Heated Garage Illegal?

[wastntim]

So I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my 40x48' metal building to be used as a garage. I contacted the county just to confirm the requirements for the slab. I tell the county official of my plans to install radiant heat and he in turn tells me that I cannot build a heated garage. He tells me that a heated garage will never pass a "blow test".

It seems that Illinois has adopted the international energy conservation code and that my garage must meet the standards of residence and, therefore, I will never get a permit for a heated garage.

Therefore, apparently, per DuPage County, it is now illegal to have a heated garage!

Have I just walked into the some crazy liberal "green" dimension in which I no longer can have a heated garage?

Can someone please help me here as I am quickly going crazy.

 

[wastntim]

I did ask him. He said it was NOT possible.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd suggest that you do some research on the new code they adopted and find out what's up with it. I did a quick search and read through some of the stuff. Alot of it looks more like just going the extra mile and buttoning stuff up more than just "good enough."

 

[larry_g]

I did ask him. He said it was NOT possible.

Anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. If your garage has to be sealed like a thermos bottle to pass the test then so be it. What I would be asking is what options do I have? If you have solar hotwater and are off the grid then what can they say? Can you heat with a wood stove? Can you build a building with some different classification other than a garage?

Keep an eye on the building permits issued to see if any garages are being built, this should be public record. Find out how those permits are being granted. You may find that your inspector or his mother lives next to you and wants no permits issued in her neighbor hood? Had something similar happen to a friend.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[kj_mustang]

He is full of it. My garage is very tight. When I open the man door, it sounds like a vacuum. You will have to spend the money but you can meet residential code.

 

[nehog]

My metal building is very tight. No drafts ever. Making a tight building is not difficult at all. Good doors and windows, care in construction all will help make it work.

Or, add the heat after the final inspection!

 

[vwbug]

Don't even mess around with them!!! Just add it after the final inspection and save yourself the headache

 

[rsanter]

How about 'GEO' cooling?
Tell then you are putting the tubes in the slab so you can install a ground loop and in the summer rely on the cool earth to cool your shop.
Tell them for the winter you will use a portable propane heater....can't do nothing about that

Bob

 

[G_P]

They are likely trying to stop people who build a "garage" that quickly turns into an apartment that is rented out.

 

[RRP]

Ahhh Chicagoland...good luck.

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO You talk too much. Do not be "chatty" with the inspectors or permit people, zoning, etc.

> I contacted the county just to confirm the requirements for the slab.
And don't say anything else. Don't tell them "hot rods", or car work or 2 post lift or AC or anything - it's just a freakin' barn. After that discussion, I'd have it signed off with forms and re-bar, then add your tubes after the inspector leaves.

 

[malibu101]

IMHO You talk too much. Do not be "chatty" with the inspectors or permit people, zoning, etc.

> I contacted the county just to confirm the requirements for the slab.
And don't say anything else. Don't tell them "hot rods", or car work or 2 post lift or AC or anything - it's just a freakin' barn. After that discussion, I'd have it signed off with forms and re-bar, then add your tubes after the inspector leaves.

What you mentioned above is a rough inspection.
An inspector still needs to come back after completion for a final inspection.

Just make sure you can keep them hidden.

 

[pseudorealityx]

Read the code (available online for free), and just meet the requirements. It's certainly not a bad idea to have a well insulated garage.

:shrug:

Just look here at how many posts the first answer is always: "add insulation".

 

[Twiggss]

add items later.. yeah good advice. Then if it burns to the ground and the fire marshal comes to inspect what's going on good luck explaining that to him.

 

[joe_padavano]

add items later.. yeah good advice. Then if it burns to the ground and the fire marshal comes to inspect what's going on good luck explaining that to him.

Yeah, because adding pipes full of water after the inspection will DEFINITELY increase flammability...

 

[Stuart in MN]

From the FAQ section of the Illinois Energy Conservation Code:

Q: If you install some form of permanent heating (radiant, warm-air forced-air, or heat-pump) into a garage does the garage, then; have to meet the thermal envelope requirements of the IECC?
A: Yes. Once the input capacity of the heater (or unit heater) exceeds 3.4 Btu/h • ft2 (1.0 W/ ft2) of floor area, the space, in this case the garage, is considered "conditioned." Therefore, the surrounding walls, windows, doors, overhead doors, roof, and slab-edge become the boundary of the building thermal envelope and must be insulated. Note also that the air-leakage requirements of the code apply to the enclosing doors and windows as well. (2012 IECC C101.5.2 or R101.5.2, 202 – BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE, CONDITIONED SPACE)

