Heated all the time vs. only on the weekends?

[gumbudah]

Does anyone have any hard data on this one?
So I can see maybe two easy ways to do it. first check you gas meter, run your setup for maybe three days. write down the beginning time, gas meter reading, end time, and end gas meter reading. run the next three days trying it by turning the heat way down taking readings before and after.
Second would be adding some electronics. A recording induction ammeter would do the trick. clamp it on, note date and time. Run for 3 days turning the heat down, check readings, run for another three days without turning the heat down. You'd need to count the number of times the heater comes on, figure out how long the startup sequence is, and subtract the number of starts times startup time from the total duration for each method. This would give a total runtime which if you are running a fixed heat source (non modulating) should be a direct relationship to the quantity of gas used.

I been planning on doing something like this, but havn't made the time to get it done also, my wife now works from home so theres someone here every day... however she'll be out of town for quite a while so I should have an opportunity to check the readings using metod 1.

 

[lucky3]

A friend of mine said it best when this same topic came up on another forum:

The problem with ALL heat --- or cooling for that matter --- is the energy used to get EVERYTHING in the space up to temp. So think of that slab as a giant ice cube... if it's cold - it takes a lot to heat it up... ditto that giant tool box... the cars etc. They're all just big heat sinks.

Better and cheaper in the long run to get that stuff up to temp and leave it there, rather than on and off. Regardless of how you do that....

Set the heater at 60* and just let it go -- you'll find it runs far less often and the space will be ready to go when you are.

I don't agree. Its been below zero at night and single digits during the day. My garage stays about 30-35degrees. It takes about 15min to get to 65degrees. I have a programable thermostat and it tells me how long the heater runs. I kept it at 45 over night and the whole next day and it ran a total of 7hrs out of about 24hrs. I have propane and that would get really really exspensive so anyone that says its cheaper to keep the garage heated at 40 untill there working on it is crazy. When i work in my garage i go turn the heater on and in 15min its upto 65 and ready to work in. I can work all day and the heater only runs a couple hrs. So it is cheaper to not run your heater all the time. 15min to get the garage up to temp is cheaper then running it at least 7hrs a day just to keep it 45.

 

[Notch1988]

I bought a new house this summer and its the first time ive owned a garage so i have been debating this with myself for some time. I talked to everyone that would listen to me and the general consensus seems to be keep it low, say 45f and crank it up when yer out there. I installed a digital programmable stat and it keeps a steady 45f until 20 minutes before the wife goes out to get into her car and head to work. It ramps up a few degrees so it is real comfy for her then drops back to 45 till the next morn. When i go out to work in the evening it is warm in under 30 minutes so i find the recovery time great. I turned it off for a week while i was gone and then cranked it up to do some work one morning and it felt like the floor was sucking the heat out of my feet for about 2 hours.

My wife is just happy that she doesn't have to scrape ice and snow off the car so I keep the garage at 8C all the time. Turning it up for 20 minutes beforehand wouldn't make the inside of the car any warmer so I don't see the point other than making the garage feel a little warmer when walking into it.

 

[Notch1988]

x2 here. I don't want my paints, fillers and cars to freeze. My RESZNOR heater only takes 2-3 minutes to bring the shop (1000 sq ft) up to working temp, about 56F.

Agree... 13C/14C is the perfect t-shirt working temp in my garage.

 

[KenS]

I kept it at 45 over night and the whole next day and it ran a total of 7hrs out of about 24hrs.5.

Sounds like your insulation leaves something to be desired.

 

[lucky3]

Sounds like your insulation leaves something to be desired.

My garage is insulated very well. IF it wasn't it wouldn't stay 30-35 when the weather is below zero at night and in the single digits during the day. ALso my garage is out of the open with nothing around it. My garage is behind the house. How often does your house heater turn on and off? Probably more then you think. Most thermostats don't tell you how long your furnace has run.

 

[lucky3]

Also a lot of you guys that heat your garages all the time are saying it costs you $80-100 per month. THats a lot of $ just so you can go into your garage and have it take alittle less time to warm to a comfortable temp. I can see doing this if your in there working everyday for several hrs. I"m restoring my car but i'm not out there everyday so i believe its not worth the money. I only go through about $100 a yr in lp and i'm in the garage quite a bit working on the car.

