40RUES 40 4 240 2.0 2195 56 10 10 9/17/2010 Yes 9/17/2010
Rheem EcoSense HP50ES 50 75.5 21 4 240 2.0 2195 67 10 10 9/3/2009 Yes 9/3/2009
Richmond HP40RM 40 4 240 2.0 2195 56 10 10 9/17/2010 Yes 9/17/2010
Richmond HP50RM 50 75.5 21 4 240 2.0 2195 67 10 10 9/3/2009 Yes 9/3/2009
Ruud HP40RU 40 4 240 2.0 2195 56 10 10 9/17/2010 Yes 9/17/2010
Ruud HP50RU 50 75.5 21 4 240 2.0 2195 67 10 10 9/3/2009 Yes 9/3/2009
State EPX 60 DHPT 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
State EPX 80 DHPT 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010
Stiebel Eltron ACCELERA 300 80 2.2 240 2.5 1739 78 10 10 9/8/2009 Yes 9/8/2009
USCraftmaster HPE2K60HD045V 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
USCraftmaster
HPE2K80HD045V
(USC) 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010
USI Green Energy
Green Star
WH1350 50 5 220 2.4 1837 60 10 10 Yes 4/15/2011
USI Green Energy
Green Star
WH1360 65 5 220 2.4 1830 75 10 10 1/6/2010 Yes 1/6/2010
Whirlpool HPE2K60HD045V 60 4.5 240 2.3 1885 68 10 10 8/10/2010 Yes 8/10/2010
Whirlpool
HPE2K80HD045V
(WP) 80 4.5 240 2.3 1885 84 10 10 3/25/2010 Yes 3/5/2010

http://downloads.energystar.gov/bi/qplist/Heat%20Pump%20Water%20Heaters%20Product%20List.pdf?962c-456c

 

[mpire]

Notice the Air Generate units are the ones that come with tanks.

AirGenerate ATI1266 66 4.5 240 2.2 1950 60 6 6 10/7/2009 Yes 10/7/2009
AirGenerate ATI50 50 5 220 2.4 1837 60 10 10 Yes 12/16/2010
AirGenerate ATI66 66 5 220 2.4 1830 75 10 10 Yes 12/16/2010

You can get the air tap unit, but its not qualified for the energy credit.

 

[mpire]

I was at lowes picking up valves and some PVC pipe to setup the new water heater and they have a brand new GE geospring water heater on display.

So now I am trying to figure out what the differences are. The one I have retails for $1500, but the new ones retail for $1200. Looks like a smaller a/c unit, but its more integrated.

I did learn that the tank is fiberglass instead of steel, so that is encouraging as maybe that will help it last longer. Or maybe not?

Here is the comparison between the new and old units.

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=Compare&sku=GEH50DEEDSR&sku=GEH50DNSRSA

This water heater is made in USA, so that also a big difference.

 

[BADSIX]

if i lived were the sun was out 90% of the time i would go solar. i had a solar- hart at my old house and it worked perfect for life on the oregon coast, about 40 - 50 % sun.

 

[mpire]

if i lived were the sun was out 90% of the time i would go solar. i had a solar- hart at my old house and it worked perfect for life on the oregon coast, about 40 - 50 % sun.

Solar water heaters work great, cost $4000 installed, and do not cool my garage.

Heat pump water heaters also work, cost me $65 installed, and cool my garage.

 

[mpire]

Here is the next question. Do I go with the brass adapter for the CPVC or just stick with all CPVC for connecting to the water heater?

[/IMG]

 

[mpire]

I have made absolutely no progress because I can't lift the new water heater on my own.

I did, however, get the garage cleaned up, charge up the garage queen's battery, sweep out the garage, and laid out all the stuff to get started on the water heater install.

Here is my supply of cPVC connectors and pieces. Haven't found my pipe cutters yet. Must be in the other sprinkler bin.

Here is the old water heater... I can't disconnect it and not get the new water heater installed because the wife will throw a fit if she can't take a shower.

Yet another picture of the unboxed water heater...

Here is my heavy duty water heater stand. I am going to put some spacers on it and then also anchor it into the wall.

If I can get a friend help me pick the water heater up and put it on the stand then I will hopefully get it installed soon.

 

[mpire]

Well, I bribed a friend of mine to assist with the manual labor.

He should be over after work.

I guess its time to actually get this done.

Totally forgot I didn't epoxy under the old water heater. This is going to be a big aesthetic problem for me.

 

[toyotadriver]

Don't use CPVC!!!

Other than that, looks like you have a good plan.

 

[mpire]

Too late...

Water heater is installed, waiting on it to get up to temp so I can take a hot shower.

I still have to run the various drain lines etc, but I have everything sealed up for now. Will run the pressure over flow and hot water overflow lines tomorrow or the weekend when I get around to it.

 

[mpire]

Well, the damned screw fittings are leaking.

Apparently teflon tape isn't doing it.

So I get to re-do the valves.

I am going to have to get some liquid teflon stuff and give that a go.

 

[toyotadriver]

I cringe every time I see CPVC!! It gets brittle over time especially when exposed to UV rays.

But, SUPER nice looking install!! Very neat!! Nice job!!

 

[mpire]

I cringe every time I see CPVC!! It gets brittle over time especially when exposed to UV rays.

The 12 year old CPVC is brittle, I sharpened up my pvc pipe cutters and they only get in about a quarter of an inch before the pipe just snaps the rest of the way off.

The new CPVC cuts cleanly.

But, SUPER nice looking install!! Very neat!! Nice job!!

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I am off to the hardware store to get some more supplies to try and stop the leaks.

 

[toyotadriver]

Here's my install. Excuse the other mess.

 

[mpire]

Well, I cut all my pretty lines apart and removed the valves.

Added some goop my A/C guy recommended called rectorseal 5. It seems to be doing the job. I will check it again in the morning.

However, I failed to properly glue one of the lines, and so it popped off and hosed me down pretty well.

Anyways, that being said, I have it all back together and it appears to be leak free.

On an related note, the ****** on the steel lines coming out of the tank appears to be RUSTING! After less than 24 hours of use, I have rust!

At this rate the whole water heater will rust away in about a week. I guess we will wait and see.

I still haven't setup the drains though.

I have to have 3 drains for the system.

1) Temp overflow on the side of the water heater.
2) Pressure overflow 75psi on the hot water line.
3) Condensation drain.

So I have to get that mess of pipes hooked all together so I can get it all connected to the same line running through the wall to the outside of the garage.

 

[mpire]

I finished the work stuff earlier than expected, so I went ahead and cut the drain lines.

So out of the main tank valve, then T in the condensate drain, then further down and add the hot water pressure release line, then finally around the base and through the wall.

I also put a little pipe cement on the clear liquid line and stuck it into a 1/2 inch CPVC street elbow and that seems to fit just perfect.

So now all I need to do is glue these pieces together and get a few trim pieces for the wall and call it done.

 

[toyotadriver]

I installed mine last Oct and it hasn't rusted away yet!! I don't think you need to worry about that!!

 

[Zick]

On an related note, the ****** on the steel lines coming out of the tank appears to be RUSTING! After less than 24 hours of use, I have rust!

Well what do you expect for $65, you get what you pay for.















j/k, looks pretty good.

 

[mpire]

So I pulled the anode rod out of the old water heater.

Its not looking too good.

I will probably need a new one of those if I have to put it back in service.

 

[mpire]

My credit is already on the books!

And gotta love that 865 KWH!