Heating Water pipe over Winter?

[Dalton308]

Hi all,

I have a 32x48 slab with all the plumbing in place, ready to build the shop and do the bathroom. That will probably not happen this year, as Winter is ready to show up.

I know there is a way to heat the existing water pipe, running a 10 gauge cord, but I don't know who makes such a device.

The pipe is sticking out of the concrete about a foot, with a shutoff valve. I can turn it on now, as it's hooked to the well. All the pipe is 8 feet deep.

Any searching just leads to uncovered piping ideas such as wrapping it, but that probably won't work when it will get to -30 in Montana.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Showkey]

Go back to the pipe’s source, disconnect and drain the pipe.

 

[kbs2244]

do a search on

pipe heat tape

 

[Dalton308]

do a search on

pipe heat tape

Thanks! That led to exactly what I was thinking.

"Heat Cable for Pipe Freeze Protection" on Amazon.

 

[redmondjp]

Do you have an upstream valve on this water line to the shop that you can turn off? For this winter, I'd shut the line off and drain it or blow it out with air so you don't have any freezing concerns.

Otherwise, use thermostatically-regulated pipe heat tape on the portion above the slab and wrap it all with insulation. But then you need to keep power to it, and periodically check it to see that the heat tape is still functioning.

 

[Dalton308]

Do you have an upstream valve on this water line to the shop that you can turn off? For this winter, I'd shut the line off and drain it or blow it out with air so you don't have any freezing concerns.

Otherwise, use thermostatically-regulated pipe heat tape on the portion above the slab and wrap it all with insulation. But then you need to keep power to it, and periodically check it to see that the heat tape is still functioning.

No, it just goes down 8 feet, then 70 feet or so straight into the well.

I'll be checking to make sure the heat is working every day, I guarantee that!

 

[redmondjp]

No, it just goes down 8 feet, then 70 feet or so straight into the well.

I'll be checking to make sure the heat is working every day, I guarantee that!

The heat tape is pretty reliable. What I would do however, is rig up a light fixture, preferably with a LED bulb in it, that you can see at night from a distance. That is your power-on indicator. So if the light is off, you need to go check it out.

 

[Dalton308]

The heat tape is pretty reliable. What I would do however, is rig up a light fixture, preferably with a LED bulb in it, that you can see at night from a distance. That is your power-on indicator. So if the light is off, you need to go check it out.

That is a great idea, but I'm not splicing the heat tape cord.

 

[Shiftless]

That is a great idea, but I'm not splicing the heat tape cord.

Not necessary.
Just plug the heat tape into one outlet of a duplex receptacle and a trouble light or whatever into the other outlet. If you lose power in that circuit, the light won’t be on. Easy Peezy.

 

[Dalton308]

Not necessary.
Just plug the heat tape into one outlet of a duplex receptacle and a trouble light or whatever into the other outlet. If you lose power in that circuit, the light won’t be on. Easy Peezy.

I was under the impression redmondjp was talking about a light at the water pipe. The Grip Clip Heat Tape Pro has a lighted plug, so I know it is on plugged in my patio outlet. I don't know it's necessarily working 50 feet away at the pipe without going out there and checking.

 

[mcbane]

Heat tape works but I have found that it fails when winter storms take out the power. Best to blow the lines with air. That is a foolproof fix and won’t run up your electric bill.


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[Dalton308]

Heat tape works but I have found that it fails when winter storms take out the power. Best to blow the lines with air. That is a foolproof fix and won’t run up your electric bill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't. The line is 8 feet deep.

 

[Shiftless]

I can't. The line is 8 feet deep.

Sure, you can just blow out the whole line with a big blast of compressed air. Don’t worry about a bit of water remaining in a pipe 8 feet deep. I live in coastal CA but I’m not gonna bother to look up the freeze depth in Montana. I’m sure it’s not 8 feet.

 

[Dalton308]

Sure, you can just blow out the whole line with a big blast of compressed air. Don’t worry about a bit of water remaining in a pipe 8 feet deep. I live in coastal CA but I’m not gonna bother to look up the freeze depth in Montana. I’m sure it’s not 8 feet.

It's hooked to the well.

 

[Shiftless]

It's hooked to the well.

Gotta get out your pipe wrenches (or propane torch) and put in a valve and a tee.

 

[SGKent]

a 10 day power outage in the dead of winter is going to make a real mess of that. Is the pipe insulated to the freeze depth?

 

[Dalton308]

a 10 day power outage in the dead of winter is going to make a real mess of that. Is the pipe insulated to the freeze depth?

It's wrapped, but not enough. It's inside conduit. People around here that do what I did build the shop and don't have any problems because they heat the shop and play in it all winter.

Morons like me that put the water in and don't build the same year have to figure out the heating part.

 

[meboatermike]

I know it seems like a hassle to you but I agree with Shiftless "Gotta get out your pipe wrenches (or propane torch) and put in a valve and a tee." In the short run this winter you will not have to worry at all about it freezing. And in the long run you may very well need to isolate it from your well for a repair someday in the future so it would be a good idea to be able to shut it off and drain it with a tee and shutoff valve even after you build.

