Heater and compressor wiring

[aleksap]

Hello friends!

My garage doesn't have 240v so I decided to do something about it before it gets cold again as I'm tired of running kerosene heater and breathing in those fumes.

I purchased one of those 5000w heathers (ComfortZone CZ220) which was discussion on this forum.

This little guy requires 30amp breaker and 10awg wire.

I ran a conduit today (IL code) and I'm planning to pull wires tomorrow.

I was also thinking to utilize this new circuit and add another receptacle for 240v 15amp compressor I acquired but still didn't turn it on.

Obviously, I wouldn't ran these 2 together.

Now here is the problem.. compressors plug is the standard 20amp plug and from what I gathered it's illegal to mount 20amp outlet on a 30amp breaker.

Ideally I would have a separate run for each but my panel is already full and it's very far from garage.. about 100ft of conduit just for this run.

So I'm looking for thoughts and ideas on best way to work with what I have.

Appreciate you reading this!

Best regards!

 

[sparky 1971]

If you ran at least a 3/4 conduit you can fit everything in it. (2) #10 for the heater, (2) #12 for the compressor, and if you used PVC conduit or just want to have a ground wire, one green #10. If you used EMT (or rigid, LOL) the conduit can be the ground.

It might all fit in a 1/2 but I wouldn't want to do it.

 

[aleksap]

If you ran at least a 3/4 conduit you can fit everything in it. (2) #10 for the heater, (2) #12 for the compressor, and if you used PVC conduit or just want to have a ground wire, one green #10. If you used EMT (or rigid, LOL) the conduit can be the ground.

It might all fit in a 1/2 but I wouldn't want to do it.

Thank you for your reply.



Yes I did run 3/4 conduit (EMT) and ideally I would do exactly what you suggested.

However, my panel is full and I'm actually getting rid of one breaker to make space for 2 pole 30amp breaker.

Changing panel right now unfortunately is not an option.

 

[sparky 1971]

Thank you for your reply.



Yes I did run 3/4 conduit (EMT) and ideally I would do exactly what you suggested.

However, my panel is full and I'm actually getting rid of one breaker to make space for 2 pole 30amp breaker.

Changing panel right now unfortunately is not an option.

Add a sub panel right next to the main. Even if you don't go that route, pull the wires now, too much work to do it in the future.

I wouldn't be concerned about plugging the compressor into a 30 either, especially if it's just to get by.

 

[aleksap]

Add a sub panel right next to the main. Even if you don't go that route, pull the wires now, too much work to do it in the future.

I wouldn't be concerned about plugging the compressor into a 30 either, especially if it's just to get by.

I had those thoughts as well.
Currently my home still has 100amp service.
My plan is to sometimes in next 2 years replace the panel and involve electric company to upgrade me to 200amp service.

Also, it's an old Westinghouse panel and I would rather do it all at once.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.

Right now I know I need heater to get me through winter to wrap up a project car I'm doing.
Having a compressor would be nice as well.

Is there any reason I couldn't just change plug on compressor to match 30amp receptacle?
It has its own fuse and while I'm definitely a noob it kinda seems it should be alright?

 

[Norcal]

If you ran at least a 3/4 conduit you can fit everything in it. (2) #10 for the heater, (2) #12 for the compressor, and if you used PVC conduit or just want to have a ground wire, one green #10. If you used EMT (or rigid, LOL) the conduit can be the ground.

It might all fit in a 1/2 but I wouldn't want to do it.

In the parts of Hellinois (Chicago & suburbs) that require conduit, I understand that PVC is only allowed underground.

 

[wssix99]

Currently my home still has 100amp service.

This doesn't matter. Your breakers can add up to be over 100A. As long as the electricity actually pulled by all the circuits isn't over 100A at any point in time, you are fine.

Your 30A circuit can only have one device on it, which is why you can't add the second outlet.

The subpanel is the solution to your dilemma and will give you flexibility and expandability at your garage. I would bump the circuit/subpanel up as high as you can go in the conduit you ran can take and then put a subpanel in that till give you 30A for the heater, a slot for your 120V circuit, and then some space for the next thing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

whats the HP rating on the comp?

 

[exranger06]

It sounds like this is an attached garage, and the main panel is located somewhere else in the house, and it's a pain to run new circuits from the panel to the garage. Is that correct? I had the same situation in my house. So I installed a subpanel in the garage. That way, I only had to run one circuit from the main panel to the garage, while being able to run many new circuits in the garage. If I ever want to add more circuits or change anything, I have my easy-to-access subpanel right there in the garage, and I don't have to mess around with the main panel at all.

