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Heater for enclosed utility trailer

babzog

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Hey folks! So I've got a 14x7 encl trailer that I'll be taking to the snowcross races this winter (son is racing in the 120 class). Looking at heating options since we'll be camping in the trailer for some of the races. I've insulated the trailer, walls and ceiling. Don't have the ability to install a propane furnace yet so am looking at my best option for a plugin electric.

Options I've considered are; small ceramic or larger infrared/quartz/halogonnsuch as that from princess auto or home hardware. Both are 1500 watt. With the rear ramp down (I plan to build an inside door to close off the interior during the day), or for sleeping, which would provide a warmer and more comfortable interior? Are there other options I've not considered?
 
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Boomer343

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I have various electric heaters and the best space heater I have found is the oil filled radiant type. I would think it would also be the safest for your situation.

I would plug it in at home and get things a little warmer before heading out.
 

Leaflessshadetree

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I have a Mr Heater portable that runs on small propane cylinders or can be used with a 20lb tank. Works pretty well to heat the inside of my slide in camper or ice fishing tent.
 

Stuart in MN

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As long as you have a way to plug it in, an electric heater will be safest. As you've found most of them are 1500 watts, and they all put out the same amount of heat so you don't need to get anything fancy or expensive - what's referred to as a milkhouse heater will work as good as anything.

142_large.jpg
 

CNGsaves

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Guessing by your post that these are snowcross races in Canada, so pretty darn cold. What temps are typical nighttime that you'll need heater to overcome?? Do you have track-provided electrical, or are using a generator all night to power these proposed electric heaters??

If no free electricity, I think you need to stay with safe portable propane heater like Mr Heater Big Buddy that is capable of 18K Btu - - - three levels (low/med/high) plus a fan if AC available, or batteries. I've used Big Buddy in small camper about same size as your trailer. Mine has optional hose to connect 20 lb BBQ propane tank, instead of small 1 lb Coleman propane tanks. The little 1 lb propane bottles are handy (Big Buddy heater holds one on each side), but they're kind of expensive so I just used the 20 lb BBQ bottle.

With the power of that propane heater, you can crank it up to high for 10 minutes and get space nice and warm, and then lower it back down to maintain temp overnight.

Big Buddy heater has low oxygen sensor so it will shutdown if unsafe. When hunting in that camper (no electric), we had some 10 or 20 degree (Fahrenheit) nights and Big Buddy heater was great. Didn't use the fan feature of Big Buddy, just power of propane heat.

With the optional hose kit for BBQ bottle, you could get whole setup for $150 or so. See pricing at Northern Tool below.

Now if track provides all the "free" electricity you can use, then go with 1500 watt oil filled heater and crank it up for couple hours before you need to shack up in the trailer. I'd still get the Big Buddy as a backup. Good luck.
 

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killerjeep

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If your using electric what we do is use a small space heater to help take off some chill. But when we sleep we use that along with some heated blankets. It has worked wonders.
 
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babzog

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I had not been considering the Mr Heater type propane heaters since we would be sleeping in there and I was concerned about CO. Also, with the non-vented gas heaters, is there a prtoblem with increased humidity levels? Finally, are they safe to use around flammables?

Was testing a radiant and a ceramic today. Seems like the ceramic made it warmer in there but it's maybe a 1/4 the size of the radiant. Dies that make sense? Noisier though, with the fan running.

No track power so I'll be bringing a genset.
 

theoldwizard1

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I have various electric heaters and the best space heater I have found is the oil filled radiant type. I would think it would also be the safest for your situation.
These do provide a comfortable, even heat but do not handle big shifts in temperature well (open door).

Do you have power where you are camping or are you going to be using a generator. The noise from a genny will kill any attempts at a good night sleep.
 

Stuart in MN

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Any non-vented combustion heater is going to exhaust moisture and carbon monoxide into the room. They have low oxygen sensors these days that are supposed to shut them down, but personally I wouldn't want to trust one while sleeping.

edit: I noticed you insulated the walls and ceiling, but didn't mention the floor...if it's uninsulated it's going to be pretty cold to sleep on.
 

theoldwizard1

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If your using electric what we do is use a small space heater to help take off some chill. But when we sleep we use that along with some heated blankets. It has worked wonders.

