Heated Garage Illegal?

[JakeKohl]

I went through this same issue when I built my shop. The problem is that garage doors don't meet the heat loss requirements. If I remember right, its a combination of size, R value and leakage.
....

I'm willing to bet that there is a door that can meet it. My doors have gasketed rabbited joints between all of the panels and have R19 insulation. I'm sure the issue with mine would be around the perimeter of the door but it should be solvable. Heck, you could build some oversized french doors and find a way to get it to seal up.

No, but giving false info in your application is enough to lose your coverage.

That, and they're going to see and inspect the largish utility service you need - either the gigantic electrical service for the boiler or the natural gas line. Inspectors are not stupid. This isn't the place to try and pull a fast one.

The inspector is probably working from experience of people building "normal" garages and trying to heat them (probably with the same system they use for their house). I would press on a little and ask what it would take to have it meet the air leakage test. I would also be surprised if they require a physical air leakage test on new construction or just go from experience on typical fixtures / doors.

And, yeah, don't say any more than you need to. Don't be proud of your work. In my case, my inspectors wanted to know what work I did myself (all of it) and then they asked me a few pointed/tricky questions to see if I knew what I was doing. Once I answered those concisely and correctly, it appeared as if I fell into a "this guy knows what he's doing" category and they just poked around quickly looking for stupid stuff. If they see something, they'll ask you. These are real people tasked with doing a real job. You can only imagine the stuff they see and the people that try to pull fast ones on them - that alone would give anybody an attitude.

 

[JakeKohl]

Oh, and for those of you that believe inspections are a waste of resources - I recommend you do a buying inspection on a house built in an area that doesn't have inspections. I have a good friend that is a builder in an area like this and it is absolutely unbelievable some of the nightmares that even the professional builders get away with - let alone the inexperienced home owner. Buyer beware out there for sure.

 

[mygarageone]

You can thank Al Gore and his cronies for all this B.S. Yet that slim ball doesn't come close to doing what he asks everyone else to do. He wants you and all of us to do with out and yet he is the biggest abuser of it.

 

[sands35]

You can thank Al Gore and his cronies for all this B.S. Yet that slim ball doesn't come close to doing what he asks everyone else to do. He wants you and all of us to do with out and yet he is the biggest abuser of it.

There are other places for political commentary, this isn't one of them.

The inspector is probably off base - though he is a human and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DEnd]

You can thank Al Gore and his cronies for all this B.S. Yet that slim ball doesn't come close to doing what he asks everyone else to do. He wants you and all of us to do with out and yet he is the biggest abuser of it.

Al Gore had nothing to do with it. The International Residential Code (IRC) is an industry and Building Science consensus process. It is not about forcing people to use less energy, it is about building houses to a minimum acceptable level, and have those houses not kill their inhabitants and perform to a minimally acceptable level. If the IRC truly wanted to limit energy use air sealing would be a lot tighter and insulation levels would be a lot higher.

 

[Notgrownup]

City and county inspectors have a purpose as long as they do their jobs correctly....he'll look at what happens in other countries with all the collapses,,, we don't have that here for a reason.

 

[mygarageone]

Al Gore had nothing to do with it. The International Residential Code (IRC) is an industry and Building Science consensus process. It is not about forcing people to use less energy, it is about building houses to a minimum acceptable level, and have those houses not kill their inhabitants and perform to a minimally acceptable level. If the IRC truly wanted to limit energy use air sealing would be a lot tighter and insulation levels would be a lot higher.

Not the case , you are way off .

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'd run the lines for the heating in the floor and use it for my "air compressor" until things settle down. I doubt there's a rule about how you run air comprssor lines.

 

[Gerald O]

... It is not about forcing people to use less energy, ..

Actually, the energy efficiency code being enforced that is behind this issue is precisely intended to force people to use less energy. It has nothing to do with building safety. It's part of the same politics that has banned incandescent light bulbs and magnetic ballasts.