 

[Dan_inthewind]

I am able to plan ahead for most of my garage use. Doing such and such a job so dont park in the garage to keep it dry and so on. It is 24 X 24 and has 10' ceiling. Cement slab floor, keep paint and what not in there and do want want any freezing. And this is Canada,northern Ontario, been a good winter so far but temps go up and down like our dollar versus the US dollar. Outside runs -20C for weeks then -5,no ryhme or reason to ur weather. I keep the shop at 45F as a constant and crank it up when I want to do any thing. I pay a set fee for natural gas year round with a balancing bill ever 4 months or so. I see no difference in heating my shop at a constant and cranking it up when I want it warmer. My shop is well built and well insulated,can't believe it should cost much to keep it cosy and it doesnt.

 

[Steve in Mi]

GFA, 63 to 65 degrees 24/7. Two story 28' X 48' well insulated heats for under $150. for the entire Winter here in mid Mi.. Cement floor is 61 - 62 except the ~outer foot (more in front of doors), upstairs floor is ~ 63 - 65.

Annual heat bill in 99 was $90. about 50 cents per heat day. The increase is due to rising natural gas/fuel cost.

I don't park vehicles in my shop so it is only the man doors that get opened in the Winter. It's warm, comfy and ready for use whenever I wish. I really enjoy my shop, Summer and Winter.

 

[logical]

It's really very basic science, no experiments are needed. It just plain uses more energy to keep it warm all the time than it does to warm it up only when used. No matter how many times you use the term "thermal mass" in a post suggesting otherwise, it just isn't so.

keeping it at 40 or 50 F has many advantages: faster warm up, more general comfort, warmer cars in the morning, less condensation, no freezing of things stored there, etc., but it just plain costs more over the span of a winter.

That being said, I keep my thermostat on 40-ish since I have a sink and lots of car waxes and stuff out there. My attached 3-car is well insulated so the heater never kicks on most days. I have a 75,000 BTU gas heater so it heats up in no time flat.

 

[mad57]

My insulated pole barn stays at 40 with no heat even when its 17 outside so i dont heat until i need it than i just use diesel fired heater for a quick blast in 5 min its 85 than seems good for a couple of hours.

 

[Boiler]

IMO it is worth heating a little all the time or not heating ever, just to avoid condensation. I had a table saw for 3 years in an unheated garage, was in great shape. Sold it to my brother in law and in 2 weeks it was a rusty mess. Why? Condensation from going from 20 degrees to 60-70 degrees.

When I bring tools into the house in the winter, they sweat all over the place. If I store them in the semi-heated (45-50 degree) laundry room and bring them in, they do not sweat.

So would I heat the garage to 45 or 50 for $100 a month? You bet your *** I would. Less freezing my nuts off working out there daily, less condensation / corrosion, no more wax / paint freezing, warmed car (for the wife...). Thats a lot of upside. When I put in heat I plan on setting the temp to about 45 and then having it climb to 60 at about 8pm for about 6 hrs and then drop back down. We've had such a cold winter already that I can't stand it out there. I brought all of my sale tools into the laundry room and work on them in the kitchen now. Won't be long and my wife will INSIST I finish off the garage. =P

 

[sledzz]

I keep mine at 50 then turn it it to 65 or so Friday - Sunday and some weeknights. Only takes a few minutes to get it comfortable.

 

[KenS]

It's really very basic science, no experiments are needed. It just plain uses more energy to keep it warm all the time than it does to warm it up only when used. No matter how many times you use the term "thermal mass" in a post suggesting otherwise, it just isn't so.

In your world of science can we assume your car does not have a flywheel?

 

[FlameOut]

I usually keep mine a little below 50, around 45, then about an hour before I plan on going out working in there, I turn it up to around 55. Once I'm out there, I usually put it on 60 and that's where it stays while I'm there. Any higher it seems to hot once I start working.

