Heat Tape question

[L5wolvesf]

Our laundry machines are in the unheated garage. Until the last few years it wasn’t a problem with the pipes just being insulated. Now it is, we are getting hard freezes, so I need to do a heat tape set up.

My experience is from when I worked in the mountains of Colorado one winter. When we heat taped the hot tub supply lines we had a tight “budget” so to get as much as possible from each length we put them on the underside of the pipe – the thought was heat rises. The foam insulation tubes went over the top of the pipe to keep heat in / cold out. It all worked well – no more burst pipes at 2 AM. Now, my gf, who lived back east, thinks the tape should be wrapped around the pipes. I understand that would work too.

My question here is: which is “best”? And, can / should insulation completely wrap around the pipe and the heat tap?

Thank you,

FWIW, the machines will eventually come inside when we do the planned remodel here.

 

[The Cobbler]

no need to wrap the heat tape around the pipes , unless you're very cold . but in AZ just a single row would suffice as long as you insulate. Yes, insulate total pipe , keeps any heat in .
most of the premade tapes are not to be overlapped. just an FYI.
I have had good luck with bulk self regulating tape, you can cut it to any lenght & usually overlap it if needed

 

[58Yeoman]

All the heat tapes I've put on say to run straight line only, not wrapped.

 

[samss]

+1 What Cobbler said.
You may still have a problem with the machines water valves cracking/bursting. May sound crazy, but what about building a big box out of blue foam board to cover the entire machine and hoses. I'm just thinking along the lines of the outdoor faucet covers.

 

[BillK]

Have you actually had the pipes freeze up ? I have a deep sink I installed in my unheated attached garage and I have never had it freeze. I would think if anything our temps here would be colder than yours ?

It is on the wall adjoining the house so that might make a difference.

Have you actually put a thermometer out there during a cold spell to see how cold it is in the garage ? I have one in mine and I have never seen it below freezing even on 5 degree outside temps.

 

[58Yeoman]

I had installed more plastic piping in my shop this fall when I installed a water heater. The tape mfr. suggested wrapping any plastic pipe in aluminum foil before installed the heat tape.

 

[L5wolvesf]

no need to wrap the heat tape around the pipes , unless you're very cold . but in AZ just a single row would suffice as long as you insulate. Yes, insulate total pipe , keeps any heat in .
most of the premade tapes are not to be overlapped. just an FYI.
I have had good luck with bulk self regulating tape, you can cut it to any lenght & usually overlap it if needed

All the heat tapes I've put on say to run straight line only, not wrapped.

Thank you this is what I thought the best way is.

I had installed more plastic piping in my shop this fall when I installed a water heater. The tape mfr. suggested wrapping any plastic pipe in aluminum foil before installed the heat tape.

Maybe to conduct the heat better?

 

[L5wolvesf]

+1 What Cobbler said.
You may still have a problem with the machines water valves cracking/bursting. May sound crazy, but what about building a big box out of blue foam board to cover the entire machine and hoses. I'm just thinking along the lines of the outdoor faucet covers.

Actually, that is what happened a couple years ago – everything on that side of the garage was soaked. Eventually replaced the machine (it was old and slow and not worth fixing). I put more insulation on the pipes then, put on steel braided hoses and added insulation around the water inlet/valve.

The valve on the current washer is good but the pipes were not flowing until they warmed up. I get your idea about the box. Part of the problem here may be the pipes are against the block wall. I suspect the wall gets very cold and keeps the pipes cold. I may have to remount them so they don’t touch the wall. Thanks samss

 

[L5wolvesf]

Have you actually had the pipes freeze up ? I have a deep sink I installed in my unheated attached garage and I have never had it freeze. I would think if anything our temps here would be colder than yours ?

It is on the wall adjoining the house so that might make a difference.

Have you actually put a thermometer out there during a cold spell to see how cold it is in the garage ? I have one in mine and I have never seen it below freezing even on 5 degree outside temps.