 

[aleksap]

Thank you all for replies.

I did the right thing and installed subpanel next to the main panel.

In retrospective I wish I ran the subpanel in garage but this will do it.

I have heater connected to 30amp breaker and compressor to 20amp.

Everything is tested and working great!

 

[fdtrucks]

I am looking at wiring in both a heater and compressor as well in the next week, depending on timeline to get the permit. I have a Pro Fusion heater that I used in a prior garage that did amazing. Really looking forward to having that installed this winter. Its 5000w and has a 21.9 amp draw. My compressor motor is 5hp 20.5 amp draw. I was originally thinking that I would be running two separate circuits. However, earlier this week I helped a neighbor run a charging station for his Tesla and was talking with the inspector. He told me that I would be fine to run them both off a single circuit if I wanted. A single circuit 60 amp breaker with 6/3 run to both would pass. To all you electrical aficionados, does this check out?

 

[dave*99]

I am looking at wiring in both a heater and compressor as well in the next week, depending on timeline to get the permit. I have a Pro Fusion heater that I used in a prior garage that did amazing. Really looking forward to having that installed this winter. Its 5000w and has a 21.9 amp draw. My compressor motor is 5hp 20.5 amp draw. I was originally thinking that I would be running two separate circuits. However, earlier this week I helped a neighbor run a charging station for his Tesla and was talking with the inspector. He told me that I would be fine to run them both off a single circuit if I wanted. A single circuit 60 amp breaker with 6/3 run to both would pass. To all you electrical aficionados, does this check out?

If he had said you can run 6/3WG to a subpanel and power the heater and compressor each on their own 30A circuit from that, I'd agree. Are you sure you heard him right?

 

[micromind]

I believe the inspector is correct.

According to code, motor current is to be determined by the tables in article 430. (430.6(A)(1).

The table states that the current for a single phase 5 HP motor operating at 230 volts is 28 amps. Table 430.52 allows a circuit breaker to be rated up to 250% of the motor current. 28 X 2.5 = 70 so a 60 is perfectly compliant.

Article 424 covers fixed in place space heating equipment. 424.22(B) allows resistance type elements to be protected at not more than 60 amps.

You'll need a disconnect switch at both the compressor and the heater.

If it were me, I would very likely put them on their own circuits though.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am looking at wiring in both a heater and compressor as well in the next week, depending on timeline to get the permit. I have a Pro Fusion heater that I used in a prior garage that did amazing. Really looking forward to having that installed this winter. Its 5000w and has a 21.9 amp draw. My compressor motor is 5hp 20.5 amp draw. I was originally thinking that I would be running two separate circuits. However, earlier this week I helped a neighbor run a charging station for his Tesla and was talking with the inspector. He told me that I would be fine to run them both off a single circuit if I wanted. A single circuit 60 amp breaker with 6/3 run to both would pass. To all you electrical aficionados, does this check out?

the compressor will need to be hardwired (nema plugs and receptacles arent rated for 5HP) and doesnt need a neutral. the wire needed for a 5HP motor is #10 in pipe or #8 NM-b. so youre running oversized wire already. The breaker can be max 250% of FLC which is 70a.

for the heater you only need #10 wire and 30a breaker. Im guessing the heater manufacturer has listed a max breaker size lower than 60a.

putting both of these on a single 60a circuit doesnt make sense.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I believe the inspector is correct.

According to code, motor current is to be determined by the tables in article 430. (430.6(A)(1).

The table states that the current for a single phase 5 HP motor operating at 230 volts is 28 amps. Table 430.52 allows a circuit breaker to be rated up to 250% of the motor current. 28 X 2.5 = 70 so a 60 is perfectly compliant.

Article 424 covers fixed in place space heating equipment. 424.22(B) allows resistance type elements to be protected at not more than 60 amps.

You'll need a disconnect switch at both the compressor and the heater.

If it were me, I would very likely put them on their own circuits though.

if the manufacturer lists a smaller breaker is to be used then this doesnt work

 

[micromind]

if the manufacturer lists a smaller breaker is to be used then this doesnt work

Correct. Or the disconnect t can be fused to the manufacturers requirement.

 

[fdtrucks]

Thanks for the input fellas. I believe after taking everything into account, I will end up doing what aleksap did and go with a sub panel. My electrical service comes in on the opposite side of the house as the garage, and I have a finished basement. I want to add additional 110v receptacles, and a 240v for a welder in the future. I just don't want to patch up drywall again down the road when I go to add those.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

a subpanel is the best way to go