I'm using a 45000 BTU natural gas heater and my garage is insulated, 28 x 34

 

[SMLDONZI]

50 seems to be the magic temperature and that is indeed what I keep mine at to avoid condensation and keep the plumbing safe. Well insulated, so no big deal. Only takes a few minutes to get it up to 60-65 for comfortable beer drinking. Wish my house was as economical to heat.

 

[henrysgarage]

I keep my 24X 50 at 45* from 10PM to 9AM and then it goes to 60* all day. If I am going away for a few days or longer and I remember to I will set the thermostat to stay at 45*. I have paint, chemicals and machineshop equipment in the building so I do not want it to freeze.

 

[rwhite692]

In your world of science can we assume your car does not have a flywheel?

^^^^LOL, exactly!

 

[82_454_shorty]

I keep mine at 50 then turn it it to 65 or so Friday - Sunday and some weeknights. Only takes a few minutes to get it comfortable.

Ditto.

 

[bill9860]

Keep my 26x28 detached at 50 24/7 except weekends when I am in it. Then 65

 

[Chetter]

I plan ahead for it and the costs run me about 300-350.00 for the entire heating season for the garage, cheap, not really, but for the roughly 5 mos I do heat it, it averages out to about 60-65 a month. My cost would be considerably less if my wife and I weren't going in and out a couple of times a day each, so the heater has to run to take care of the cold air we let in through that 16x8' door. I like not having my hot rod and my tools wet and rusty or spotted billet aluminum and it's also nice getting into a vehicle that is not covered in snow and for the most part, dry by morning. I am by no means rich and it is a sacrafice to have the money to heat it and so far it has worked out.

 

[Slowboat]

In your world of science can we assume your car does not have a flywheel?

Do you leave your car running all the time to keep the flywheel moving? That is what your logic is dictating. It takes less energy to start the car each time you want the flywheel to move, rather than keeping the car idling all the time.

You could also go a bit further - do you set your idle to 3000 rpm so it's "easier" to get to 5000 rpm?

Now obviously there are times when it's more efficient (please don't think about other variables specific to a car (starter wear and tear, etc) to leave your car idling rather than turn it off - but it isn't that often - say under 30 seconds or so. It's the same principle with heating your house.

 

[fattogatto]

It's really very basic science, no experiments are needed. It just plain uses more energy to keep it warm all the time than it does to warm it up only when used.

Very misleading statement. You are talking about both ends of a spectrum. Are you suggesting the energy use per degree rise from one end of the spectrum to the other is linear? I doubt that. The energy used per degree rise will vary depending on the start temperature and the desired tempeature and the outside air temperature versus insulation factor. Yes, trials are needed to be accurate.

 

[logical]

Interesting...I've learned that heat not only has memory but also momentum.

 

[Kev442]

It seems some have no idea that the volume of data on set back thermostats is sound and proven. Leaving anything set at a higher temperature 24/7 vs letting it go low and heating when needed will consume more energy.
When I took over my commercial building the average dead of winter utility bill was $1-1200 per month. I installed setback thermostats and actually over ride them for 4 day holidays to sit at 58 for those 4 days. 7 years later and last months utility bill was $800. Not only is it 20-33% less, there has probably been enough increases in utility rates that it is 50% less energy consumed than 7 years ago. Well worth a little chill in the morning.

 

[KenS]

It's the same principle with heating your house.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about heating garages.

 

[KenS]

Interesting...I've learned that heat not only has memory but also momentum.

Indeed, except at below −459.67°F at which temperature entropy reaches its minimum value.

I never let my garage get that cold.

 

[lucky3]

IMO it is worth heating a little all the time or not heating ever, just to avoid condensation. I had a table saw for 3 years in an unheated garage, was in great shape. Sold it to my brother in law and in 2 weeks it was a rusty mess. Why? Condensation from going from 20 degrees to 60-70 degrees.

When I bring tools into the house in the winter, they sweat all over the place. If I store them in the semi-heated (45-50 degree) laundry room and bring them in, they do not sweat.

