Heating/Cooling for New 36X24 Garage with Loft

[lake marine]

In framing stage of a 36X24 Garage with loft. I wanted to have a wood stove to augment heating but insurance agent said no one will insure.
With that said I'm looking into a dual mini-split but my only knowledge is of what Ive recently perused on the web.
20,000 BTU garage level (800sqft) and 15,000BTU loft (600sqft)
I'm in VA. (Zone 4 I read?) Winter occasional temps in teens (F) and seldom single digits with typical summer in low 90's seldom triples but high humidity.
Would a dual zone 36K unit keep garage/loft warm/cool? Any recommendations on brand?
Would it be better to be looking into a regular HVAC like a 3Ton?
Lake

 

[jack stand]

Personally I'd do the mini splits. Get a guy out there to suggest what he'd reccomend and a quote.
Just for comparison, do the same with a ducted conventional set up that you're probably familiar with.
Putting in our m/s was one of the most satisfying expenditures that I've ever made. Your shop should be a 1 day job a 2-3 man crew from my experience.

 

[lake marine]

Thanks Jack and sorry for the late response (I read it when you posted). I'm still waiting on the HVAC guy that services my house to give me a quote for a heat pump and a separate quote for mini split.
I just strated to look at pricing and it appears I could do two separate units cheaper than a dual unit but I dont know if that makes sense to have two outdoor units.
Lowes carries a MrCool 36000BTU dual but its $4K Lowes - Mr Cool 36K BTU
What brand did you install?
Though it seems stright forward for me to do im just leery id pay higher if I ever need service if I dont use an HVAC company install.

 

[jlv03]

I just strated to look at pricing and it appears I could do two separate units cheaper than a dual unit but I dont know if that makes sense to have two outdoor units.

A single outdoor unit (condenser) makes sense if you are limited on space or after a certain look. If you have the sapce, usually the single head units are better efficiency. There's also a nice bonus of having a bit of redundancy, if one of the units needs to go down for service or maintenance.

 

[eegger]

Do a 2 zone Mini Split, also check you local utility Co , for rebates. Mine rebates $350 per 12000btu. So that may also help you with costs.

Depending on how you insulate, you may only need a 24000BTU, That is about what I am looking at for myself, for a 32X40X10 1250sq ft

 

[lake marine]

There's also a nice bonus of having a bit of redundancy, if one of the units needs to go down for service or maintenance.

Thanks for the response. Assuming I follow you on this.... two different units...one 20k BTU for garage and a 15k BTU for loft. I think I will have space for a single head for garage and a single head for loft.
But - since they will be for two separate areas - how could reduncancy be applied if one goes down since they are separate areas.

 

[eegger]

Thanks for the response. Assuming I follow you on this.... two different units...one 20k BTU for garage and a 15k BTU for loft. I think I will have space for a single head for garage and a single head for loft.
But - since they will be for two separate areas - how could reduncancy be applied if one goes down since they are separate areas.

not really redundancy, just you wouldn't lose all of the cooling and heat with, having 2 units. 1 unit goes down, you just have a lower capacity.

 

[lake marine]

I contacted my residential HVAC company for a quote on a standard economy grade heat pump as well as quote for his recommendation on a mini-split. He said the mini-split was the way to go and opted not to quote the heat pump at all.
Anyway I was floored by the quote:
install RUN-Tru by Trane 2 head 2 ton each with one outdoor unit.
Unit 15 seer HSPF 8.2 EER9.1
install line sets for each head.
install electrical and drain lines.
install power wiring to new unit.
install disconnect breaker type.
warranty 1 year on all labor 10 year on all parts on Trane equipment.
test and clean up.
$9,000.00

Anyway I need to get off my a*s and start planning. In looking at my loft I dont have a wall to mount and the ceiling mounted cassette" style wont fit between rafters.
Any ideas on where to install the head in this space?

 

[PoorUB]

Mount it on wall by the bathroom. Heck, you can mount it down on the knee wall, but best to mount them high for AC.

Add a ceiling fan to help move air around.

You could put a ducted unit in the attic and put in a hatch for access. You probably will have to insulate that portion of the attic.

My buddy had a smaller house and the whole upstairs was a one room bedroom, hip roof, about three foot knee walls. He put in a mini split with the head mounted about three feet off the floor on the knee wall and he said it worked fine.

 

[lake marine]

You could put a ducted unit in the attic

Thanks for that info - had not seen those. Just now searching them and also see "floor standing" units which could also work. Was trying to keep head somewhat centered in the loft area - maybe that doesn't matter. Ive never had mini split so new to me.

