Heating went out, need help

[newpain01]

I have an old Goodman GPG13240701A gaspack which just stopped working (was working ok this morning, but over the last couple of days it took much longer to start blowing). Now it’s only buzzing when I switch it on. It’s freezing outside and I need to fix this asap, can’t afford to replace it at the moment.
I replaced the capacitor (went out last year and AC didn’t work, so I had one for backup), but that didn’t fix it.
Any suggestions what to check?

Here is a video of the unit buzzing

 

[jhelrey]

Hot surface igniter. Roll out sensor. Etc. Cap is for AC, not heat. Heat is gas.

 

[newpain01]

Thanks for the reply, I will open it up tomorrow morning and take a look at the hot surface igniter. You are correct, heat is gas, but I didn't know what to check, so I tested the capacitor first. Appreciate your help.

 

[WildBill]

Do you have any other heat source? You going to be OK until its fixed?

 

[loganb]

This appears to be the owners manual, review where the diagnostic LED on the control board is and how to recall the last fault codes and post back what those codes are based on the flash sequence.

 

[fitter30]

Blower run with thermostat switched to fan on? Burner venter motor coming on? Is the sound coming from contactor?

 

[newpain01]

Do you have any other heat source? You going to be OK until its fixed?

Don’t have any good heat sources, just a few small electric space heaters which cannot keep the house warm, but it’s in the 50s inside, so not too cold. Will have to fix this tomorrow though.

This appears to be the owners manual, review where the diagnostic LED on the control board is and how to recall the last fault codes and post back what those codes are based on the flash sequence.

Thank you sir, will open the unit and try to get the flash sequence in the morning.

Blower run with thermostat switched to fan on? Burner venter motor coming on? Is the sound coming from contactor?

Nope, blower doesn’t turn on at all, it’s just buzzing when I switch it on. I couldn’t identify where the sound is coming from.
Edit: I was wrong here, the blower does turn on when thermostat is switched to fan on.

 

[loganb]

A buzzing when a single phase motor is trying to turn on but isn't spinning can be a sign of a bad cap, but you've got multiple cap's on that unit so may have checked the wrong one. If you can safely give a good "push start" to the blade assy while it's buzzing you can often get a motor with a dying cap to get started with that help. With the flash codes it'll be a better start as to what may be occuring. You'll also need to pull the cover panel for the burner unit as the one you've got opened doesn't have the access for the gas equipment, may be the left (2) most panels on that side with the access panel off. Somewhere on a manufacturer ID panel should be a date state indicating when it was made and probably a wiring diagram. These may be important as the wiring diagrams at the end of the manual indicate a couple different versions depending on when it was made.

 

[fitter30]

Looking at the wiring diagrams in the installation manual it looks like the blower motor is ecm/ electronically commutated motor If the unit has this motor it's powered by dc and controlled from a board sending a signal for speed. The electronics are mounted on the rear of the motor. Brand and model of the motor might find what is needed for trouble shooting. Take a pic of the diagram.

 

[newpain01]

Thanks guys, will remove the panels in the morning and take more pictures.
I tested the fan only, it turns on and blows air, so I can confirm the blower motor is good. When I switch it to heating mode, it shuts off the fan and the unit is just buzzing.

 

[newpain01]

Blower run with thermostat switched to fan on? Burner venter motor coming on? Is the sound coming from contactor?

Confirmed the blower does turn on when I switch it to fan only mode, but shuts off when I switch it to heating.

 

[American Locomotive]

I assume it has a inducer fan for the burners. Find where it lives. Make sure it's spinning. As others mentioned, there is likely a blinking LED that will blink out a fault code.

 

[Copymutt]

Not knowing the unit, some have an over temp thermo breaker in the flue. If it fails it would shut it down, but cant acct. for the buzz.

 

[PoorUB]

In general the sequence of operation,

1. Call for heat from the thermostat, there should be 24 volts on the thermostat connection in the unit. Measure between the C and W terminals.

2. When the thermostat calls for heat the inducer motor should start running. If it doesn't run, nothing else happens, just sits there looking stupid.

3. Inducer runs and closes a pressure switch, or sometimes a centrifugal switch on the inducer motor, I don't know which your unit has, but a pressure switch is more common. if the pressure switch fails, again, nothing else happens.

4. Pressure switch closes and then a not surface ignitor will glow. You will see it up by the burner. You might have spark ignition instead, again I don't know, but if you have spark ignition you should here it start arcing in the burner area.

5. Shortly after the ignitor starts the gas valve will open and the burner will light. There will be some method to prove flame, usually just a simple flame rod that extends into the burner flame.

