Heating opinions

[badbass]

This is my first post although I've been looking through older ones since this site was recommended and have seen some great stuff so far. I am currently building my first garage and already have a few regrets so am hoping for some advice and opinions before making a decision. I was stupid and didn't run any pex in my slab so radiant isn't viable but in a few days I will be meeting with an HVAC guy for options and prices. For a background my garage is 32 x 44 ft with ceiling height just shy of 12 ft. Attic has R50 blow in and walls are R22 batt. Pad has 2 layers of 2 inch styrofoam and 3 garage doors are 10 x 8 with R14.7. I am in Ontario where I expect the furnace to run 5 months a year (we've just had 2 weeks with an average temp of -20 C/-4 F) . Originally I was thinking just a hanging Mr. Heater but hear a lot of bad and how expensive they can be to run so was looking at other name brands and options. Radiant tube was mentioned but the guy I've spoken with so far isn't a fan and suggests 2 things before seeing my place. The first was a Reznor unit...he claims he has done a lot of them the past 3 years with little or no complaints. The other which he is pushing for cost and efficiency is an actual furnace with a little duct work. His plan would be to have the furnace suspended so I won't lose any floor space. Very little work will be done in the shop...it will be more storage for my boat and fishing and Hunting stuff. What are everyone's thoughts and experiences? Is there another option I should be asking about?

 

[The Cobbler]

I have a modine hanging heater & am happy with it . Mr Heater is roughly the same, perhaps somewhat cheaper .

 

[finn]

One thing to consider if using a high efficiency house furnace is how to get rid of the liquid condensate.

The condensate has to be freeze protected so that locks you into continuous heat during the entire winter. You also need some type of underground freeze protected drain capable of getting rid of five gallons of water per day. And, no, just running a line out through the wall won’t work in sub zero temperatures.

 

[ripperd]

Hanging unit heater. Cheaper than a house furnace, just as reliable. If not more reliable, since they have fewer parts and complexity.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If you go with a hanging heater what would your fuel source be?

If there are any other lurkers that are out there...when you get ready to ask the question "How should I heat my garage?" it would be somewhat helpful to know what options are even available to you.

BTW...kudo's to Badbass for filling out his profile, because question 2 is "Where do you live?".

And really, Badbass, what I'm getting at here is if Natural Gas is available, a hanging unit heater is the "go to" solution here. The only reason I would go with a furnace and duct work would be if AC was also going to be installed.

The next question as to "Which one" depends on your budget and how you expect to heat it. If occasional heating is the answer...a standard 80% hanging heater is really your only option. If "all the time" is the answer....you might want to spring for a high efficiency hanging heater. We have a few of the Modine effinity line at work, and they are great, but as a previous poster pointed out....you have to worry about condensate freezing if you go with high efficiency gas.

Now here I am assuming gas is even available.

Phil

 

[badbass]

Thanks for the input so far. Never thought about the water aspect...I do have 2 floor drains but not ideal. As for what heat source is available I'm very hopeful that it will be gas but have to wait for a technician to do some research. Our property is one of 2 on a dead end road. The other has natural gas as does the house at the intersection however when I called the gas supplier for an estimate to run lines the best they could say was between $2000 and $10000...just a bit of a range. I do plan to keep it heated daily although probably low heat (maybe 45 F) unless I have some work to do. If the install for natural gas is too expensive in my opinion I guess that really only leaves Propane as the next best source. 2 more days and I should have his advice and I'll bug everyone again to see if they agree or feel I'm being sold on something that may not suit. Again thanks for the help

 

[jmiller_2308]

I'll share my experience with both a Hot Dawg and a conventional furnace.

In my original garage I hung the Modine Hot Dawg for heat (I'm in MN so only a little warmer than where you are). The Hot Dawg was good for a shop where I only heated it occasionally but it was loud and the wind from it (60K unit) was really obnoxious. When I later wanted to add cooling I had to run a split a/c unit which ultimately didn't work very well for my situation. A significant issue for me was that in an almost 900 sqft space with only one heat source the garage had significant hot and cold spots and the floor was always cold. Cost wise I think the furnace heating/cooling both garages is actually comparable to what the unit heater cost to cool just the original garage.

Another aspect of the hot dawg failure was that it was in a garage that was also a parking garage so the doors were opened and closed at least a few times a day. All in all, the Hot Dawg had a few minor issues with a glow igniter and an overtemp sensor so pretty reliable but did require some effort. Oh yes, the hot dawg has no filter on it and I suspect that was part of the failed part issues.

When I added on for my new shop (just shy of 1000 sqft) I didn't want to replicate the dual heat/ac options as adding another split really made the whole thing very expensive. I also wanted something quieter as well as better heat distribution. I went with a conventional furnace that was not a high efficiency that is hung from the ceiling. I have a small amount of duct work that runs along the front of the shop above the garage doors. I was also able to run a trunk into the old garage (the two garages are separated by a wall.