Yes the pipes freeze up, not to the point of breaking, but if we take a hair dryer to them the water will start to flow. The quick and dirty temporary heat tape job I did has kept things flowing.

I agree your temps are likely colder and for longer. But I am in the northern part of AZ, which is not like Phoenix or Tucson. We don’t get freezes a lot but the last few years it’s been getting colder and for more days in a row.

I haven’t put a thermometer in the garage, but outside temps overnight do occasionally get into the teens and single digits. A couple years ago the inlet valve on the prior machine cracked open so that convinced me.

 

[Bretny]

Heat tape to supply a washer in a unheated space? Why? Wont the washer freeze.

 

[nh_yota]

I think the only reason why people wrap heat tape around the pipe is because they only need it for a short length of pipe (such as under a sink or behind an access panel) so they wrap it to deal with the excess length.

And they don't read instructions.

 

[nh_yota]

Heat tape to supply a washer in a unheated space? Why? Wont the washer freeze.

It depends on the setup. If the pipes are attached to a cold wall they may freeze before the room gets cold enough to freeze the washer.

 

[Angelfire]

+1 What Cobbler said.
You may still have a problem with the machines water valves cracking/bursting. May sound crazy, but what about building a big box out of blue foam board to cover the entire machine and hoses. I'm just thinking along the lines of the outdoor faucet covers.

I have a washer set up in an unheated shed in Northern NM where temps can get down to -50F. I have found that similar to the above comment, the issue is going to be inside the washer itself. I drain my whole water system when I leave the place in the winters but found there was still a lot of water inside the washer that ultimately caused me problems one year. Unless you are willing to heat tape everything inside the washer, I'm not sure it's going to buy you much.

Now, I drain everything, and put some RV antifreeze (non toxic stuff) in the washer, run it on a quick rinse cycle just to get the antifreeze around in the plumbing and then leave it. For something used daily, this is probably not feasible. But it's worked for me over the last several years.

Cheers.

 

[L5wolvesf]

It depends on the setup. If the pipes are attached to a cold wall they may freeze before the room gets cold enough to freeze the washer.

That does seem to be part of my problem.

I have a washer set up in an unheated shed in Northern NM where temps can get down to -50F. I have found that similar to the above comment, the issue is going to be inside the washer itself. I drain my whole water system when I leave the place in the winters but found there was still a lot of water inside the washer that ultimately caused me problems one year. Unless you are willing to heat tape everything inside the washer, I'm not sure it's going to buy you much.

Now, I drain everything, and put some RV antifreeze (non toxic stuff) in the washer, run it on a quick rinse cycle just to get the antifreeze around in the plumbing and then leave it. For something used daily, this is probably not feasible. But it's worked for me over the last several years.

Cheers.

Agreed, one of the issues is water inside the washer itself. I talked to a local repair guy today; he figured the pump had not unfroze when we started the washer. However, we got lucky and ran a load today and it works fine. Now I just want to prevent it from happening again. The washer gets used a couple times a week so I’ll have to figure out how to protect the pump along with the pipes. Thank you

 

[cdestuck]

That does seem to be part of my problem.



Agreed, one of the issues is water inside the washer itself. I talked to a local repair guy today; he figured the pump had not unfroze when we started the washer. However, we got lucky and ran a load today and it works fine. Now I just want to prevent it from happening again. The washer gets used a couple times a week so I’ll have to figure out how to protect the pump along with the pipes. Thank you

Perhaps a incondensent light bulb in the cavity under the washer will keep pump and hoses from freezing

 

[JerryB]

Our community water system (wells, treatment, storage & distribution pumps) is at the lowest (and therefore coldest) point on the property. Freezing pipes at the plant site (which cut off the water to the 40 or so houses) were common during the winter season. Although some of the more exposed pipes were insulated (but not heated), this only made the problem worse, as we had to wait for the pipe to thaw, or remove the insulation to apply a heat gun to to get things thawed.

