Heating 40x50 high bay shop

[Iann128]

So my shop has been done for about 2 years and this will be the first full winter working full time in the said shop. Wish I had done more reading when I was planing and I would have put in floor heat. It is a metal sided pole barn. I have a 14' door and 3 9' doors. No ceiling how big a heater and what kind would be good here in AR. It only gets to below freezing a couple times a year but these old bones don't like the cold. I got a K1 fired 23k BTU heater to take the chill off in the 10x16 "office" but it does not do much for the rest of the shop and it is only in the 40s right now... Thanks in advance

Ian

 

[larry_g]

A lot is going to depend on whether the building is insulated and sealed or not. Without it's going to be expensive any way you go. Do you have gas available, enough waste oil to run a waste oil furnace, or possibly of a wood stove?

lg
no enat sig line

 

[Iann128]

The only insulation is the double bubble and the doors. I do the oil change on the yellow peterbilt that is parked in the shop every 1-1.5 months and that is 10 gal of waste oil at a time, also do the oil changes on my 3 other cars and tucks. No natural gas on the property could get propane tank. I don't need it to be 80 in the shop but want to be able to take the chill out of the air when I am working out there..

Thanks,
Ian

 

[finn]

I wouldn't waste money on a heater until I insulated the building.

Waste oil heaters look interesting, but the cheap ones seem like maintenance nightmares, and the good ones are relatively expensive compared to a simple hanging propane heater, especially if you have a short heating season.

 

[Iann128]

Don't plan on insulating any time soon.. Plus with the hight of the rafters I don't think it would help much. I know in the last truck shop I worked in that was 6 bays and almost 100 feet deep we were able to keep it warm enough to work in with radiant heat as long as we kept the doors shut. I am going to call a couple of the local heating and air shops next week to see what they recommend.

 

[Firebrick43]

Do you have soffit vents or gable vents? Can't see how your shop is constructed with the outside pic.

Radiant heat is much different. In a typical force air heated building you may be could on the ground and sweating like a pig in a man lift. In a radiant floor heated building I have been in short sleeves on the floor and in a coat up in a man lift.

If you have vents it maybe be very hard to heat without a ceiling let alone insulation. It makes a huge difference to have a ceiling,

But if it's no vented you could brute force heat it. Probably something in the 200k btu per hour range would be a start.

 

[Iann128]

Yeah ridge and soffits are open. We had the gas fire radiant heaters in the last on the ceiling. I was afraid that was going to be the issue going so big and open. So far this year it has not gotten too cold yet, but there are 3- 4 months left and I am trying to make a living out here now. The 23k K1 heater makes the air near it warmer but not the whole shop

 

[D45]

Do you have natural gas or propane out your way?

Is floor space valuable? Do you want it wall or ceiling mounted?

Budget?

Are there any windows?

 

[D45]

You are currently using a 23,000 BTU kerosene heater?

I had a 60k kerosene heater in my small shop and it did GREAT

However, I hated running out of fuel and hated it taking up floor space

 

[D45]

That's a large structure to heat.......especially if you will be opening and closing the doors, to pull vehicles in and out

A partially insulated 40x50 shop with tall ceilings, you'll need a 125,000-150,000 BTU heater, propane or NG

 

[Iann128]

Do you have natural gas or propane out your way?

Is floor space valuable? Do you want it wall or ceiling mounted?

Budget?

Are there any windows?

Yeah don't want to loose floor space, I think wall mounted would be best, no natural gas but can get propane. Budget is sort of open right now. No windows that open but have clear plastic siding at the top of the back wall.

 

[D45]

Waste oil might not be a bad idea, but I thought those are expensive

Just depends what kind of service he can get out there, like running a NG line

Or, buy a large propane tank for next to the shop and feed the heater off propane

 

[930dreamer]

I heat my 30x40 with a vintage Fisher wood stove, I removed the gas heater because I didn't like the noise it made and the gas bill. My shop is fully insulated with a open ceiling and I can raise the temp from 40 degrees the 65 in an hour or so.