And yes, the codes for prescribed air sealing and insulation levels have increased dramatically in the last two years. The vast majority of residences built more than a couple years ago would now be illegal to build.

 

[DEnd]

Actually, the energy efficiency code being enforced that is behind this issue is precisely intended to force people to use less energy. It has nothing to do with building safety.

It has quite a bit to do with building and occupant safety, one of the benefits of well done air sealing is a lower chance of mold, the ventilation requirement that goes along with it is to increase indoor air quality. Requiring new construction to be better built is not the same as forcing people to use less energy. ASHRAE and other stakeholders in the IRC process are not "environmentalist" organizations. They are scientists, engineers, and building professionals who are concerned with making our buildings safe, affordable, and affordable to operate. Energy use is a part of that but it is far removed from the politics of banning light bulbs.

 

[Gerald O]

It has quite a bit to do with building and occupant safety, one of the benefits of well done air sealing is a lower chance of mold, the ventilation requirement that goes along with it is to increase indoor air quality. Requiring new construction to be better built is not the same as forcing people to use less energy. ASHRAE and other stakeholders in the IRC process are not "environmentalist" organizations. They are scientists, engineers, and building professionals who are concerned with making our buildings safe, affordable, and affordable to operate. Energy use is a part of that but it is far removed from the politics of banning light bulbs.

You are simply wrong about the intent of the energy code contained in the IRC.

Energy conservation is the sole driving factor of the energy code in the 2012 IRC. That's why the chapter is titled "Energy Efficiency"

"N1101.2 (R101.3) Intent.
This code shall regulate the design and construction of buildings for the effective use and conservation of energy over the useful life of each building."

Tighter air sealing can cause mold problems more easily than prevent them because it can prevent drying. But that is a topic for another debate. Control of mold is not even mentioned in the energy code.

As for ventilation, there is no ventilation requirement in the energy efficiency code, other than to state that any existing ventilation system is to be sealed for the blower test.

 

[Randy in Maine]

Difficult (if not impossible) to legislate common sense.

 

[GlenC]

Difficult (if not impossible) to legislate common sense.

Common sense doesn't need any legislation... Too many people think they need laws to protect "IDIOTS" from themselves...

 

[DEnd]

You are simply wrong about the intent of the energy code contained in the IRC.

Energy conservation is the sole driving factor of the energy code in the 2012 IRC. That's why the chapter is titled "Energy Efficiency"

As for ventilation, there is no ventilation requirement in the energy efficiency code, other than to state that any existing ventilation system is to be sealed for the blower test.

Requiring efficient use of energy is not the same as forcing people to use less energy. How much energy a building uses is outside the scope of the IRC, because the biggest driver of energy use is occupant behavior. The only thing the IRC can affect in regards to energy efficiency is how well the building performs. The IRC committees are concerned with increasing the minimal standards of building performance. Yes energy efficiency is a part of that but it must also not negatively affect occupant health and safety. That is a far cry from forcing people to use less energy.

And there is a requirement for Mechanical Ventilation, any home with less than 5 ach50 requires a whole house ventilation system that meets (sort of) ASHRAE standard 62.2. (2012 IRC, section R303.4) For the majority of the US (except climate zones 1 and 2) mechanical ventilation is required. The caveat to that is that there are very large parts of the US that do not use the IRC.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Requiring efficient use of energy is not the same as forcing people to use less energy. How much energy a building uses is outside the scope of the IRC, because the biggest driver of energy use is occupant behavior. The only thing the IRC can affect in regards to energy efficiency is how well the building performs. The IRC committees are concerned with increasing the minimal standards of building performance. Yes energy efficiency is a part of that but it must also not negatively affect occupant health and safety. That is a far cry from forcing people to use less energy.

And there is a requirement for Mechanical Ventilation, any home with less than 5 ach50 requires a whole house ventilation system that meets (sort of) ASHRAE standard 62.2. (2012 IRC, section R303.4) For the majority of the US (except climate zones 1 and 2) mechanical ventilation is required. The caveat to that is that there are very large parts of the US that do not use the IRC.

