heating questions for a 24x24 detached garage

[snowman51789]

hi, im building a 24x24 detached garage (actually a pole barn) this coming fall and I will be insulating it. my plan was to just get a kerosene or propane torpedo heater. I did not plan on heating it all the time. just when I will be in it working on snowmobiles and other toys I have. my plan is to start looking for one now and maybe I will get a good deal on a used one over the summer but I want to make sure im not buying something that is to small or way to big and just burns extra fuel.

1) how big of a heater will I need? Ideally id like for the garage to be up to 55-60 in a half hour to an hour. I live in south east mighigan so the outside temp would probably be 0-25 degrees

2) other then convenience is there any other pros/cons to kerosene vs propane?

3) is natural gas much cheaper then propane or kerosene? I could run a natural gas line threw my basement and pop out of the house foundation about 15ft from the garage however I don't plan on staying in the house more then 2-4 years so im not sure if it will be worth the extra work however I am cheap so if it will pay off, ill do the work. if I used a natural gas heater it will be a torpedo style not a furnace.

4) in all my searching it seams like most of you heat your garages 24/7, is that a cheaper option? I could see how using a smaller heater around the clock might be cheaper then a big one for a short time. I would probably be in my garage 3 nights a week after work and maybe one day of the week.

thanks

Dave

 

[snowman51789]

I used a btu calculator and it told me that I only needed 20k-30k btu heater but from what little experience I have with torpedo heaters that seams way to small. I was thinking that calculation may be for if I was going to heat continuously. im just not how big I would need to heat it up from what ever the outside temp is.

I did some thinking and I think I would probably only heat it up to 60 and if it got up to say around 50 in an hour I think that would be enough

 

[BillK]

Kerosene torpedo heaters stink the place up and are noisy. Any torpedo heater will also put moisture in the air. If you have natural gas that is absolutely the best way to go but I would spend a few dollars more and get a real vented furnace. You might even be able to get a "scratch and dent" house type for cheap. Or buy one of the Mr Heater types. It will be worth it.

 

[snowman51789]

I was trying to stay away from a vented furnace because we plan on moving and I would like to take the heater with me. if I have a vented stationary funace they might try to right it in the contingency's that the furnace stays.

will natural gas also make the garage humid?

 

[BillK]

will natural gas also make the garage humid?

Yes if it is not vented.

If you are going to stay there for 4 years or even 2 years it will be well worth the extra investment to install a vented heater. Don't even worry about taking it with you. It will add value to the garage anyway, why would you want to remove it ????

 

[snowman51789]

The reason I want to take it with me is because money is a little tight. So when we move the only expence I will have to worry about is maybe $75 in plumbing for natural gas and not another $400+ for another heater

 

[sands35]

A wall thimble for the vent is around $50-100 or so installed. The vent pipe you can take with you. The thimble is the only thing you will leave behind other than the gas plumbing.

 

[snowman51789]

Ive read a little more about vented heaters and I am starting to lab that way if I can find maybe a used one. However dose anyone know what size I works need?

To me 30k btu seems to small to get it up to 60 in an hour or so.

 

[buddyboy]

if money is tight, take the money you have set aside to build this building and get a 3 or 4 year CD.

you could be taking a risk that the building will decrease your resale value, it could add to it.

also your insurance rates may go up along with property taxes.

all in all, you may be money behind just to have a garage to get by with for a few years, where if you waited you could get the garage you wanted.

a typical buyer will just see a garage, not that you spent extra on insulation or heating or higher grade materials.

 

[theoldwizard1]

3) is natural gas much cheaper then propane or kerosene?

MUCH CHEAPER !! Depending on how many hours per season you are out there, it would likely pay back in 2-4 years.

Less choices for NG "portable" heaters.

4) in all my searching it seams like most of you heat your garages 24/7, is that a cheaper option?

No. It is a convenience issue. You don't state where you live, but it may NOT be possible to heat an un-insulate pole building up to a "comfortable" temp without multiple heaters.

My Dad lived in upper MI (not the U.P.). His stick built garage had no insulation. When the wind was blowing and the temps was in the teens, even with a god wood burner almost glowing cherry red, you were freezing *** cold if you were more than 20' away.

 

[theoldwizard1]

if money is tight, take the money you have set aside to build this building and get a 3 or 4 year CD.

Not much of an investor, are you ?

AT&T stock is paying 5.6%. AT&T dividend has NOT GONE DOWN in over 30 years !

What CD can compete with that ?

 

[buddyboy]

there are a lot of equities that are moderately safe and pay a larger dividend than what a CD would pay.

not knowing the posters investing experience and looking at a less than 4 year time frame, a CD or MM would most likely be the best choice.

I would not recommend putting funds that are needed in 4 to 5 years into one equity.

 

[buddyboy]

BTW T is down over $5/share since March of 2013

and

most equities over a 30 year time frame are either up or out of business

 

[Scott V]

For a 24x24 with 10ft ceiling you would need @ 37k BTU
http://www.calculator.net/btu-calcu...=60&temperatureunit=f&calctype=heat&x=59&y=16

Big Maxx or Modine Hot Dawg 50k is all you'll need. Take it with you when you move. Garage has to be well insulated or you'll be burning through the $$ on utility bill. My detached is 25.5 x 25.5 interior dimensions so it's close to yours. Big Maxx 50k works perfectly for this size. Maintains 50° during downtime and bumps to 65° in about a half hour.