 

[Iann128]

That's a large structure to heat.......especially if you will be opening and closing the doors, to pull vehicles in and out

A partially insulated 40x50 shop with tall ceilings, you'll need a 125,000-150,000 BTU heater, propane or NG

Yeah it is only going to be me working out here, and most of what I will be working on is "project" type work so should not be opening and closing the doors too many times a day.

 

[D45]

I would find a large, used hanging heater off of Craiglist and find a LARGE propane tank for it

Heaters are next to nothing on Craigslist.........just vent it properly ($100-$200) and get a low temp garage thermostat and you are set

The propane tank might be expensive, but you don't want a small one and run out of fuel

You might be able to find a tank also on CL

 

[D45]

I am running a 45K BTU heater in my 1000 square foot garage, fed by natural gas

I only have insulated walls, no ceiling

I did the entire project for around $350, including the heater from CL

 

[Firebrick43]

Yeah it is only going to be me working out here, and most of what I will be working on is "project" type work so should not be opening and closing the doors too many times a day.

But those vents are like a huge door is open all the time, in fact as you heat the hot rising air forms a chimney effect. Even if you are not going to insulate putting a ceiling in will stop the loss out the vents and require 1/2 the heat or better

 

[Shop Specialties]

How about a diesel fired radiant ? I think this would be a great choice for your application. No smoke/fumes running #2 red dye.

 

[matt_i]

I'd think the radiant tube heaters are the way to go in a large space that's totally unenclosed like a loading dock but I think it will be $$$$ by the time they are all put in or a large system is put together.

As above, best solution is to close off the ceiling with something, anything to stop the chimney effect.

My shop is much smaller but has a 4' square opening for a staircase that was never enclosed and I could heat it up with a 100k BTU furnace but the heat would be "gone" within 1-2 hours. I placed a sliding sheet of plywood over the opening with a packing/moving blanket over it and the shop will "hold" the heat for a day even up close to the great white north.

You could try a wood stove as mentioned, that's basically a radiant heater, and try to keep it close to where you normally work. But normal effort and mess to cut/haul/split/buy wood & clean the chimney as the penalty.

 

[woody6904]

How about a diesel fired radiant ? I think this would be a great choice for your application. No smoke/fumes running #2 red dye.

X2 love my Val6 heater. I got 16 foot ceiling in my shop, will run the ceiling fan to help stir it up.

Do you have a bulk fuel tanl for ur trucks? I just wheel mine out to the tank and top it off.

Ive seen the local john deere use the bigger Val6 in their new storage shed that sometimes gets used as a shop. Big and open and no ceiling, but the heater does make it comfortable for the mechanic working out there.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Most farmers around here use the radiant tube heaters in their shops.

My father has an LP one in his insulated shop and it works quite well.

 

[Iann128]

But those vents are like a huge door is open all the time, in fact as you heat the hot rising air forms a chimney effect. Even if you are not going to insulate putting a ceiling in will stop the loss out the vents and require 1/2 the heat or better

What would be the best way to put a ceiling up? The rafters are 10' apart, would I need to stud them up? Some days hind sight is 20-20 I built the shop thinking it would be storage and work space, now I want to make my living out there and it is already getting cold down here in Arkansas lol. Got a quote of around $7500 installed for a clean burn waste oil furnace.

 

[dw1]

What would be the best way to put a ceiling up? The rafters are 10' apart, would I need to stud them up? Some days hind sight is 20-20 I built the shop thinking it would be storage and work space, now I want to make my living out there and it is already getting cold down here in Arkansas lol. Got a quote of around $7500 installed for a clean burn waste oil furnace.

You can use barn metal for a ceiling. I am actually leaning that way. You would have to add some studs between your trusses. I guess your trusses are rated to carry the load of adding a ceiling?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'm going to put my $0.02 worth in on doing it "on the cheap."

I'd either put in some curved tipped ceiling fans to blow whatever heat you do use back down, or put some cheap cover for a ceiling up on the bottom of the rafters to get or keep the heat lower. Either plastic or some thin luan wood panels will work.

