Heating my beer can for the winter - thoughts

[dwysywd]

Ok. Here are my photos and then I will lay it out:
I built a 24x33 quanset hut. It's too cold to pour this winter now, so I'm planning to wait till late April. In the meantime, I am installing the door this weekend and need some advice.

I want to use the garage all winter. I still have grass/dirt on the ground. I could do a few things.
1) leave it alone, put down big piece of outdoor carpet and heat with salamander for winter
2) leave it alone, don't put outdoor carpet down, and heat with salamander. Just use some plywood as needed on ground.
3) dig it out now while still soft, put sand/rock down, tamp it, heat with salamander.

Other ideas? Also, I have not insulated it. I was going to buy the prodex, but a small financial crisis has put that $1500 expense on hold for now.


Sent from my bag phone...

 

[UpstateNY]

Put your location in your profile.

 

[HOTFR8]

Put your location in your profile.

A perfect example of a post where the location would help with the answer.
No point in me putting in a reply if you are in the USA or the UK.

 

[CNGsaves]

With no insulation (walls and ceiling), the floor being dirt or grass is last thing you should worry about for temporary heat.

Just run your salamander heater with plenty of ventilation (crack door/window) if the building is tight.

No use spending money on temporary floor that you'll tear out in spring.

My 2 daughters were star fast-pitch softball pitchers and they practiced all winter in dirt floor barns. Torpedo heaters ran only when needed to keep the barns warm enough to be bearable.

Your quanset hut shop will be fine with salamander/torpedo heater this winter as is.

 

[InsanePyro]

With no insulation (walls and ceiling), the floor being dirt or grass is last thing you should worry about for temporary heat.

Just run your salamander heater with plenty of ventilation (crack door/window) if the building is tight.

No use spending money on temporary floor that you'll tear out in spring.

My 2 daughters were star fast-pitch softball pitchers and they practiced all winter in dirt floor barns. Torpedo heaters ran only when needed to keep the barns warm enough to be bearable.

Your quanset hut shop will be fine with salamander/torpedo heater this winter as is.

Keep moving you'll forget its cold!

 

[bczygan]

Use a heater that heats objects (You) and not the air. Infrared!

Propane powered.

Keep it close and pointed at you.

Sheet off the area you aren't working in with some plastic.

Dress properly.

Get someone else to do the work.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

A perfect example of a post where the location would help with the answer.
No point in me putting in a reply if you are in the USA or the UK.

I read all his prior posts to find he is near me in lower SE MI.

He'll be getting pretty cold, very soon.

Bill

 

[HOTFR8]

I read all his prior posts to find he is near me in lower SE MI.

He'll be getting pretty cold, very soon.

Bill

Still you can see how it helps to have a location in your profile.

Stay warm.

Expecting another heat wave here before the end of the week.

 

[dwysywd]

Put your location in your profile.

Thanks for the reminder! Done
Reason I forgot was i set this account up through TapTalk and it doesn't allow you edit location on that app. So, I just started using the website. Most of my browsing GJ is done on Tap.

BUT I completely agree, needed or should have at least put that in my initial question.

Also got to update my sig.

as for the responses, Thanks for the answers guys, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't or shouldn't expect any issues. I plan to insulate in the spring, but the super caulk doesn't want to stick to the cold metal. So I have to wait to hang furring strips. So, I figured I'd use it this winter b/c its a dry place to work on stuff and it has doors, so I can keep most of the heat localized.

Anyone see any issues with putting down a piece of outdoor carpet? I have a spare 15x15 piece laying around. I would be nice to work on things and not have to lay in the dirt or damp floor.

 

[404]

Suggest you cover the grass with some vapor barrier. Otherwise the humidity in your can will rise to be the same as the humidity in the grass or dirt.

 

[theoldwizard1]

#3 is the way to go, but given the winter we are having any heavy equipment/truck would sink in up to their axle in the sod before getting to your "half a beer can".

 

[HOTFR8]

Thanks for the reminder! Done
Reason I forgot was i set this account up through TapTalk and it doesn't allow you edit location on that app. So, I just started using the website. Most of my browsing GJ is done on Tap.

BUT I completely agree, needed or should have at least put that in my initial question.

Also got to update my sig.

as for the responses, Thanks for the answers guys, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't or shouldn't expect any issues. I plan to insulate in the spring, but the super caulk doesn't want to stick to the cold metal. So I have to wait to hang furring strips. So, I figured I'd use it this winter b/c its a dry place to work on stuff and it has doors, so I can keep most of the heat localized.

Anyone see any issues with putting down a piece of outdoor carpet? I have a spare 15x15 piece laying around. I would be nice to work on things and not have to lay in the dirt or damp floor.

Thank you for updating and best of luck finding some heat.

