Heating/Cooling with sprayfoam

[Clemson]

I have a 40x32 stick-built shop. Spray foam is going in next week. Once the slab is poured, there will be a 16x16 room in one corner. There is one 18' door and two man doors.

I have no idea or clue what my climate control options are. I want to heat/cool that 16x16 room. But since we opted to go ahead and spray foam the whole building, will that make climate control for the whole space more affordable?

Trying to catch any last minute items before things are spray foamed. Electrical and Cat6 is already in place.

 

[Clemson]

Forgot to add:

We don't have the option of natural gas. So we will have a propane for the tankless water heater to the house. Everything else is electric.

 

[yeldogt]

What is the reason for the room? -- that's a big chunk of the space.

I can heat 1700 sf in PA w/14k with temps under zero w/ foam .... I also factor 1k per ton of AC in PA with foam.

My guess is one 18k mini would do the whole place -- bit more heat in SC

 

[rok_hunter]

In the Florida panhandle, I've got a 30x40x12 enclosed pole barn with 2" of closed cell foam all around. It's got a 36k Mr Cool DIY mini split that pretty easily keeps in in the high 60's/low 70's in the summer (90-105 outside) and mid-high 70's in the winter (15-50 outside). That's with two 3x3 windows, walk through door, and 10x10 roll-up with no insulation.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have no idea or clue what my climate control options are. I want to heat/cool that 16x16 room. But since we opted to go ahead and spray foam the whole building, will that make climate control for the whole space more affordable?

YES !

I don't know if you plan on putting a "drop ceiling" over that room, but I strongly encourage it ! At least 6" of insulation in that ceiling will make a difference. Adding insulation in walls between the "office" and the "storage" area will only cost a few dollars and will also help, plus it will be quieter.

 

[Nivekdodge]

If you spray foam the entire building, anything that gets out of the 16x16 room will not leave the building. I sprayfoamed under the roof deck of my 1 1/2 story house. The cubbyholes (attic) are 4-5 degrees warmer or colder than my house.

 

[karoc]

This is such a good subject, with bldg that sealed so well with spray foam I believe a person is going to need one of those ERV units are several kids and grandkids going in/out door. So that enough fresh air is brought in so the interior will not smell stale. But I am wondering if that would happen I don't know

 

[Clemson]

With a mini split, can I have two different zones? One in the room and one in the bigger shop area?

I really only want to keep the bigger area tolerable. Our summers are so hot and humid. Winter is not really bad at all. So if I could keep it 80 in there during the summer that would be plenty good.

The 16x16 will eventually be my office. I have one inside right now, but if I end up staying full-time from home after covid, I will move out into that room. Made it bigger and put a window in it for that reason. Room for the dogs to hang out with me and a place to put some taxidermy work.

I will have a ceiling. The only thing not being done by the contractor is finishing the walls. I'll come back and do that later once wood prices get back to normal.

 

[Clemson]

If you spray foam the entire building, anything that gets out of the 16x16 room will not leave the building. I sprayfoamed under the roof deck of my 1 1/2 story house. The cubbyholes (attic) are 4-5 degrees warmer or colder than my house.

So if I condition the 16x16 room, the bigger area may be tolerable just from the leaked heat/air? I don't want an insane power bill.

Trying to get an idea of cost of the unit + electricity to see if its something I want to do. If its cost-prohibitive, I'll just insulate the 16x16 room and only condition it.

 

[Clemson]

YES !

I don't know if you plan on putting a "drop ceiling" over that room, but I strongly encourage it ! At least 6" of insulation in that ceiling will make a difference. Adding insulation in walls between the "office" and the "storage" area will only cost a few dollars and will also help, plus it will be quieter.

If I recall correctly, I have about a 9.5' ceiling. You probably know more than me, but I guess you get extra height because the walls sit on the brick foundation.

I'm pretty sure once they frame up the room, the walls will run from the cement pad to the ceiling. I will for sure insulate the 16x16 walls (only need to do two) and I can lay insulation overtop the room as well.