 

[Falcon67]

I heat my shop with electric. It's not cheaper than propane, but it's close here. I also split the building to work areas to reduce heating and cooling costs. One day I may install a vented propane heater but it would never "pay back" the install cost because we just don't get that cold here and I only heat when needed. Pay Back would have to involve a 250 gallon tank along with plumbing the house fireplace, water heater, furnace and kitchen for gas. We do not have access to NG in this neighborhood, because if we did we'd have already gone NG. It's cheap enough that it would pay back quick vs all electric. Our house heating system pulls 60A when running, pulling power in at 0.135 per kWh.

I just had to have one of those little 30-60K BTU turbo heaters. Thought it would be nice to have. Works nice. Smells. Loud. Used it twice in 2013, it's been in the box since. Should have saved the $100.

I would use a vented NG heater in your building. I would also make sure I mounted and plumbed it so that it could easily be removed. The key there is that when it comes time to sell/move you will need to get it out before marketing the property. I would assume that buyers would consider it a "fixture" and if it was there when they looked, they'd expect it to be part of the purchase, unlike a clearly portable heater.

 

[Adk Mike]

Modine Hot Dawg model HD45. buy one on line run the natural gas to it. They are great.
I used a salamander for a weekend while my 12 year old Modine was down for a new circuit board.
Was glad to have the Modine again on Monday.

 

[snowman51789]

For a 24x24 with 10ft ceiling you would need @ 37k BTU
http://www.calculator.net/btu-calcu...=60&temperatureunit=f&calctype=heat&x=59&y=16

Big Maxx or Modine Hot Dawg 50k is all you'll need. Take it with you when you move. Garage has to be well insulated or you'll be burning through the $$ on utility bill. My detached is 25.5 x 25.5 interior dimensions so it's close to yours. Big Maxx 50k works perfectly for this size. Maintains 50° during downtime and bumps to 65° in about a half hour.

Can I ask what it roughly costs to heat your garage continuously and were you live?

I live in the most south east part of michigan about 3mins from Toledo Ohio.

And yes the garage is going to be insulated R19 on top and R13 in the walls. Since its going to be a pole barn and ill have the extra room I may even get some 2in foam board off Craig's list and put that in the walls as well.

I looked on Craig's list and I found that I can get a used ng torpedo heater for fairly cheap do I'm going to run the gas line try to save up for a hot dawg heater. Worst case ill get a torpedo of Craig's list and use that till next year.

Im going to go 1 size bigger so probably a 50k just in case my next garage is bigger (I hope I hope. haha)
I Am very interest about hearing about investments but right now my money is ******* in this house. I'm trying to "flip" this house.

Thanks for all the info. Now I just have to deal with my girl friend when I tell her I'm going to spend even more money haha.

 

[Scott V]

Sorry I missed this- have to laugh about the GF comment; I had the same concerns about the wife since she pays the utility bills, but she likes spending time in the garage too, so no worries about the increased bill. (I married well, lol)

I live in the Northern suburbs of Chicago; Morton Grove, IL, so we are probably on the same geo latitude. I can't really give you an accurate number on the gas bill increase since I've only run the garage heater this winter at the same time the house furnaces are running. I just bought the house in June 2014, so I don't have a baseline usage without the garage heater. If I had to guess I'd say maybe a $75-$100 increase during the really cold months. It will most likely be lower next winter with ALL the insulation up and insulating my garage door.

 

[rubiRI77]

I run a kerosene bullet (torpedoe) heater. last year that is all I ran and only when I was out there. Biggest problem was condensation on tools, etc. It makes sense because they are so brutally hot that the garage went from 15 degrees to 50 in about 10-15 minutes! Some of my tools now look like they were stored on an old salt water fishing boat!
The noise, stink, and risk of lack of oxygen was enough for me.
This year I am running a 5k watt electric ceiling unit, and use the bullet heater to bump it up a little on the real cold days.
The electric was way expense this year though!
Just an fyi on the tools sweating, etc.

 

[Adk Mike]

Modine Hotdawg is what I have same size shop same climate. Turn it on on Friday night off on Sunday at noon. longer if I'm drying paint. 150 Gallons of lpg a year. Worth it. I used a salmander while my unit was down for a repair. first time in 11 Years. You'Ill want the Hotdawg.

 

[6foot9]

I just bought a Harman pellet stove for my 25x27.

 

[dw1]

I just bought a Harman pellet stove for my 25x27.

I guess you havent had a chance to use your pellet stove much? I have been looking at them myself, any tips on them?

 

[theoldwizard1]

3) is natural gas much cheaper then propane or kerosene?

Much, MUCH cheaper ! If you have it, use it !

 

[burger]

My last garage was 24x24. A Dayton G73 electric heater comfortably heated it. Cheap to install (just plug it in (240v)) and you can take it with you when you move.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My last garage was 24x24. A Dayton G73 electric heater comfortably heated it. Cheap to install (just plug it in (240v)) ...

And expensive to operate !