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Heating up the garage?

whejdak

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Here is question that has bothered my for some time.
When heating up a three car garage, is it better to do so with the cars in or out. Not talking abou any dangers here. Simply is it going to heat quicker with two cars in place or quicker with the cars removed.

I have a 30,000 Mr. Heater that I'm using.
 
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The Metric System

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The garage will heat up faster with the cars out, a ton or two of metal has much higher thermal mass than an equivalent volume of air.

It's more complicated if you plan to then open the doors and pull the cars in to work on them. In this case you're still introducing all that cold metal as well as the heat loss associated with 1-2 door openings.
 

kbeefy

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If you want the cars in the garage it's better that they are in there already.

If your heating an uninsulated shop/garage to do something in it while the cars are outside, then it would heat faster if they were not in there sucking up heat as mentioned.

Where are you/how cold is it? Seems like a 30k is pretty small for any sort of recovery.
 
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whejdak

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If you want the cars in the garage it's better that they are in there already.

If your heating an uninsulated shop/garage to do something in it while the cars are outside, then it would heat faster if they were not in there sucking up heat as mentioned.

Where are you/how cold is it? Seems like a 30k is pretty small for any sort of recovery.
Wisconsin. 30,000 heats around 1,000 sq. ft
Three car around 850 to 1300 sq. ft.
Just need to keep from freezing to death while I'm out there working for a while.
 
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whejdak

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The garage will heat up faster with the cars out, a ton or two of metal has much higher thermal mass than an equivalent volume of air.

It's more complicated if you plan to then open the doors and pull the cars in to work on them. In this case you're still introducing all that cold metal as well as the heat loss associated with 1-2 door openings.
Sounds logical. Those cars would absorb more heat then the air. Got it.
Would not bring in cold cars and then heat up the garage.
 
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whejdak

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...But if you take each car out for a drive, warm them up and then park them in the garage with warm 200+ degree engines, everything will heat up fasteer.
That's an interesting point of view. However, I don't think I'll try that route. But, If I were to have been driving and returning. Park the car and turn the heater on and start working soon. Hummm!
 

evildky

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Depends on how well insulated your garage is.
Not really. Obviously if its not really weather tight heating it is a losing battle. If you want to heat it at all the first step is sealing it up and making it as air tight as possible, then hopefully some insulation or thermal barrier.

When all the stuff in your garage is 20 degrees and you want to get it up to 60, you heat the air to 60 then as the things in your garage begin to warm they cool the air and your back to heating again. It's like ice cubes in your drink. Your drink isn't going to get freezing cold but the melting ice brings the temperature down. All the things in your garage are ice cubes and until they are up to temperature they are bringing the temperature back down. It takes forever to raise the temperature in a meaningful way.

I keep my garage at 50-55 most of the time. if I'm working in the garage I sometimes bump it up a few degrees.
 

kbeefy

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I have a poorly insulated 2400' shop w/ 14' uninsulated roof and drafty overhead doors on both ends.
It is on a full slab, and that helps alot. I run a natural gas heater during daylight hours to keep it about 45 degrees in there. Overnight, if it's not below about 10 outside it's still stays above freezing without running the heater.
When I go out to do something, I'll turn up the heater (unit heater hanging on the ceiling) and it's 55 in about 10 minutes.
Without the slab it wouldn't work, it would either get too cold or cost to much to recover.

If it's below about 20 I don't try to heat it unless I have an RV or something in there thats freeze sensitive. Most of January I 'winterize' the shop and just don't go out there.
 

NUTTSGT

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Id say it probably depends on what you're actually doing. Something small and a 1/2 hour job, I wouldn't move the vehicles out. A large all day project, pull them out.

Fully insulating the garage (with good O/H doors) with keeping them shut, an attached garage will stay 10-15° warming than the outside air. It also becomes an investment on those heating & cooling dollars. Maintaining the temps will allow the concrete to absorb the heat you're spending your $$ on and will recover faster.
 

PoorUB

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Where are you/how cold is it? Seems like a 30k is pretty small for any sort of recovery.
North Dakota here. I did HVAC for a few years and we put 30,000 BTU heaters in 1,000 sq/ft garages all the time.

Most people, including heating contractors don't know what it takes so they toss a 60,000 BTU in the garage. sure it works, but being closer to the the BTU required is better than putting in something way over sized.
 