 

[dfiler2]

You might want to check out this thread on the bubble wrap insulation.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57607

 

[Bib Overalls]

I'm an old soldier and I have inhabited general purpose tents, quonset huts, and block shacks in the winter in delightful tropic locations like Baumholder, Grafenwoehr, Hohenfels, and Wildflecken. Learned a couple of things from it. The first is that once anything is cold soaked it stays cold soaked until spring. The only thing a pot bellied stove (or salamander) is good for is drying out your socks and gloves. And finally even if the ground outside is frozen solid the dirt floor in your tent will be mud. We put down the cardboard from C-Ration cases. I think plywood or OSB would be better but at $10 a sheet your quonset would need $250 worth and come spring it will have to be buried of burned. The best option I saw was sawdust. For some reason the officers got it but the enlisted swine used cardboard. The sawdust will soak up the moisture and tamp down. If a spot got muddy you simply spread more on.

 

[dwysywd]

Well sawdust is one thing I can get a lot of! Friends own a saw mill. We get hard wood sawdust from them to run our smokehouses at the butcher shop.


Sent from my bag phone...

 

[lakeroadster]

Well sawdust is one thing I can get a lot of! Friends own a saw mill. We get hard wood sawdust from them to run our smokehouses at the butcher shop.


Sent from my bag phone...

That would be very flammable.... and would kick up dust anytime you moved around.. so no open flame heat sources.

 

[Dragfluid]

That would be very flammable.... and would kick up dust anytime you moved around.. so no open flame heat sources.

I don't think that dust is going to be much of a issue, if he's going to be heating with a salamander. It's going to rain like hell in that thing!

 

[lakeroadster]

I don't think that dust is going to be much of a issue, if he's going to be heating with a salamander. It's going to rain like hell in that thing!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

https://www.osha.gov/dsg/combustibledust/

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Get a bunch of hay bales and stack them next to the building on the sides without a door about 3-4' high to use as a wind break to help keep it a little warmer in there.

 

[jlckmj]

If it was mine, I would take the top soil out, lay screenings or traffic bond down and run a compactor over it. You have to do it prior to the concrete pour anyway.

With that base you are on a pretty solid ground and not mud, you can lay a sheet of plywood on it while working under vehicles or equipment.

Jim

 

[Sureshot]

If it isn't frozen do the floor. Why wait?

 

[dwysywd]

@sureshot Cause the weather is turning and its too cold to pour a big slab and not have it get all cracked up. We have a lot more humidity and moisture in the winter than SD has. So every cement guy I talked to (5 to be exact, all friends) said wait till spring. imho, Nice sig pic!

As for the door, going up Sunday. I have a 12w X 8h roller door. Need that done asap.

As for the sawdust, I rethought that considering my heat source.

As for the floor, I am going to excavate with the bobcat. My neighbor said I could use his and I have operated them before. I am going 8" down and backfilling with rock. I ordered extra rocks to bring the height up some. I will use them outside to pour my approach in the spring when I pour the floor. I have a nice 15x15 outdoor carpet I am going to use over the rock where I can work. And I have a vapor barrier I will put under the rocks before they go in.

As for heat... not sure if I plan to use the salamander or not. I have a few options. I have a really nice generac 4000k continuous generator that I could use and put some electric heat sources in... and just let it run when I come out. I plan to tinker with solar heat this winter just for fun. Found some cool projects to work on. I will start a thread on my progress.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Suggest you cover the grass with some vapor barrier. Otherwise the humidity in your can will rise to be the same as the humidity in the grass or dirt.

^ yep

 

[TheEquineFencer]

If it was mine, I would take the top soil out, lay screenings or traffic bond down and run a compactor over it. You have to do it prior to the concrete pour anyway.

With that base you are on a pretty solid ground and not mud, you can lay a sheet of plywood on it while working under vehicles or equipment.

Jim

^ I agree with the above, itll help it be more settled by spring....

 

[Dragfluid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

https://www.osha.gov/dsg/combustibledust/

I wasn't really disagreeing with you. Dust can be very dangerous.
My point was, that tin heated with an open flame is going to turn it into a rain forest.
For what the OP is going to spend on heating an uninsulated shell in MI, with a dirt floor, I think all around it's just a bad idea. We all want to be in our sheds as soon as possible and have fun. I'm chomping at the bit to get mine completed. But wait and do it right, or don't do it is the way I look at it.
JMHO, of course.

 

[lakeroadster]

My point was, that tin heated with an open flame is going to turn it into a rain forest.

I couldn't agree more. The OP needs to wait for warmer weather... or buy some thermal underwear.

 

[theoldwizard1]

As for the floor, I am going to excavate with the bobcat.

My gut says it will sink in up to the axles and be stuck until late spring unless you have a neighbor with one of those GIANT 4 wheel drive tractors.

What you need is a Bobcat/small skid steer WITH TRACKS !

 

[theoldwizard1]

As for the sawdust, I rethought that considering my heat source.

If your source has a lot of hardwood saw dust, he should look into buying a pellet mill. It will turn sawdust/wood chips into wood pellets. Small ones are not that expensive.

Down side is that the sawdust/wood chips MUST be stored inside and kept dry before and after processing.

Hardwood pellets are worth $$$

 

[simpler=better]

You want "slip sheets" they're the 40"x48" sheets of corrugated fiberboard that go between layers on pallets.