Also kind of indecisive on whether or not to do a dual or to have two separate units.
In garage, directly below the shown dormer is the wall location I'd like to mount head for garage area and the condenser would be on exterior of that same wall.
If I can find/install a dual unit with a wall mount head for garage and possibly do a floor standing mounted on pony wall to the left side of that dormer in loft.
I haven't seen that kind of a combo but have only been looking on HD and Lowes websites.
Im still waiting on windows (been 13 weeks) so lost focus but damn its gettng cold and I dont know what brand to choose and if they'll be long lead like the windows!

 

[PoorUB]

Also kind of indecisive on whether or not to do a dual or to have two separate units.

Two single head units are simpler. A dual head, if one fails it might stop the operation of both. A dual head takes less wiring.

Unit placement might make a difference, how far a part are the indoor heads. It might be easier to install two single head units.

Personally, unless the price for install was extremely higher, I would go with two single head units, and I used to sell and install them!

The install is about the same other than consider one run of wire from the panelper outdoor unit. Two single heads, two circuit breakers and two runs of wire to the outdoor units. Every thing else is about the same.

 

[lake marine]

Ok thanks others mentioned two units as well. Wiring is not a problem. What’s your opinion on the “floor standing” and locating it to the left corner of dormer?
Any opinions on the mr cool losers or pioneer at HD or other place’s to source DIY pre charged?

 

[PoorUB]

Ok thanks others mentioned two units as well. Wiring is not a problem. What’s your opinion on the “floor standing” and locating it to the left corner of dormer?
Any opinions on the mr cool losers or pioneer at HD or other place’s to source DIY pre charged?

No opinion on any of that. You will have to decide best location, I just gave you choices.
As for brands, I am notsure one is better than the other and they might be made by he same company.

 

[lake marine]

Due to my wall configuration in loft (photo above) Im looking at the pioneer floor/ceiling mount unit.
Anyone have any opinions on Pioneer and/or floor/ceiling mount units?

 

[GMaze21]

I contacted my residential HVAC company for a quote on a standard economy grade heat pump as well as quote for his recommendation on a mini-split. He said the mini-split was the way to go and opted not to quote the heat pump at all.
Anyway I was floored by the quote:
install RUN-Tru by Trane 2 head 2 ton each with one outdoor unit.
Unit 15 seer HSPF 8.2 EER9.1
install line sets for each head.
install electrical and drain lines.
install power wiring to new unit.
install disconnect breaker type.
warranty 1 year on all labor 10 year on all parts on Trane equipment.
test and clean up.
$9,000.00

Anyway I need to get off my a*s and start planning. In looking at my loft I dont have a wall to mount and the ceiling mounted cassette" style wont fit between rafters.
Any ideas on where to install the head in this space?

Hey there, looks good man. I wanted to check to see if you have any more photos. I was curious about what is your wall height on the building, because it looks like you have a good amount of space up there! I am looking to build something similar myself so I wanted to see if you'd be willing to share some photos. Thanks!

 

[PoorUB]

Ok thanks others mentioned two units as well. Wiring is not a problem. What’s your opinion on the “floor standing” and locating it to the left corner of dormer?

How about an update?

 

[lake marine]

Hey there, looks good man.

Thanks - Wall height in garage is 10ft loft is 8ft roof is 12/12 pitch. I tinkered with the design quite a bit as covid pushed the start date. There are definitely a few things I would change but all in all im pleased. I'll finish insulation tomorrow in garage level and that will be complete minus workbenches, shelving and getting stereo/TV setup. The loft is pending drywall and once thats in im going to take my time and do the kitchenette which reminds me I need to move the outlet for microwave!

How about an update?

Well... I decided to go with the two separate units. Researched the hell out of Friedrich mini splits as was recommended by my garage builders nephew and planned to do a ceiling cassette but then decided not to as i didn't care of the thought of a non-gravity fed condensate requiring a pump in the ceiling (also the guy wouldnt call me back good riddance!). Ended up going with a 24K MUZGL24 wall style in garage and a 18K MUFZKJ18 floor standing for the loft - both are Mitsubishi. Total cost was $8350 installed but it should have been less as I ran the line wires, breakers, poured the compressor pad and prepped the walls for mounting. The "installer" said he would give me a break for doing all of that then reneged and said he gave me a deal on the units which was BS. Ive got insulation in and hopefully I have guy who'll do drywall loft for me. Ive done it before but that is young mans work! Im not planning on drywall in the garage for a while until I decide if I need anything else while I have decent access. I did faced R19 on the walls of garage (yes i know its flammable) and unfaced R30 in ceiling but couldn't stand the fibers so i added some 1R foam board that sits nicely up in the flanges of the i-beams and its a lot cleaner. I also added some plumbing (drain/water) for the loft "kitchenette" . Ive got some of those fake shutters on order to match house and then I hope to start setting up the garage and work the loft on rain days...its getting too much like a job!