With the A/C aspect, this solution was significantly cheaper than using another unit heater and A/C. The duct work has worked wonders to remove hot/cold spots. The furnace has only been in 4 years now but so far no issues at all. The filter is changed regularly and it is amazing how much **** comes out of the air from the various projects I work on. The furnace is also significantly quieter and I recently made it even quieter and cleaner looking by building a cabinet around it. Finally, when the blower is running the wind doesn't blast me out of where I am working or even blow my papers around.

Since I'm in my shop almost everyday the furnace solution with A/C really is a significant improvement over a unit heater. If you however are really going to use the building primarily as storage and don't think you will ever add A/C then I'd have to agree with others that a unit heater will likely meet your needs and be cheaper. Since you won't be in there working a lot you can probably live with issues that I didn't like.

 

[nsula_country]

jmiller hit the nail on the head. 1400 sq/ft I'd definitely look at forced air.

Personally I like the idea of a furnace (with or without a AC coil) with ductwork. 80% in a shop will be more than fine. No condensate to worry about. Also, with forced air you can filter the air. Handy in a shop.

CT

 

[Jazz1]

I find some of the low end hanging gas furnaces noisy
so i would be looking at higher end units. JMHO
I have put up with the crackle of a fire but eventually may add a gas furnace

 

[gmcgeo]

by your measurements of your garage if you want it to be at 68 deg you need 52,746 workable btus, that is with what sounds to be very good insulation there.

if you want 55 deg you need 42,662 workable btus. in this case i would prob stay with around 52,000 btus

my opinion would be a hot dawg modine HD60LP this has 60,000 btu/hr input and 49,200 btu/hr output it will hang from the ceiling and can be a o clearance unit meaning you can set it on wood or let it touch to the ceiling. however i recommend letting in hang 6" from the ceiling. then it vents with 3" b-vent out the exterior wall.

mr heater will also work i just don't deal with those much. just remember your workable load has to be around 50,000 btu/hr to get the desired temp in most temperatures

modine also sells a separated combustion models that draw 100% air from the outside for those who have a wood shop

 

[kTHREE]

Why not a radiant tube?
With 12' ceilings that would be a dream working on a warm floor.

 

[bobbyjean]

hanging unit heater...80% 75000btu ...lp is fine...i have the big maxx 50k for a 30/32/10..keeping it at 40 unoccupied and 55 occupied...sips fuel,works great
as long as you don't need ac...your good.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Reznor is a good brand of gas unit heater, I see them used all the time on commercial projects. I don't think any unit heater would be considered particularly quiet, they are all kind of noisy when the fan is running.


Overhead radiant tube heat is a pretty good way to go as well, plus they're basically silent. One thing is that you have to get a heater that's specifically designed for the lower ceilings in a residential garage - many of them are meant for industrial applications where the ceiling is 15 or 20 feet high, if one of those heaters was installed in a lower ceiling it would be too close to the floor (and would probably cook the paint on your car.)


There have been a number of people here on the board who have used regular house furnaces with good results, it seems like they typically get hold of a used furnace from somewhere and just install it in a corner of the garage with minimal ductwork.


Whatever you get, make sure it's a sealed unit that uses outside air for combustion so you don't have to worry about carbon monoxide.

Why not a radiant tube?
With 12' ceilings that would be a dream working on a warm floor.

Radiant floor heating is nice, but his floor is already in place - he'd have to tear it up and start over to install the tubing.

 

[soj]

Radiant floor heating is nice, but his floor is already in place - he'd have to tear it up and start over to install the tubing.

Maybe he was referring to infrared radiant.

 

[kTHREE]

Maybe he was referring to infrared radiant.

Yep, never heard radiant tube referring to in floor before.

 

[LocoCoco]

an estimate to run lines the best they could say was between $2000 and $10000...just a bit of a range. I do plan to keep it heated daily although probably low heat (maybe 45 F) unless I have some work to do. If the install for natural gas is too expensive in my opinion I guess that really only leaves Propane as the next best source...

As a fellow Ontarian who moved from rural propane to urban gas, I can say the price difference is significant. Heating our former 900 sq.ft. bungalow alone with propane cost more than our current 1500 sq.ft 2-story PLUS a 1100 sq.ft garage (15-20°C) on gas.

That said, go for gas if at all possible. Even at $10K I'll wager it'll pay for itself in less than 10 years once you switch your house over too.

Good luck!

 

[Zaxxn]

I am heating 1,400sqft with 14' ceilings very comfortably with a SRP radiant tube heater. Quiet, even heat with no air blowing around. Somehow feels different than a shop heated with unit heater(s), which I had where I used to work on my cars. Different kind of heat, somehow more "comfy" if that makes sense for a shop...

--Zax