Better than heated blankets, use a heated mattress pad. My Dad heated his house on wood and the bedroom where he and Mom slept would get down to 50F at night. With the heated mattress pads, they had no issues except getting up in the morning to stoke the wood burner !
 

Spareparts

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The Ceramac heaters would be my choice, for their size they put out a lot of heat, you got a valid point about the unvented gas type of heater, not just carbon monixide but they take the oxygen out of the air.
 

theoldwizard1

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Now if track provides all the "free" electricity you can use, then go with 1500 watt oil filled heater and crank it up for couple hours before you need to shack up in the trailer. I'd still get the Big Buddy as a backup. Good luck.

Concur ! Get a 20lb BBQ tank and the appropriate hoses and adapters. If you have the space, buy a second tank. Nice to have one if the first one runs out in the middle of the night !
 

rslaback

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If this is a long term solution I would see if I could find an old pop up camper to steal the lp furnace out of. They are thermostat controlled and dead nuts simple.
 

machine_punk

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I use a small milk house heater. It has a thermostat, so it won't run all night. I suspect for the size trailer you are talking about, it would be more than enough to take the chill off. I also like the oil-filled, electric, radiant heaters (but they do better, if you leave them on 24/7...keeping a place warm, instead of warming it up). I think the milk house heater has a tip over switch (cuts off, if it tips over). Only $20 USD for the small model at Ace Hardware.

View media item 15797
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This one has a metal casing and a fan. The smaller and larger milk house heaters have EXACTLY the same working parts inside, the only difference is the size of the case and the configuration of the switches. 1500 watts is 1500 watts...don't waste your money on the larger one, unless you need the larger casing for some reason.

Kev
 

theoldwizard1

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I had not been considering the Mr Heater type propane heaters since we would be sleeping in there and I was concerned about CO.
All heater approved for indoor use have oxygen depletion sensor that shut off when there is low oxygen. I would also buy a CO detector.

Finally, are they safe to use around flammables?
Gasoline should stored outside. If you are using a foam insulation on the walls and ceiling, you really need to cover it with something that is flame resistant, like 1/2" drywall.

No track power so I'll be bringing a genset. :wtf:
And with a generator running all night, you won't be sleeping much ! You will likely go through more than 50 liters of gasoline per day !

I have slept on frozen ground in an old army tent at less than -20C. It is do able. You need thick foam mattress and down sleeping bags. Heavy sweat shirts. Heat during the day to dry thing out.

A really small wood/coal burning stove, like this, you could easily vent that through the roof.

Hot%20Chocolate%20Manheimer.jpg


Put some 2" patio blocks underneath and a piece of heavy gauge sheet metal between it and the nearest wall with about a 4-6" gap on both sides.
 
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jkwilson

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I routinely use a 1500W heater to keep a tent comfortable for sleeping down into the upper 20s. Not toasty, but much warmer than it would be otherwise. You'll be surprised what a heater like that will do as long as the wind isn't bad.

Remember that in an insulated space you gain a lot from body heat.

I'd recommend a unit with a fan and multiple heat levels. That way you can adjust it so the fan runs all the time. Makes nice white noise to block out
 

NUTTSGT

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If you're running a generator, I hope you have something like a Honda 2000EU generator, reliable and quiet.

Does your trailer have a roof vent ? If you're running a LP heater, I'd have the vent cracked during use. Like mentioned above, a CO detector purchase would be a smart idea.

I'd consider using both, generator with electric during the day and the LP at night so you don't have to listen to the generator.
 

jhelrey

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Did the OP post this on a snowmobile forum also? Looks familiar...
 
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babzog

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Everyone is going to have a genny and most will probably be running at night. What if I built a plywood box for it with some 1" foam insulation as a sound insulator - would that cut the noise enough to make it worth the effort? I don't have the budget for a Honda genny right now.

If I went the BB route and popped a roof vent (both are stuffed with insulation right now), installed a CO detector, how confident could I be that we'll wake up the next morning?

Floor is not insulated, did not have the ceiling clearance to do so. Next trailer I buy will have sufficient height that I can lay down a few sheets of foam and a new floor. Thought about spray foaming it underneath but it was suggested to me that the road salt would eat it away.