And the reason these new houses require the extra ventilation is?
Oh yeah,because theyre built too damn tight and the houses cant breathe causing health issues

 

[DEnd]

And the reason these new houses require the extra ventilation is?
Oh yeah,because theyre built too damn tight and the houses cant breathe causing health issues

It's not extra ventilation, unless you leave your windows open without mechanical ventilation your house likely doesn't have any (*Enough) except when you operate your kitchen and bath fans. I'd argue from a health perspective that all houses need whole house mechanical ventilation. Houses typically suffer from poor indoor air quality, resulting in increased asthma rates, and other health problems. (if you really want I can hunt up some studies for you) The best way is to mitigate those risks is to eliminate source pollution, but that is realistically impossible. Therefore we are left with ventilation. Although there are plants that increase indoor air quality, but I don't ever see the IRC demanding house plants.

*Edit

 

[RossABQ]

DEnd's comments are right on, it would be very very hard to get a typical garage to meet the new requirements. Back on page 1 of the thread: "Once the input capacity of the heater (or unit heater) exceeds 3.4 Btu/h • ft2 (1.0 W/ ft2) of floor area, the space, in this case the garage, is considered "conditioned."

That's only enough to provide freeze protection, on a well-insulated building. If there's an "out" here, it may be to work with the AHJ / city to get them to agree that the garage is not a normally occupied space. (I assume it's not going to be used for a business?) If the heating system is sized so that it can't attain "comfort conditioning" temperatures (say, only 50 deg.) they may go for it. I wouldn't count on it, tho.

I grew up in rural DuPage County (in the '60's) and am not surprised they have adopted the Codes. With the population density they have now, providing enough energy for thousands of heated hobby garages would really put a strain on the infrastructure around there.

 

[Gerald O]

DEnd's comments are right on, it would be very very hard to get a typical garage to meet the new requirements. Back on page 1 of the thread: "Once the input capacity of the heater (or unit heater) exceeds 3.4 Btu/h • ft2 (1.0 W/ ft2) of floor area, the space, in this case the garage, is considered "conditioned."

If you build the garage from the start with insulation and sealing methods that meet the new codes then it's achievable, although much more expensive. If you've got an older garage that you want to add heat to, then you are SOL... unless you tear out the slab and dig up the foundation...

I grew up in rural DuPage County (in the '60's) and am not surprised they have adopted the Codes. With the population density they have now, providing enough energy for thousands of heated hobby garages would really put a strain on the infrastructure around there.

Better to let the utility companies and the free market decide that. The only reason local governments are adopting these highly restrictive energy conservation codes is due to the federal subsidies to states that are tied to states complying with the objectives of the Energy Policy Act of 2005... which in large part was driven by "climate change" politics.

 

[Gerald O]

...
And there is a requirement for Mechanical Ventilation, any home with less than 5 ach50 requires a whole house ventilation system that meets (sort of) ASHRAE standard 62.2. (2012 IRC, section R303.4) For the majority of the US (except climate zones 1 and 2) mechanical ventilation is required. The caveat to that is that there are very large parts of the US that do not use the IRC.

That's hysterical!
The energy code requires the house to be sealed to less than 3-5 ACH, but then the ventilation code requires forced ventilation if the ACH is less than 5. So in other words it is mandatory to over-seal it and then use a fan to defeat the sealing.

BTW, a bathroom fan or two is sufficient to take care of the CFM requirements typically. No need for a dedicated "whole house fan". None of which do anything to mitigate mold growth inside of those over-sealed wall cavities...

 

[pseudorealityx]

Any ventilation SHOULD come through the HVAC system, so it's conditioned and will promote mold growth. Pressurizing the house against infiltration is a good idea.

 

[DEnd]

That's hysterical!
The energy code requires the house to be sealed to less than 3-5 ACH, but then the ventilation code requires forced ventilation if the ACH is less than 5. So in other words it is mandatory to over-seal it and then use a fan to defeat the sealing.