Ultradog MN

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My shop area is about 660 square feet.
I put a 65K furnace in a year ago.
Has R15 in the walls and R60 in the ceiling.
I do not keep it heated except if I want to do some work out there.
It's about 25 degrees outside today and always about 10 degrees warmer inside.
If I wanted to warm it up right now I could turn the heat on and have the air "light jacket comfortable" (50 degrees?) in there in about 15 minutes. If I wanted to bring the estimated 7-8 tons of heavy shop machines and tools up to 55 degrees it would take 3-4 hours. Heating the concrete floor up to 50 degrees would take much longer. I'm real glad I went with a bigger furnace.
 

tarmy

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Mass OP…we are talking mass. The slab once cold and the structure are fighting the heater until they are up to temp as well. The cars aren’t really the biggest issue.
 
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whejdak

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Some very interesting comments. Never thought that I would see this many.
Thanks all for your inputs.

I've been testing that 30,000 Btu in the garage with the cars in.
No quick easy way to heat it up that way.
So, I used one of those LP heaters that look like a stove. They put out a lot of heat in a short time but cannot regulate them. either on or off and don't touch them.
Once it is off the 30,000 maintains a comfort area.
By the way I purchased two of the fans that I saw in a video and mounted on top of the heater. Variable speed and work good. Not great, but good.
A better way is to simply use a summer type fan to move the heat around and get it off of the ceiling.

Thanks again
 
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whejdak

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1764865137925.pngThis the one that I use to heat fast. But, no protection from burns.
 
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Shiftless

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That type also puts a lot of moisture in the air. Watch out for rust on your metal items.
The existing 30K BTU Mr. Heater that the O.P. is currently running is ventless so it also is a big source of moisture in the garage.

Running a 30K BTU ventless propane heater puts a gallon of water into the air every 3 hours of operation.
 
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whejdak

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Yup, I've seen the moisture problem big time in the past. Especially, when it is real cold outside. Tools almost drip with moisture on them.
I built a small room in my pole barn to work in. Heating that space up really showed the moisture.
 

CV428

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In addition to the other comments (which are correct), I'll state this: Heating and cooling uses air as the convection medium, but the heating and cooling of everything else is the actual goal.

If you have ever lost your primary heat in the winter, you know how grueling it is to warm a house back up from, say ~45f to 70f versus how quickly you can change from 68f to 70f. You're not just heating the air, that thermal energy you put in the air is pulled away by the cold objects (walls, appliances, ceiling, floor, furniture, etc). The air coming from the registers is cold, too, because all of the ductwork is cold too. Everything along that air charge's path is fighting. Think of thermal mass as the size of the pool and the thermal energy as the water.

So, the more thermal mass in the room (or garage), the more the system has to work to heat or cool everything.

I live in SC now, so the garage doesn't really get too cold in the winter. Summers are brutal, even with a big dual inverter air conditioner in the garage. If I know I'm going to work in the garage, I start the AC at 5am where the delta is more favorable and cool it slower and maintain it rather than try to do it when the outdoor temp is 95+. When I lived in New England, there were a few winters where I had to do repairs in -15f weather. The concrete was so cold, my joints were aching even with thermals and a Mr Heater pointed at me as I was under my car. I took the car for a drive first, parked it, let it sit with the heater going, and it was far better for longer. The car was no longer sucking the heat away (the sheet metal was, but the warm engine, transmission, and cabin had a far greater thermal mass so it was a net gain)
 

GreenIron

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In my garage shop, I use a 48K BTU patio heater.
When needed, I first crank it to about the medium heat, then later set it to LOW and leave it there until it's no longer needed. My shop is ~720sf and insulated with 14' walls.
PH.png

We experience very few days at or below freezing down here. If so, and have work to do in the shop, I'll light it up.
 

58Yeoman

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That type also puts a lot of moisture in the air. Watch out for rust on your metal items.
I missed that. My shop is almost a 1000 square feet and I heat it with a 75,000 btu Mr. Heater, but it hangs from the ceiling and is vented.
 

zendriver

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Just need to keep from freezing to death while I'm out there working for a while.
I don't like completely heating my 3 car garage if I'm just working in it for a while, There is a project truck, plus metal equipment, tool chests etc. to absorb heat.

I have this heater and a 35' extension cord. I'll just set it near where I'm working and it warms the area in no time to sweatshirt level.


If I really want to heat the garage quick also have a 120k BTU salamander.
 