It doesn't appear to be impossible, but you do have to meet the insulation and air leakage requirements.

http://www.dupageco.org/EDP/Building_Permitting/9652/
http://www.illinois.gov/dceo/whyillinois/KeyIndustries/Energy/Pages/IECC.aspx
http://www.illinois.gov/dceo/whyillinois/KeyIndustries/Energy/Pages/FAQ-index.aspx

 

[6768rogues]

I would build it as an unheated garage. Then when you are done and he signs off, insulate and finish it and hang a Reznor heater in there, vented through a side or back wall where he cannot see it. I like it better than radiant heat because it is lower cost to install, does not need freeze protection in a shut down, and will quickly go from unoccupied temps to occupied temps in about 15 minutes.

 

[Eriehunter]

If you want to run tubes in the slab I would just do it..... if the inspector sees it.... it's not heated space until you connect it to your system, it's there for future.

 

[ixlr8]

Where I previously lived, drains in garages are illegal. My neighbor built a 3 bay garage, put a drain in each bay, about 1/8" lower than the floor. When he poured the floor, he covered the drains with plastic and poured over them. Inspector said floor looked good and gave him okay to continue with the build. After final inspection he busted the concrete over the drains and now he has drains in every bay.
Maybe you could do something similar with the radiant tubes?

 

[Sky Chief]

This is one reason I'm glad no permits are required in the rural area I live therefore no inspectors.
On the downside, it would make me hesitant to buy a house or shop built by someone else.

 

[dstaley]

You can heat using non-permenant space heaters and cool using window air conditioners or other temporary/portable equipment without violating this code, so that's what I'm doing. Unfortunately this law forces us to use far less efficient equipment, which means we're doing exactly what the law was intended to prevent- use more $$$ & energy to heat/cool a given space. Thanks a lot, Illinois politicians!!!

 

[sands35]

How to talk to AHJs:

Q: "Do you know what time it is?"

Correct answer: "Yes"

Wrong answer: "it is 10:30 and I want to build a garage with heat in it"



Know the code book for your area. If you can argue the points, then you have a chance to make your case.

 

[Gerald O]

Have I just walked into the some crazy liberal "green" dimension in which I no longer can have a heated garage?

Welcome to the new world order.
You are lucky in that you haven't built yet.
For everyone else that already has a garage with an un-insulated slab, which is most, adding heating or cooling to their garage is now illegal just about everywhere.

 

[welder4956]

Just tell them you are only want to be able to warm the concrete so you can lay on it to work under the car and keep your feet from getting cold, not for heating the space.

 

[Notgrownup]

I thought a blow test was given in High School, before you can graduate...

 

[oilman2013]

get your final inspection done and then do what you want later i had a similar problem here the inspector wanted me to use more insulation if i was to use the workshop so i told him that when im in there thats when the heat was going too be on so he was ok with that i got my clearence to go in after that my heats been on 24/7 all winter ,,..... more than one way to skin the tom do yourself a favour and go that route its easier for you oilman 2013

 

[Hephaestus29]

Welcome to the new world order.
You are lucky in that you haven't built yet.
For everyone else that already has a garage with an un-insulated slab, which is most, adding heating or cooling to their garage is now illegal just about everywhere.

Yes it definitely sounds like some lib ****. They don't want you to be self reliant, or independent, or work for yourself, they want you to be dependent on govt. for all your needs. If you follow all these codes you'll never leave the teet.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I would build the structure and then drop a natural gas heater from the ceiling after the fact. Some of these requirements are nuts. It wouldn't hurt to talk to the actual inspector instead of whoever answered the phone.

My theory is tell them the bare minimum, have them inspect the bare minimum, and finish it the way you want once the inspection process is over. I know the rules are of safety, but sometimes they can also be restrictive just do to over lapping processes.

 

[Kevin C]

I went through this same issue when I built my shop. The problem is that garage doors don't meet the heat loss requirements. If I remember right, its a combination of size, R value and leakage.

As others pointed out, its legal to heat as long as its not a permanently installed system.

The inspectors I worked with were damn good at spotting details. I'm not sure that hiding things is a good call. They were also OK if I wanted to overbuild. That included going well past code for insulation (R23 walls, R10 slab). I explained it as future proofing my building.

Once I got my initial plans approved, I added a mechanical inspection for a future use hydronic system. All I put on the permit was adding tubes to the slab, no heat source to be installed and the system might be used with a solar heat source to be installed at a later date.