For heat, if this is an option, go buy a Double Barrel heater kit,

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...e-fireplace-accessories+barrel-stove-supplies

Put it OUTSIDE inside sealed metal air box with the front open to the outside so you can feed it. then run you a couple of metal ducts into it from the shop with blower fan here, and then two metal ducts going back into the shop.

It'll get the chill off the place. A buddy of mine's parents let us close in the single car carport to use as a shop. We built one like this with a 30 gallon barrel inside a 55 gallon barrel with a 6 inch in/outlet. We had to leave the garage door cracked or we couldn't work it would get so hot in there. We used an "old school" 12V truck dash fan for the blower with no thermostat.

I worked at Ryder at the time and would save the old LuberFiner oil by-pass filters, cut them open and take the oil soaked filter media (wood chips) out and wrap it into baseball size balls inside heavy duty aluminum foil for fuel. We'd pick up all the pine cones at his house, get a fire started and toss one of these in to burn.

BTW, I remodeled your shop so the floor is down....

 

[Iann128]

When I lived in upstate NY we had a 30x50 or so block garage that you could park school buses in and we heated it with a single barrel wood stove kit and a torpedo heater I remember being out there working on the old race car in almost a t-shirt That was 15-16 years ago are the torpedo heaters any quieter these days and what about smell?

 

[Firebrick43]

You can use barn metal for a ceiling. I am actually leaning that way. You would have to add some studs between your trusses. I guess your trusses are rated to carry the load of adding a ceiling?

I would metal barn liner. About the lightest weight. The best way would be joist hangers and 2x4 on edge. Easiest is to screw up flat long 2x4 on 4' center. I would put up a plastic vapor barrier before the metal so insulating would be easier later on and it will seal things better. On the post at the top have a purlin across to put you j channel to retain the edge.

 

[Iann128]

Have no idea of the trusses are "rated" for ceiling as they were site built and not "engineered" I know I can hang my 250lb body off them and they don't flex... Putting up a ceiling would involve moving all the lights and maybe the garage opener for the big door. I am thinking about getting a torpedo heater for this winter and then doing some more planning for next winter if my home based business takes off. Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[JohnK007]

Here's my spin for what it's worth. I think you're a perfect candidate for a waste oil heater. Because A) you generate 10 gallons of oil every month and a half which you could stockpile during the warmer months for winter use, B) you live in a more temperate climate with a fairly limited number of "heating days", and C) you only need to heat while you're working. It's not like you will always be keeping the shop at 70 deg. for days on end. Put in a ceiling fan or two to circulate the warm air, maybe supplement the oil furnace with your torpedo if need be, and you're good to go.

Downside is, the waste oil heaters I've seen aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Iann128]

Yeah I think the waste oil is the way to go and I got a quote for around 7k installed plus tax I could swing the cost but wow that is a lot of money up front. I may wait to see how this new business takes of this winter then save up the oil and money for next winter. I might be able to get it cheaper in the summer when they need the work Right now they are 3-4 weeks out to even put one in.

 

[Shop Specialties]

Yeah I think the waste oil is the way to go and I got a quote for around 7k installed plus tax I could swing the cost but wow that is a lot of money up front. I may wait to see how this new business takes of this winter then save up the oil and money for next winter. I might be able to get it cheaper in the summer when they need the work Right now they are 3-4 weeks out to even put one in.

I like to see my smaller shops start the Winter with at least 500 gallons ready to go. We run promotions during the Summer that can save you big $$$. Right now depending on weather I tell customers I can usually get it done within 2 weeks. 3-4 weeks is a long time in the middle of Winter when people want it right now.

 

[Shop Specialties]

They finally got the website up and running for the radiant heater. Made in the USA and much better than any torpedo heater on the market.

http://www.sunfireheater.com

 

[Firebrick43]

Have no idea of the trusses are "rated" for ceiling as they were site built and not "engineered" I know I can hang my 250lb body off them and they don't flex... Putting up a ceiling would involve moving all the lights and maybe the garage opener for the big door. I am thinking about getting a torpedo heater for this winter and then doing some more planning for next winter if my home based business takes off. Thanks for all the input guys.

The trusses will be fine for a corrugated metal liner. With the purlins it actually adds great strength to the structure do to creating a diaphragm