Several years ago we put Easy Heat (brand) pipe heaters on all the exposed pipes. Most of these pipes are 2" Sched. 80 PVC. The heaters are placed on the bottom of the pipe (per instructions) with the included thermostatic controller at the coldest (most exposed) point. We use the appropriate size black insulation in combination with black zip ties and industrial tape to hold both the heater tape and the insulation. We added a few 110VAC dedicated circuits to power the newly heated / insulated pipes.

This installation was done once, and with only minor exceptions, has performed perfectly.

We have had absolutely no freezing or other failures. Just added system reliability and less work for those of us who maintain the system.

 

[ford33]

If you use the washer so frequently, why not add a 240 vac electric or gas heater with thermostat to the garage space? You likely have electric or gas dryer. Build a temporary wall around the appliances and turn the heat on. It can't be much to heat a small space to 40 F for the couple months of cold weather in AZ.

 

[KANSASBOY]

https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/pipe-tracing/easyheat-freeze-free-cable
I had really good luck this type

 

[Joe69]

Perhaps a incondensent light bulb in the cavity under the washer will keep pump and hoses from freezing

My thoughts exactly. I've used incandescent bulbs for this type of thing in the past. Maybe fashion a makeshift tent around the washer to hold some heat in.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is the garage insulated ? Why not just buy a electric oil filled radiator style heater to keep the entire garage warm ?

 

[L5wolvesf]

Perhaps a incondensent light bulb in the cavity under the washer will keep pump and hoses from freezing

My thoughts exactly. I've used incandescent bulbs for this type of thing in the past. Maybe fashion a makeshift tent around the washer to hold some heat in.

I know people have used incandescent bulbs to keep things warm. I have one in our pump house that can keep things warm. But having a bulb in the washer (wet with moving parts) feels funny – maybe I’m being too cautious.

But, that got me thinking about an appliance bulb (smaller size) so maybe. I’m going to see if I can put a wrap of heat tape around the washer pump first. I’ll know better about access, it “should” have a removable back panel, when I move the washer when I get to work on it and the pipes.

If you use the washer so frequently, why not add a 240 vac electric or gas heater with thermostat to the garage space? You likely have electric or gas dryer. Build a temporary wall around the appliances and turn the heat on. It can't be much to heat a small space to 40 F for the couple months of cold weather in AZ.

The layout of where the washer and dryer are won’t allow for a wall, things are a bit tight there with my tool boxes being across the small “aisle”. I’m going to see about possibly putting a reflective and or moving blanket (or 3) over it to keep some heat in, in addition to maybe a bulb.

Is the garage insulated ? Why not just buy a electric oil filled radiator style heater to keep the entire garage warm ?

It’s not completely insulated at this point, but I’m working on it.

Our community water system (wells, treatment, storage & distribution pumps) is at the lowest (and therefore coldest) point on the property. Freezing pipes at the plant site (which cut off the water to the 40 or so houses) were common during the winter season. Although some of the more exposed pipes were insulated (but not heated), this only made the problem worse, as we had to wait for the pipe to thaw, or remove the insulation to apply a heat gun to to get things thawed.

Several years ago we put Easy Heat (brand) pipe heaters on all the exposed pipes. Most of these pipes are 2" Sched. 80 PVC. The heaters are placed on the bottom of the pipe (per instructions) with the included thermostatic controller at the coldest (most exposed) point. We use the appropriate size black insulation in combination with black zip ties and industrial tape to hold both the heater tape and the insulation. We added a few 110VAC dedicated circuits to power the newly heated / insulated pipes.

This installation was done once, and with only minor exceptions, has performed perfectly.

We have had absolutely no freezing or other failures. Just added system reliability and less work for those of us who maintain the system.

I am going with heat cables, the types you described, but when I went to Home Depot (closest store) they were out and nothing on order. I got one at ACE; they carry a better variety of things here,



Thank you all for the ideas etc.