BTW, a bathroom fan or two is sufficient to take care of the CFM requirements typically. No need for a dedicated "whole house fan". None of which do anything to mitigate mold growth inside of those over-sealed wall cavities...

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/air-leaks-waste-energy-and-rot-houses

That's a 5 page article

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Where in DuPage County will they even let you build a Metal building for a garage (Pole barn)?? Let alone heated..

My thought, like others, simple answers to the government ones. I have a few friends with heated garages in Dupage.. nothing radiant though..

 

[Randy in Maine]

One would think that if anyone anywhere were going to build a energy efficient garage......it would be in Chicago. Colder than death there some winters.

Fuel to heat it with is not cheap anymore either.

 

[wastntim]

I'm willing to bet that there is a door that can meet it. My doors have gasketed rabbited joints between all of the panels and have R19 insulation. I'm sure the issue with mine would be around the perimeter of the door but it should be solvable. Heck, you could build some oversized french doors and find a way to get it to seal up.



That, and they're going to see and inspect the largish utility service you need - either the gigantic electrical service for the boiler or the natural gas line. Inspectors are not stupid. This isn't the place to try and pull a fast one.

The inspector is probably working from experience of people building "normal" garages and trying to heat them (probably with the same system they use for their house). I would press on a little and ask what it would take to have it meet the air leakage test. I would also be surprised if they require a physical air leakage test on new construction or just go from experience on typical fixtures / doors.

And, yeah, don't say any more than you need to. Don't be proud of your work. In my case, my inspectors wanted to know what work I did myself (all of it) and then they asked me a few pointed/tricky questions to see if I knew what I was doing. Once I answered those concisely and correctly, it appeared as if I fell into a "this guy knows what he's doing" category and they just poked around quickly looking for stupid stuff. If they see something, they'll ask you. These are real people tasked with doing a real job. You can only imagine the stuff they see and the people that try to pull fast ones on them - that alone would give anybody an attitude.

Before I build, I need to prove that the garage door can pass the air leakage test. I've contacted a few garage door builders and they don't even know what I'm talking about.

 

[DEnd]

Before I build, I need to prove that the garage door can pass the air leakage test. I've contacted a few garage door builders and they don't even know what I'm talking about.

I doubt you will find a manufacturer who will say their doors can pass an air leakage test, as air leakage depends on how the entire building is built, not just one component. A better question to ask is what is their designed gap between the door and the rest of the building.

The building code requires 3 air changes per hour or less at 50 pascals of pressure. I am going to assume a worse case scenario that your ceiling height is 8'. That gives you an interior volume for your 40'x48' building (assuming 6" walls) of 14664 cubic feet. That means you can only move 43992 cubic feet of air at 50 pascals of pressure to meet code. Which means that the most you can move per minute is 733.2 cubic feet at 50 pascals of pressure.

To approximately calculate how much square inches of effective gap you are allowed to have a quick and dirty calculation is CFM at 50 pascals of pressure / 10. That gives you 73.32 square inches. Lets call it 70 square inches for fudge factor.

That does not leave you with a lot of room for gaps in your building. For example if the gap of an 8x8 typical overhead residential garage door is 1/16" (and the door is well sealed at its joints and to the garage floor), then you end up with 18 square inches of gap (8*3*12*.0625). Let's call it 20 square inches for fudge factor. That is a theoretical gap number not the effective gap number, given typical garage door construction I would not be surprised to see an effective gap of 2, 3 or more times that number for a typical installation.

As you can see that doesn't give you a lot of leeway. There are a few ways you can improve your numbers. One is to maximize your interior volume, that means taller walls and a cathedral ceiling. Another way is to minimize your effective gaps at the doors, ie; tighter fitting doors, smaller doors, fewer doors. I would think well built carriage doors (actual out swinging ones not the fake roll up ones) could be installed rather tightly with decent weather stripping. You will still want to pay close attention to your air sealing details during construction on the rest of the building and minimize any holes you add to it.