Any warehouse, box plant, recycling center, paperboard converter, etc will have 5 bazillion of them for free or cheap.

As for sinking tires, my parts vehicles have been on el cheapo 3/8" OSB for the last few years, literally sitting in the woods uncovered. No sinking.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If it was mine, I would take the top soil out, lay screenings or traffic bond down and run a compactor over it. You have to do it prior to the concrete pour anyway.

With that base you are on a pretty solid ground and not mud, you can lay a sheet of plywood on it while working under vehicles or equipment.

Jim

^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^

Charles

 

[dwysywd]

LoL, I think sometimes you guys don't read all the posts before you comment.

I'm taking the dirt out! I'm putting rock Down! I'm not heating it all winter, just when I need a place to work and knock the chill off. You can't spend all winter sucking hind teet because you don't want to be in a cold shed!

So, yes, I modified my original thoughts, but it's all there...
Thanks for the feedback. And who needs long underwear when you have Carhartt bibs, both insulated and non with a nice jacket.

 

[RPH]

Interesting question, I live about 40 miles north of you and had the contractor out for quotes on the barn floor. Another coming tonite. Mine going to get poured here in January, lots of pouring going on yet because cold hasn't hit here yet. Looking at temps going out the next few weeks it appears middle of January will be fine temperature wise. Another thing that has improved over the years is the chemistry of cement, so many new additives that can be added for desired changes in the cure. As it was stated somewhere here on this site " it's Canada and we pour all year round! " . Think about it.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Interesting question, I live about 40 miles north of you and had the contractor out for quotes on the barn floor. Another coming tonite. Mine going to get poured here in January, lots of pouring going on yet because cold hasn't hit here yet. Looking at temps going out the next few weeks it appears middle of January will be fine temperature wise. Another thing that has improved over the years is the chemistry of cement, so many new additives that can be added for desired changes in the cure. As it was stated somewhere here on this site " it's Canada and we pour all year round! " . Think about it.

That's sort of what I was thinking...I've seen concrete poured around here in below 32* temps.

I'd cut out what I wanted and install the fill, tamp it and let it settle good if I wasn't in a hurry though.

 

[dwysywd]

Gtk! I will make some calls Monday!


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[Sureshot]

Interesting question, I live about 40 miles north of you and had the contractor out for quotes on the barn floor. Another coming tonite. Mine going to get poured here in January, lots of pouring going on yet because cold hasn't hit here yet. Looking at temps going out the next few weeks it appears middle of January will be fine temperature wise. Another thing that has improved over the years is the chemistry of cement, so many new additives that can be added for desired changes in the cure. As it was stated somewhere here on this site " it's Canada and we pour all year round! " . Think about it.

I have seen them pouring concrete here in -30 temps. I would think inside a building it would be a cakewalk. High humidity and cool temps should make for a nice cure.

I did my addition in Dec or Jan in an enclosed building. We covered the ground with plastic and square bales until the structure went up to prevent any frost from getting in the ground. If it freezes it is big money to thaw it out or wait until spring.

We used to supply containment for excess oilwell cement in 8x20x3 bins and you could dump them a few days after the job in -20 weather and the middle of the "brick" would be too hot to hold your hand on it.

 

[dwysywd]

Wow. Great advice. Not sure why the cement guys are backing off. But excavating the 6" of dirt anyhow and gonna back fill with rock. Then look to pour. It's somewhat cash flow driven too. But might have the Motorhome sold this weekend. So that'd solve the money issue. I can always pour the outside apron and back 10x24 pad in spring. Would love having the inside finished though.


Sent from my bag phone...

 

[lakeroadster]

Wow. Great advice. Not sure why the cement guys are backing off.

Because good conscientious concrete contractors understand that pouring concrete in temperatures under 40 F. requires additives and pre / post pour heating to ensure good strong concrete.

Sure you can find somebody to pour in freezing weather.... when it comes to concrete there are so many contractors doing it wrong it is mind boggling.

 

[Sureshot]

In Saskatchewan the temps drop to frost level over 200 days a year so that would make the construction season very short. I am sure people have their reasons but I do know much is done in winter under tarps etc for commercial stuff and inside shells for farm and homeowner stuff. The main thing has always been not to let it freeze before hand.
Maybe it just takes longer for the same job and the contractor's want to enjoy more down season. I am friends with a contractor and they usually have a few months off but have worked through the whole winter the last few years and they are very selective on taking jobs and turn away more work than they do.
Interesting different perspectives.

 

[dwysywd]

Bought all the fixings to put a barrel wood stove with a second heat exchanger barrel on top. $460 Menards. Pictures to follow. And no concrete till spring. Going to put outdoor carpet down till spring. Good enough for now. And it ensures I don't have concrete issues with the weather swings. It's supposed to be a low of 15 and a high of 40 this week. And who knows for next week.

 

[theoldwizard1]

And it ensures I don't have concrete issues with the weather swings. It's supposed to be a low of 15 and a high of 40 this week. And who knows for next week.

SMART !

Weather this winter has been crazy !