So would I heat the garage to 45 or 50 for $100 a month? You bet your *** I would. Less freezing my nuts off working out there daily, less condensation / corrosion, no more wax / paint freezing, warmed car (for the wife...). Thats a lot of upside. When I put in heat I plan on setting the temp to about 45 and then having it climb to 60 at about 8pm for about 6 hrs and then drop back down. We've had such a cold winter already that I can't stand it out there. I brought all of my sale tools into the laundry room and work on them in the kitchen now. Won't be long and my wife will INSIST I finish off the garage. =P

Funny but i've been turning my heat on and off for 7yrs now and i never have any condensation on any of my equipment or tools. I would say the ones that have major condensation have other problems. I just checked my garage and its 33 in there and -2 outside. When i go work out there i turn the heater onto 65 then after i'm out there for about 15min i start turning it down to 55 where its nice and comfortable to work. LIke i said i never have any condensation. I've never had rust on my tools, car or any part of my chevelle from turning the heat on and off.

 

[darkk]

Since we use our small garage (22X24) for storge of motorcycles etc. We heat it all the time. Stays at about 50deg. Keeps the moisture off the chrome stuff.

 

[BoostAddiction]

The Garagenous Zone is well-insulated, and stays about 20-30 degrees warmer than the outside temp, with no additional heating.

This morning, the outside temp was 35, inside was 51, a typical delta for my garage. Even when it gets into the teens for a day or two, the garage stays relatively warm, probably because of the massive hysteresis in the slab.

This year, even with a few days in the teens, the garage interior hasn't dropped below 48. All this, even when the garage doors face the brunt of the winter winds.

This makes warming it up to 65 or 70 a relatively quick thing.

See link in sig for a pic of the mini-split I use to heat and cool the garage when I am in it working in extreme temps.

 

[dirttracker18]

In floor heating so it has to be on all the time. At 30 X 36 with 12 foot walls, a cathedral ceiling and 12 X 12 door it is not cheap to heat. In a cold Jan month I can spend up to $250 for the month. That being said Oct, Nov, Mar and Apr are relatively cheap to heat. Like others I average out to about $100 a month for "cold' months. this year I saw no increase for heating in Oct and almost nothing for Nov.

As for the arguement on heating or not, why is it that when people argue their sie some will not address certain points of others arguement? just through out numbers?

I have seen some here say it takes an hour to heat up to 65 on a cold day from no heat. A furnance/heater running for an hour straight cannot be cheap compared to keeping the garage a constant temp. As well, after you reach 65 (or whatever your favorite temp is) for air temp, how often does that heater have to come back on to keep that up with a cold slab, toolbox, etc. sucking up the heat?

I am not arguing either way just some questions that I thought of while reading some posts.

For me, heated always, if it was FA I would turn it way down as my use is hit and miss. Once I had the heated garage I could never walk back in and grab cold tools or work near or on the cold floor. Prior to the in floor I had a garage that was FA NG and was spoiled so no going back for me.

My next step is to go geo thermal for the house and garage then heating costs should be a none issue. That will be another 5 to 10 years in the making though.

 

[dipper]

I don't, i turn it on only when i'm out there. I have my chevelle and nova out there and all my tools and never have a problem with condisation, but my garage is well insulated.

that is what i do too. With the natural gas costs these days, i can't see a reason to keep it at 50 all the time, especially if you are only going out there jonly on weekends.

Not sure what the inside temp is before i turn on my heater, but it takes about 15-20 minutes to get the temp up to the point i only need a t-shirt.
No problems with rust or condensation.

 

[Chetter]

There's one more thing I will say or ask, of those of you who only turn it when you go out to work in the garage, do you have your daily driver as well as your wife's car parked in there and then have to open the overhead door to go in and out several times a day as I do every day or does your garage only have your toys in it? I will go out in the evenings if our cars had alot of snow up in the wheel wells after we come home and they melt off so that I can vac up the melted water. In doing so, my floor and the cars will be for the most part dry by morning with my heater set at 48*. When I didn't heat the garage, the cars would for the most part melt off, but would never get dry and if I have a week of really bitterly cold temps the garage would get down to about 30* and that was as low as mine would get with no heat and extended period of bitter cold temps. Then I would see the chrome starting show signs of rust as well as the billet aluminum showing signs of condensation and like others have said, I hate grabbing a really cold wrench to work on something. This has been a really interesting thread to say the least.