It was worth the $100 bucks to add it in and not worry. I did have to pressure test the system and schedule an inspection for it. I still haven't hooked it up. BTW, in my local a garage adds a lot less to my property tax bill than a building that is considered habitable / conditioned space.

That savings alone made it worthwhile.

 

[ambenz]

I live in Dupage County also and there is a thing called Grandfathered.
If you building was built before the code, you can NOT be considered breaking the law.
There is nothing wrong with setting up the heat for future use, I would put the tubes in and cap them off.
Or, follow the code.
Illinois need money and a good way to collect it is through fees.
Chiching, pay up, you live in Illinois!
I tend to keep quiet about my plans most times I can hide any extras...

 

[James-W]

When I built my garage here in Southeastern Wisconsin, a very nice young lady from the gas company came over to the house and she looked at the garage. She asked me several questions about how it was built and about how much insulation was in the walls and the ceiling. I told her it had R-19 in the walls and R-30 in the ceiling. She also asked about the window and the door. I told her they were insulated and she made several notes in her paperwork. Then she said everything was okay and that they would run a gas line from the street to the garage within the next few days. Then she wanted to know what type of natural gas heater I was getting, and I told her the brand and the model of the heater, where it would be located, and who would be installing it. It seems that we also have some sort of rules about heating a garage, but I don’t think the rules around here are all that stringent because at least in my case it was no problem at all.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Yeah, because adding pipes full of water after the inspection will DEFINITELY increase flammability...

No, but giving false info in your application is enough to lose your coverage.

 

[Farmall450]

Don't even mess around with them!!! Just add it after the final inspection and save yourself the headache

+1 we jut can't win in this state.

 

[Higgins]

You can heat using non-permenant space heaters and cool using window air conditioners or other temporary/portable equipment without violating this code, so that's what I'm doing. Unfortunately this law forces us to use far less efficient equipment, which means we're doing exactly what the law was intended to prevent- use more $$$ & energy to heat/cool a given space. Thanks a lot, Illinois politicians!!!

Now that really ***** big time..............

I'm in the process of looking for a ranch out in the Dixon / Oregon area preferably with a large 2nd garage or a pole barn. They are few and far between.

So I was just going to build a 2nd garage or pole barn and finish it!

Now this just changes the whole entire picture!! And on top of that, neither the realtors, or the builders know anything about this issue!

So maybe I find a house that is built on AG property, and we'll just call it a BARN.

Bummed Out!!

 

[Kevin C]

Now that really ***** big time..............

I'm in the process of looking for a ranch out in the Dixon / Oregon area preferably with a large 2nd garage or a pole barn. They are few and far between.

So I was just going to build a 2nd garage or pole barn and finish it!

Now this just changes the whole entire picture!! And on top of that, neither the realtors, or the builders know anything about this issue!

So maybe I find a house that is built on AG property, and we'll just call it a BARN.

Bummed Out!!

Call your local inspectors to get the whole story. The link applies to Oregon. The original poster may to talk to a different inspector and or read up on local code, you never know. This is what I just found for Oregon.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/programs/energy/energy_publications/ResPub_2.pdf

 

[GlenC]

Could you lay plastic, then 2" rigid foam, then radiant heating tubes and cover with sand.... pre pour inspection ...then pour the slab.... add heat later. Otherwise I would pour an insulated floor and install a split system heat pump later...

Another option is to install radiant after the garage is finished.... there are a number of leveling compounds that can be applied over a slab and radiant tubing or wires

 

[Kevin C]

(b) The following buildings shall be exempt from the Code:
(1) Buildings otherwise exempt from the provisions of

a locally adopted building code and buildings that do not contain a conditioned space.
(2) Buildings that do not use either electricity or

fossil fuel for comfort conditioning. For purposes of determining whether this exemption applies, a building will be presumed to be heated by electricity, even in the absence of equipment used for electric comfort heating, whenever the building is provided with electrical service in excess of 100 amps, unless the code enforcement official determines that this electrical service is necessary for purposes other than providing electric comfort heating.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2614&ChapterID=5

IL law... If you have a solar heat source, you can put in hydronics.

Still looking for a detached garage exemption....

 

[C96]

Have I just walked into the some crazy liberal

 

[methomas70]

All of this is moot really.
The OP lives in DuPage County, IL.
After taxes, fees, licenses; there won't be money left to use a heater.

 

[GlenC]

All of this is moot really.
The OP lives in DuPage County, IL.
After taxes, fees, licenses; there won't be money left to use a heater.

They may never be a garage, City planning review, environmental impact studies, notify the neighbors so they can protest the build at the city council meeting and the building permit fees!