 

[yeldogt]

You don't indicate what the rest of the building is for ?

A 16x16 room in that building takes out a big chunk and renders the remaining not as useful -- have you done a space plan on how the office space will function and what space you need? How the remaining will function

With a fully insulated spray foam space the overall costs to condition will be low. I would never pull put the office space from the main building.

 

[kj_mustang]

Yes, I cool half my building, so about 24 x 32 with two floors, which equates to about 1300 sq feet with a 1.5 ton central unit.

 

[PWC Repair]

This sounds like the perfect use of a dual head mini-split. Something like the Mr.Cool 27k unit would be perfect. Put the 9k head in the room and the 18k out in the main building.

 

[yeldogt]

This sounds like the perfect use of a dual head mini-split. Something like the Mr.Cool 27k unit would be perfect. Put the 9k head in the room and the 18k out in the main building.

16x16 is 256sf ... 9k is still too big. My guess is with foam he is a bit over 12k for the whole building -- maybe 15k with some head room. Need to understand the turndown on the units

With spray foam in the building -- something he will have to do to control humidity ... the load on the 16x16 space will be almost nothing after removing the moisture from the main space.

The last thing you want to do is insulate the small space from the larger w/o independent control. I always insulate all the walls in my houses -- doing that requires room by room HVAC calculations w/ sized supply and returns in each room ... there is no room/room bleed as w/o.

 

[Clemson]

You don't indicate what the rest of the building is for ?

A 16x16 room in that building takes out a big chunk and renders the remaining not as useful -- have you done a space plan on how the office space will function and what space you need? How the remaining will function

With a fully insulated spray foam space the overall costs to condition will be low. I would never pull put the office space from the main building.

It's just a general shop/garage to work out of. I'll store the mower, tools, and hunting stuff in there. I plan to keep the 24x32 area as open as possible to have room for working on projects. Hoping most of my stuff will fit in the 15x15ish area that is in front of the 16x16 room.

I have an attached 3 car garage as well. So I figured I could do with the smaller shop area.

You don't think 24x32 will be sufficient for misc wood working projects and whatever else comes up? I don't really work on vehicles unless its something simple.

LOL, for the past 6 years I have only had a 20x10 prefab building with no power...so I feel like I am getting the biggest upgrade ever.

 

[Clemson]

You don't indicate what the rest of the building is for ?

A 16x16 room in that building takes out a big chunk and renders the remaining not as useful -- have you done a space plan on how the office space will function and what space you need? How the remaining will function

With a fully insulated spray foam space the overall costs to condition will be low. I would never pull put the office space from the main building.

How big of an issue will humidity be? Anything I should consider now? I still don't think it's actually been spray-foamed yet. The guy is having a hard time sourcing material because of shortages. But its supposed to be done this week, so I don't have a lot of time.

 

[kj_mustang]

If you sprayfoam everything with closed cell to a thickness that blocks all air and moisture migration, than unless you are opening a window or opening doors a bunch you should not induce much humidity to the inside. Also need to consider moisture coming up from the floor. Are you putting a vapor barrier under the concrete? If the foam job is done properly and thick enough, it will not take much air conditioning to cool it and remove any humidity.

 

[Clemson]

If you sprayfoam everything with closed cell to a thickness that blocks all air and moisture migration, than unless you are opening a window or opening doors a bunch you should not induce much humidity to the inside. Also need to consider moisture coming up from the floor. Are you putting a vapor barrier under the concrete? If the foam job is done properly and thick enough, it will not take much air conditioning to cool it and remove any humidity.

I'll ask the contractor about vapor barrier. Concrete has not been poured. He said he can't stand pouring cement first because it gets all dirty and drives him mad. So I think that happens once everything else is complete.

 

[yeldogt]

How big of an issue will humidity be? Anything I should consider now? I still don't think it's actually been spray-foamed yet. The guy is having a hard time sourcing material because of shortages. But its supposed to be done this week, so I don't have a lot of time.

You typically want to condition a foam building to some degree ..