I've noticed a distinct preference for the oil filled radiant heaters. Why those in particular and why the oil-filled over the quartz radiant that can be mounted up nr the ceiling, out of the way?

I would very much like to located an old TT to scavenge parts such as the furnace. Are the tent trailer furnaces easily adapted? I'd probably run it down the side of my trailer but the venting on the tent trailer furnace looks like it comes out the end. Possivle to bend that to breathe from the trailer side?
 
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D.J.

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Well I don't know of anyone that sells natural gas in cylinders like the lp 20 # gas grill bottles , course I live in the sticks. I would go with 20 poun gas grill bottle with the budy style heater and the co detector.
 

theoldwizard1

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Everyone is going to have a genny and most will probably be running at night. What if I built a plywood box for it with some 1" foam insulation as a sound insulator - would that cut the noise enough to make it worth the effort?
Well the weather is on your side ! People who have done this and run during summer have to use a big fan and a big exhaust vent which lets out a lot of noise.

Forget the plywood. Use 2" foil faced foam. Better, use 2 - 1" sheets glued so that the foil is on both the inside and the outside. You want at least 12" of air space all around the generator. On the side where the exhaust exits, mount a heavy gauge sheet metal plate inside the box, with about a 6" air gap between it and the foam so that the exhaust hits it first. Weld a 90° elbow on the muffler so that the exhaust exits straight down and close to the ground.

Build it with legs so that there is about a 6" air gap at the bottom all the way arround. I would make the next 6" up removeable just in case things got too hot. Air and exhaust will get in/out, but noise does not like to go down and then back up. This is definitely an "experiment". Maybe use a BBQ grill thermometer to monitor temperature inside

Something else to consider is a remote fuel tank. (Getting your fuel hot is NOT a good idea !) Many generators already have a vacuum operated fuel pump on them. Run your hose from the pump inlet outside the box to a gas can. You can use a standard gas can because there is a pump so you don't have to worry about gravity feed. If there is no fuel pump, you can add one pretty easily.

You are still going to use lots of fuel !!

If I went the BB route and popped a roof vent (both are stuffed with insulation right now), installed a CO detector, how confident could I be that we'll wake up the next morning?
That is the reason you have a CO detector ! A CO2 detector is also a good idea ! Test both every evening. Carry spare batteries, Some batteries don't work well in extremely cold weather.

I've noticed a distinct preference for the oil filled radiant heaters. Why those in particular and why the oil-filled over the quartz radiant that can be mounted up nr the ceiling, out of the way?
Because they give gentle, even heat. Downside is, they don't react quick to a big temp change (open door). Depending on how the cots are spaced, you are probably going to need 2 of them. A cheap, fan forced "milk house" heater is also a good backup. A 5000 watt genny should run all 3 if needed.

Use a separate 12 gauge extension cords for each heater.

I would very much like to located an old TT to scavenge parts such as the furnace. Are the tent trailer furnaces easily adapted? I'd probably run it down the side of my trailer but the venting on the tent trailer furnace looks like it comes out the end. Possivle to bend that to breathe from the trailer side?
Actually I would look for a good, used direct vent, propane wall furnace, like from a cabin.


If you are going electric, don't forget the mattress pad warmers !!
 
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cburnscrx

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If you're going electric, I would recommend one of these. We've used it to sleep in in what amounts to an insulated and drywalled 2 car garage with a cement floor and a single garage door (don't ask, it's an unusual building/house/party room). We placed a piece of carpet on the floor underneath the air mattress and just used warm blankets and a sleeping bag. It did great, especially since on of the nights was near zero. Was it 80 degrees in there? No, but it was comfortable. I would estimate the square footage to be about at least 500. If you're in 7 x 14 trailer, you'll love the remote and adjustable thermostat, because you'll be WARM. Good luck and enjoy!

http://www.menards.com/main/heating...portable-infrared-heater/p-2046410-c-5617.htm
 

NUTTSGT

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Everyone is going to have a genny and most will probably be running at night. What if I built a plywood box for it with some 1" foam insulation as a sound insulator - would that cut the noise enough to make it worth the effort? I don't have the budget for a Honda genny right now.

If I went the BB route and popped a roof vent (both are stuffed with insulation right now), installed a CO detector, how confident could I be that we'll wake up the next morning?