JohnX14

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The whole "how to heat the garage" answer depends (obviously) on what you are doing in there. I sometimes detail my trucks in the dead of winter. I have an insulated, plastered, garage with modine gas unit heater. (previous house had unheated, uninsulated 28x28 barn) Not doing that with the mushroom or torpedo heater. Basic repairs are fine with temp heat. Sometimes you just need to keep the individual warm, not the materials. Really no right answer without knowing the objective(s)
 

Shiftless

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My shop is almost a 1000 square feet and I heat it with a 75,000 btu Mr. Heater, but it hangs from the ceiling and is vented.
Vented
That‘s the key. Unvented propane or natural gas heaters discharge water vapor and CO2 into the air In your building. You can’t get around that. It’s Chemistry.
Vented heaters discharge the products of combustion, primarily carbon dioxide and water vapor, out of the structure and into the outside air.
 

410John

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I have a Master 18,000btu propane heater from Tractor Supply. The kind with the 20lb cylinder in a cabinet and a blue flame panel in the front. Works good for the area I’m work in.
 
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whejdak

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The MAXX heater is the way to go if you have the Gas line, Electric line and a Venting system. I had one when I lived in Indiana.
When we moved back, I built a home West of Milwaukee. It was our first time doing so. I made so many mistakes by not having things added during the build process. Like a gas line run into the garage and more electric power then the simple 15 amp circuit out there now.
Always wanted to do up grades. Now that I'm 78, I just dream of the things that I should have done.
 

finn

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The MAXX heater is the way to go if you have the Gas line, Electric line and a Venting system. I had one when I lived in Indiana.
When we moved back, I built a home West of Milwaukee. It was our first time doing so. I made so many mistakes by not having things added during the build process. Like a gas line run into the garage and more electric power then the simple 15 amp circuit out there now.
Always wanted to do up grades. Now that I'm 78, I just dream of the things that I should have done.
Never too late.

You can’t take it with you.
 

Ultradog MN

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Vented
That‘s the key. Unvented propane or natural gas heaters discharge water vapor and CO2 into the air In your building. You can’t get around that. It’s Chemistry.
Vented heaters discharge the products of combustion, primarily carbon dioxide and water vapor, out of the structure and into the outside air.
Agree.
A vented heating system is superior to non vented.
The furnace I installed in my shop is a high efficiency type.
It expells the water vapor - which is a byproduct of combustion - in two ways.
First is via a collector on the end of the combustion chamber. Water trickles out of the collector and is normally drained into a floor drain or into a little pump that pumps it into a sink or laundry tub.
My drain system can freeze because I don't always heat my shop. So I routed that drain into a 5 gallon pail in the closet of my little shop office which is always above freezing.
I have to empty the pail every couple of days. There is also a significant amount of vapor which is expelled from the exhaust pipe on the outside of the garage.
If the furnace is running full time that is a couple/few gallons of water a day.
If you are running a non vented gas heater in your garage you are putting significant amounts of humidity in there.
 

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Wubicon

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Take the cars out on the interstate for 30 mins and get them good and hot and then park in the garage ;)
 
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whejdak

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Now that you've said that...............
I have a pole barn too and that needed some heat too.
I've been using a large torpedo heater to keep some of the area that I work in warm. Or at least a little warm.
Since I can't take it with me, I went ahead and bought a SunFire 120,000 BTU radiant heater. I absolutly love it. Can't pull it back and forth from the pole barn to the garage in the snow so I needed something for the garage. That's how this all started out.
Sunfire is an expensive heating device and I can't say that it is worth the money, but it is the best heater out there (portable heater).
If it wasn't so expensive, I'd bought a smaller one for the garage.
 

Shiftless

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Since I can't take it with me, I went ahead and bought a SunFire 120,000 BTU radiant heater. I absolutly love it.
I’m glad you found something you like and gives you enough heat.
Is it true that there is no smell and no fumes? That’s quite a claim for a non vented heater that burns diesel fuel.

66A3CFA7-1495-472F-BB2F-C5AD578D8411.jpeg
 

Jazz1

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If you only heating occasionally id want a diesel radiant heater…something that really pours the heat out because the cement pad is also stone cold and takes forever to heat up.
I heat with wood so even if i not working in garage i light up a few logs daily during the winter.
Obviously wood heat is not for everyone..

I used a portable 4 element infrared quartz heater from Home Depot to maintain some heat while gone for a couple weeks while i was away on holidays and it kept garage at a constant temp considering how stinking cold it was outside.
 

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