 

[larry4406]

Does your well use the "pitless style" adapter to transition from the well drop pipe thru the well casing to the underground piping?

If so, then using the proper tools (pull pipe with T-cross bar so you can't loose the pump!), lift the pump off the adapter while having someone else ready to drain the water line back to the well with compressed air, reinstall the pit-less and drop some Chlorox into the well. Then DO NOT operate the well again till your shop is done and heated. Rechlorinate the well before use.

As a further precaution, you may want to pour the Chlorox into the piping that penetrates the slab before blowing it back to the well.

Good luck.

 

[CJ7VFR]

I can't. The line is 8 feet deep.

If the line is 8 feet deep, then isn't it below the frost line? If so, then it should not freeze.

If you are worried about the line freezing now, what were you going to do to the line when it actually gets hooked up to prevent it from freezing?

Jim

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

It sounds like you don't have any pressure tank or filters hooked up yet.
I'd shut off the well and **** as much water as possible out of the pipe. On drain lines/traps I put RV antifreeze in them. Maybe alcohol (like everclear) would work to fill the line from the well.
You could still do the heat tape if you like.

 

[Dalton308]

Does your well use the "pitless style" adapter to transition from the well drop pipe thru the well casing to the underground piping?

If so, then using the proper tools (pull pipe with T-cross bar so you can't loose the pump!), lift the pump off the adapter while having someone else ready to drain the water line back to the well with compressed air, reinstall the pit-less and drop some Chlorox into the well. Then DO NOT operate the well again till your shop is done and heated. Rechlorinate the well before use.

As a further precaution, you may want to pour the Chlorox into the piping that penetrates the slab before blowing it back to the well.

Good luck.

You have a completely different setup. The well serves the house also.

 

[Dalton308]

If the line is 8 feet deep, then isn't it below the frost line? If so, then it should not freeze.

If you are worried about the line freezing now, what were you going to do to the line when it actually gets hooked up to prevent it from freezing?

Jim

The 8 ft. deep part isn't the problem, it's the vertical part that rises up through the concrete shop floor.

The line is hooked up.

 

[Dalton308]

It sounds like you don't have any pressure tank or filters hooked up yet.
I'd shut off the well and **** as much water as possible out of the pipe. On drain lines/traps I put RV antifreeze in them. Maybe alcohol (like everclear) would work to fill the line from the well.
You could still do the heat tape if you like.

The well is also serving the house. I can't shut off the pipe to the shop and keep the house on.

 

[gungatim]

How is the pipe hooked to the well? Did you Tee into the line out before the house without putting in a shutoff?

OR...did you splice into the line inside the house (hopefully after your pressure tank)? if so, do it right and put in a shut off. then you can either siphon out a few feet of water in the pipe or dump in some RV antifreeze through a hose displacing the top few feet of water.

 

[Dalton308]

How is the pipe hooked to the well? Did you Tee into the line out before the house without putting in a shutoff?

OR...did you splice into the line inside the house (hopefully after your pressure tank)? if so, do it right and put in a shut off. then you can either siphon out a few feet of water in the pipe or dump in some RV antifreeze through a hose displacing the top few feet of water.

It's a T with no shutoff.

 

[sberry]

Add a valve and another t with a boiler drain. Should have been plumbed this way from the start. 6 circuits leaving my well pit, service valve for each.

 

[gungatim]

It's a T with no shutoff.

sounds like you'll be digging down and installing a curb stop. did you put the Tee in or did you pay a pro?

you'll need one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewer...-Key-Stop-and-Drain-Valve-225-2-1-1/206091396

 

[Mattlt]

Hindsight is 20-20, but... You should have put in a frostproof hydrant. The kind where the actual valve is below the frost line. When you turn off the water, the vertical pipe drains back into the surrounding soil. No risk of the vertical pipe freezing, and assuming the horizontal line is below the frost line, no risk there either.

 

[finn]

Gungatim has the right idea. That valve, buried 8’ down in the line leading to the shop, with a vertical access pipe, cap, and appropriate service wrench will alleviate your problem.

Pia to install now, after the fact, but I wouldn’t want to rely on heat tape. A failure in winter means you lose water to the house. The curb stop should be foolproof.

 

[sberry]

I don't think it needs frost proof only a service valve to the structure and drain at the source.

 

[larry4406]

It's a T with no shutoff.

This is your problem.

Should have put a valve here with a PVC riser to allow turning off the shop supply via long handled wrench.

Water under the bridge now.

 

[Dalton308]

I found this wrap that should work.

https://shop.unitherm.com/Pipe-Freeze-Protection-12Lx12W-120-Volts-p/fpw1212-120.htm

 

[sberry]

If the source is a warm pit and allows it to gravity drain a simple replumb would be worth it so it could be drained, nothing to rely on and would want to be able to shut this off on its own. Kind of good basic circuit design.