Floor is not insulated, did not have the ceiling clearance to do so. Next trailer I buy will have sufficient height that I can lay down a few sheets of foam and a new floor. Thought about spray foaming it underneath but it was suggested to me that the road salt would eat it away.

I've noticed a distinct preference for the oil filled radiant heaters. Why those in particular and why the oil-filled over the quartz radiant that can be mounted up nr the ceiling, out of the way?

I would very much like to located an old TT to scavenge parts such as the furnace. Are the tent trailer furnaces easily adapted? I'd probably run it down the side of my trailer but the venting on the tent trailer furnace looks like it comes out the end. Possivle to bend that to breathe from the trailer side?

Once you can afford the Honda EU series, buy one. You will be impressed at the fuel consumption and how much quieter it is over a Briggs unit. You will literally have to walk right up to it to make sure it's running, it's that quiet.

If you chose a Buddy LP heater, it will have an oxygen depletion sensor on it. The purchase of a separate CO detector is nothing more than personal insurance. If you choose this method of heat, test it out before you go.

Although your floor is not insulated, You could add a piece of office carpet (thin) for a thermal break to keep off the cold floor. You can purchase a piece of it at any of the big box stores. Simply roll it up when not in use.

The oil filled radiators are good but for your situation, I'd rather have a ceramic heater that has a fan on it. I think that would help move the warm air around the inside of the trailer. I'd also rather have it on the floor, this will allow the warm air to rise through the different levels of the trailer warming it entirely. If you mount it up high, the majority of the warm air will stay at the upper level (head/chest) and your toes will get jealous.

The TT furnace, I've got nothing on that but to be careful with the installation.
 

rslaback

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I would very much like to located an old TT to scavenge parts such as the furnace. Are the tent trailer furnaces easily adapted? I'd probably run it down the side of my trailer but the venting on the tent trailer furnace looks like it comes out the end. Possivle to bend that to breathe from the trailer side?

Tent trailers have a pretty easy furnace to adapt. They have a grill on the inside like a milkhouse heater and usually vent out the side of the trailer directly behind them. The vent fitting is usually about 3 by 4 with a 1.5" hole. The ignition system and fan will run on 12vdc so you wouldn't even need to run your generator at night.

everest.jpg
 

theoldwizard1

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Once you can afford the Honda EU series, buy one. You will be impressed at the fuel consumption and how much quieter it is over a Briggs unit. You will literally have to walk right up to it to make sure it's running, it's that quiet.
I have to agree, they are the Cadillac of generators.

However, a EU2000 will only run 1 - 1,500 watt heater. An EU3000 will only run 2 of them. At $2000 (US) you can buy a whole lot of fuel for your B&S powered 5000 watt generator which can run 3 heaters !
 

NUTTSGT

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I have to agree, they are the Cadillac of generators.

However, a EU2000 will only run 1 - 1,500 watt heater. An EU3000 will only run 2 of them. At $2000 (US) you can buy a whole lot of fuel for your B&S powered 5000 watt generator which can run 3 heaters !

Oh yes, I more than wholeheartedly agree a 3000 would be better but I'm not sure what the OP can afford. :beer:
 
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babzog

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If I wanted to tuck that up flat against the side of the trailer, is it possible to route the intake&exhaust 90deg to vent out the trailer side?

Tent trailers have a pretty easy furnace to adapt. They have a grill on the inside like a milkhouse heater and usually vent out the side of the trailer directly behind them. The vent fitting is usually about 3 by 4 with a 1.5" hole. The ignition system and fan will run on 12vdc so you wouldn't even need to run your generator at night.

everest.jpg
 
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babzog

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This heater is also 1500 watt. I've been wondering about this particular style of heater - what, if anything, makes this a better heater than my $30 ceramic or $50 quartz radiant? They command a hefty price premium.


If you're going electric, I would recommend one of these. We've used it to sleep in in what amounts to an insulated and drywalled 2 car garage with a cement floor and a single garage door (don't ask, it's an unusual building/house/party room). We placed a piece of carpet on the floor underneath the air mattress and just used warm blankets and a sleeping bag. It did great, especially since on of the nights was near zero. Was it 80 degrees in there? No, but it was comfortable. I would estimate the square footage to be about at least 500. If you're in 7 x 14 trailer, you'll love the remote and adjustable thermostat, because you'll be WARM. Good luck and enjoy!

http://www.menards.com/main/heating...portable-infrared-heater/p-2046410-c-5617.htm
 

CNGsaves

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Sounds like lots of racers will have gensets running . . . . it will be noisy environment all around if high RPM gensets are screaming all night. Not much sleep going to happen, unless you can get away from the noise.