 

[Gerald O]

The perimeter seals around the door will close any gap if installed correctly. However they do better under negative pressure (inside) than positive pressure because they are a flap design. If the door has weather strip between the panels, then the largest gaps will typically be at the bottom corners. Careful installation can even eliminate most of the corner gaps.

 

[jives]

This discussion worried the heck out of me as our pole barn/garage plan is almost in the excavation stage. The plan was to have the local Amish folks build the structure, and then we would finish off the electrical, lighting, heating, insulation, and interior walls. I cannot imagine having to meet every bit of the code when I don't even know what it is. How can the "normal" DIYer be expected to know and execute such things, especially one's that are not safety issues, like insulation?

Being in NY, I expected that we would be required to follow the IRC, plus every other last things our tax dollars could be spent on. But, lo' and behold, our town does not follow them for garages! Got the scoop directly from the building inspector. I can now stop reading this thread and sleep at night. . .

 

[BoostAddiction]

The only reason local governments are adopting these highly restrictive energy conservation codes is due to the federal subsidies to states that are tied to states complying with the objectives of the Energy Policy Act of 2005... which in large part was driven by "climate change" politics.

I suspect that the real reason the OP is being raked over the coals here is the local propensity for garages to be converted to living quarters, at which point there probably is a reasonable government interest in ensuring that such units can actually be heated and cooled in a way that doesn't waste resources, or adds additional risk to future occupants from homebrew HVAC systems.

The problem is that the OP is being stopped from having a garage, because of the possibility of conversion, when he very likely just wants it to be a garage...

 

[JPrato]

I built a heated 32x45x16 steel skinned pole barn garage last year in Western NY. Because it was heated, it had to meet the same standards as a house for insulation, door and window U factor. I had no windows so that was easy. The three man doors were insulated steel like you would use in a house. For the two overhead doors I had to use commercial steel doors. A little pricey but glad I did. You can find overhead door manufacturers that spec out their U factors.

I moaned a bit about the added cost of all that insulation and using quality doors but I was very happy with the heating bill last winter. I don't heat it when I'm not there and even when it is minus 10 outside the shop will not fall below 39 degrees inside. A 50,000 BTU propane radiant tube heater brings it up to 55 when I'm there. The heat got turned on mid January. Working weekends and a week night or two during the week, I only used 70 gallons of propane the remainder of the heating season.

It gets pretty cold in the Chicago area, you won't regret putting up a well insulated garage.

 

[ddawg16]

IL....making California look better every day....

Me? I'd put the pipes in after the rough inspection...hide the ends under sand...

But...if you do good insulation, you may never want to use a heated floor.

 

[Rossco]

No heat in any out building is just crazy, especially in cold climates.

 

[austinhealeybn6]

Wow...I knew that Illinois has gone crazy with bureaucrats and rules....makes me glad I'm in Indiana. I have a home in Merrillville in Lake County, Indiana...that county makes it nearly impossible to build anything without padding a palm...a very corrupt county in Indiana. Now I have a farm in Winamac. My first polebarn was built by Morton and did a fine job. The only thing I had to do back when it was built in 2005 was to tell the Pulaski County clerk that a building is going up and the date it will be finished. They just come out, measure it and add it to my tax bill. Last year's tax was $205. Now I plan to build another polebarn, this time with living quarters. This time, I had to go to the county engineer for info. A permit is required ($5), blueprints of the outside structure (again Morton Builders), a perk test ($200) and testing of well water ($15). I figure my tax bill will jump to $400, according to estimates. Maybe you should leave DuPage County, Illinois and move to Pulaski County in Indiana.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Glad I read this thread, also going to have a 30x40 or 20x 40 built with man room comforts. I suppose the mentality when it comes to plans and permits is to speak no comfort. But make sure all the garage/workshop allowed utilities are politically justified and included. Then they wonder why folks bootleg these comforts in after the fact. Bootleging was the ancestor of the modern DIYer.