 

[GMCAMARO]

My garage is 35 x 35. I heat the garage only when I am out there. When the garage does get to 64 or 65, there is still no moisture to be found. I and the garage and everything in it, are in Massachusetts. I understand what is being said. I am out heating the garage everyday, for 6 or 7 hours, yet no condensation. Also every tool I pickup after an hour or so of being at the set temperature is still very cold, unless exposed to a bright light.
The garage houses only our children, most call them projects and toys.

 

[HemiRambler]

There's ALWAYS gonna be several shades of grey.

One time I stopped at this fella's place he would comment how super efficient his radiant unit was compared to my forced air. He'd tell me how he noticed while at my place the furnace would cycle on every so often, but his unit would NEVER EVER kick on. The pilot light itself would provide enough heat & that was all he needed.
I sorta chuckled when one time there I noticed that the ceiling was soaked dripping with condensation. Yeah apparently he didn't know that moisture is a by-product of burning natural gas. The next time there I noticed a large dehumidifier there - running quietly - ceiling now dry as a bone.
So bottom line - EACH style has it's Pro's and Con's - you need to decide which matter to you and go with it. In my case I chose forced air for a couple reasons: First I liked the idea that the FLAME was in the attic AWAY from the working area below. Ceiling is finished and I now felt safer should anything happen while I am not there - leaky fuel line or whatnot. Next the forced air comes up to temp very quickly - I like that. Also with the filter in there - it sure doesn't hurt to take some particulate out of the air I am breathing.
I don't open the "big" door at all during the winter - so the advantage of radiant didn't apply to me. I also have a relatively short ceiling - again not a good situation for radiant. For me the choice was quite simple.
JUST like my choice to heat it 24/7. I never stated it was cheaper than heating only when in there, but for me moisture IS a concern - it doesn't seem to bother my hand tools, but I have alot of bare metal tooling & even some measuring stuff that just plain doesn't like the moisture at all. Running minimal heat has solved that issue for me. Now that may not be a concern for everyone, but it was for me. Walking into a "warm" garage is a big nicety in my book - hard to walk away from it now. I guess I am spoiled!!!!!

 

[Chetter]

There's ALWAYS gonna be several shades of grey.

One time I stopped at this fella's place he would comment how super efficient his radiant unit was compared to my forced air. He'd tell me how he noticed while at my place the furnace would cycle on every so often, but his unit would NEVER EVER kick on. The pilot light itself would provide enough heat & that was all he needed.
I sorta chuckled when one time there I noticed that the ceiling was soaked dripping with condensation. Yeah apparently he didn't know that moisture is a by-product of burning natural gas. The next time there I noticed a large dehumidifier there - running quietly - ceiling now dry as a bone.
So bottom line - EACH style has it's Pro's and Con's - you need to decide which matter to you and go with it. In my case I chose forced air for a couple reasons: First I liked the idea that the FLAME was in the attic AWAY from the working area below. Ceiling is finished and I now felt safer should anything happen while I am not there - leaky fuel line or whatnot. Next the forced air comes up to temp very quickly - I like that. Also with the filter in there - it sure doesn't hurt to take some particulate out of the air I am breathing.
I don't open the "big" door at all during the winter - so the advantage of radiant didn't apply to me. I also have a relatively short ceiling - again not a good situation for radiant. For me the choice was quite simple.
JUST like my choice to heat it 24/7. I never stated it was cheaper than heating only when in there, but for me moisture IS a concern - it doesn't seem to bother my hand tools, but I have alot of bare metal tooling & even some measuring stuff that just plain doesn't like the moisture at all. Running minimal heat has solved that issue for me. Now that may not be a concern for everyone, but it was for me. Walking into a "warm" garage is a big nicety in my book - hard to walk away from it now. I guess I am spoiled!!!!!

I'm with you on that being spoiled to walking into a warm garage and I tried the ventless type heater and though they will heat, I really didn't like moisture and the smell that would develop after some running time. I have my drill press and others that are out and like you, don't want them rusting up.

 

[lucky3]

My garage only keeps my tools and extra car i use when i'm not working, as my work car sits in the garage house.