All electric will be most safe, and ought to have incremental plan if you go that route. Oil-filled heater can be put right near where you're sleeping and provide quiet heat. I've used that as well in camping trailer where we had electricity provided. BEST overall setup (if all electric) would be heater for the general space (ie oil-filled or milkhouse or infrared) PLUS have an electric blanket. This would be optimal for toasty warm night's sleep. Of course your quality of sleep depends on noise level of gensets all around.

Low RPM genset should be what you eventually get. They will be "silent" in comparison to screaming high rpm gassers. Low RPM diesel genset would be ideal, but they are expensive. Quiet gas models would be the Honda and Yamaha. If you can get a buddy system going with other race parents, maybe 2 or 3 families could share one good genset and run extension cords to each trailer.

Absolutely must keep any flammable liquids out of trailer while you're sleeping in there. No gas cans as the fumes themselves make it unsafe for sleeping.

Yes, I've used only Big Buddy on 20 lb propane tank on wicked cold night in camper. Within 10 minutes, the BB on high (propane only, no fan) took camper from 10 degrees F to say 40 or 50 degrees F. It was perfectly safe to sleep with propane heat only from Big Buddy. This is same BB that ice hut fisherman in Michigan use all the time - - it's safe. I'd recommend BB as backup, even if you go all electric.
 

Kev442

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1500w fan forced milkhouse heater to get the temp up during the day, $15. Oil filled radiant 1500w to maintain the temp at night, place in front of door where drafts are coming in, $30. This has kept me at 60-65 degrees in a trailer at -10 with only a tink-tink noise as the radiant turns on and off.
Propane is great for coating the walls with moisture and cycles on and off all night long, never again.
 

Kevin54

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The oil filled radiators work fantastic. My wife uses one in her 20x20 building and it keeps it a comfortable 65 degrees on the medium setting. Plus the oil heats up and then radiates down slowly before kicking back on, unlike others with blowers that are noisy and cycle on and off rather quickly. If it gets down to 0f or below outside, she will turn a second one on on either medium or low and can keep it at 70f in there easy. Plus her building gets hit from all four sides and the wind blows about every day where we live.

I highly recommend one for your trailer. If you look around, some of them now have small fans on them. Hers does not.

th
 

MN BIANCHI

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I installed an LP gas RV furnace in my snowmobile trailer. I have a 30lb propane cylinder mounted on the trailer tounge. If I had more clearance underneath I would have preferred a larger belly mounted LP tank. The power comes from 2 RV 6 volt batteries. I also have a Honda 4000 watt generator in additon to the standard 120 AC plug in capability.

If you do not want to use LP the best system I found was the Espar heaters.

Here is a link: http://www.espar.com/fileadmin/data/countrysites/EB_Kanada/pdf/Airtronic_D2-D4-D5_Spec_sheet.pdf

They are compact and put out a lot of heat, but are quite expensive.
 
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babzog

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That is nice! Runs on diesel, I bet that puts out a ton of heat for the size. What are the prices on those? Edit: Checked ebay... wow!

I have nothing against LP, but the notion of sleeping in an enclose space with a non-vented combustion appliance doesn't sit too well. I saw a big buddy heater today and the box says for outdoor use. I'd use it with the ramp down and just back doors in place since there will be plenty of air exchange during the day but at night... I'd worry.

Gotta do it on a budget this year so I'll pack the ceramic for sure. Cheapo ($30) cdn tire one is already making fan noises and it has less than 20 hrs on it. The oil radiators are really pricey here - north of $70. Are the significantly better than the quartz tube radiators? I like the latter since I can mount it high and save floor space. The one I'm playing with right now is $45 from home hardware and is the same model as that from princess auto but $25 less.

Still curious about those fancy box heaters. Is every 1500 watt really just the same as another or do some throw more heat than others? Why the big price difference?
 
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