6, If all this works, the blower fan starts. The blower fan might just time out to start, so it might start running after 15-30 seconds any way. If the blower fan does not run the unit will most likely run until the heat exchanger gets too hot and trips a thermal over load.

Speaking of overloads, often there are overloads around he burner, up to 3-4 of them on some units. Two wires going to them with a little red button. Some times they just trip. Make certain they are all reset, give each red button a firm push.

Common issues. Inducer motor seizes up over the summer and will not run. sometimes they can be forced to turn and will run, often they need to be replaced.
Hot surface ignitors fail. They are fragile and crack and/or burn out. Typically they run on 120 volts. If you can figure out the wires to the ignitor you can measure the voltage.

Sometimes the control board fails causing any of this to not function. It takes electrical testing to prove what has failed. Many control boards have been replaced for a bad pressure switch, or inducer motor, or pressure switch, so don't just assume the board is bad. The control board it probably the toughest part in the system!

Occasionally the gas valve just doesn't open. You might hear it might click, but the valve may still not open.

You do have gas? I have gone on no heat calls and the LP tank was empty, or someone shut off the gas valve to the unit.

Good luck!

 

[mike93lx]

I assume it has a inducer fan for the burners. Find where it lives. Make sure it's spinning. As others mentioned, there is likely a blinking LED that will blink out a fault code.

This was the fault I had on a furnace last year. Gave the blower fan a little kick start and it fired right up. Swapping it out resolved the issue. Hopefully it's something simple like that

 

[newpain01]

This was the fault I had on a furnace last year. Gave the blower fan a little kick start and it fired right up. Swapping it out resolved the issue. Hopefully it's something simple like that

Yeah, I hope so. I don't hear the inducer motor turning on, hopefully that's the problem.

In general the sequence of operation,

1. Call for heat from the thermostat, there should be 24 volts on the thermostat connection in the unit. Measure between the C and W terminals.

2. When the thermostat calls for heat the inducer motor should start running. If it doesn't run, nothing else happens, just sits there looking stupid.

3. Inducer runs and closes a pressure switch, or sometimes a centrifugal switch on the inducer motor, I don't know which your unit has, but a pressure switch is more common. if the pressure switch fails, again, nothing else happens.

4. Pressure switch closes and then a not surface ignitor will glow. You will see it up by the burner. You might have spark ignition instead, again I don't know, but if you have spark ignition you should here it start arcing in the burner area.

5. Shortly after the ignitor starts the gas valve will open and the burner will light. There will be some method to prove flame, usually just a simple flame rod that extends into the burner flame.

6, If all this works, the blower fan starts. The blower fan might just ime out to start, so it might start running after 15-30 seconds any way. If the blower fan does not run the unit will most likely run intil the heat exchanger gets too haot and trips a thermal over load.

Speaking of overloads, often there are overloads around he burner, up to 3-4 of them on some units. Two wires going to them with a little red button. Some times they just trip. Make certain they are all reset, give each red button a firm push.

Common issues. Inducer motor seizes up over the summer and will not run. sometimes they can be forced to turn and will run, often they need to be replaced.
Hot surface ignitors fail. They are fragile and crack and/or burn out. Typically they run on 120 volts. If you can figure out the wires to the ignitor you can measure the voltage.

Sometimes the control board fails causing any of this to not function. It takes electrical testing to prove what has failed. Many control boards have been replaced for a bad pressure switch, or inducer motor, or pressure switch, so don't just assume the board is bad. The control board it probably the toughest part in the system!

Occasionally the gas valve just doesn't open. You might hear it might click, but the valve may still not open.

You do have gas? I have gone on no heat calls and the LP tank was empty, or someone shut off the gas valve to the unit.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the detailed answer, helps a lot to understand how the whole thing works.
I checked the gas first, I do have gas.

 

[meathooker]

Yeah, I hope so. I don't hear the inducer motor turning on, hopefully that's the problem.

check for a pressure switch in the combustion air. They’re temperamental

also another vote for igniter

 

[930dreamer]

Does it have a transformer?

 

[PoorUB]

Does it have a transformer?

They all do!

 

[newpain01]

Found the problem. It was the inducer motor. It was spinning fine when off, but when I switched the thermostat to heat, it was just buzzing and it wouldn't spin. I pushed it slightly and it started spinning. It's making noise though, so I am sure it won't last long. I tested a couple of times and it turns on fine now when I switch the thermostat on, so I left it running to warm up the house.

Any ideas where to get a replacement?


Edit: looks like the part number is 119404-00SP. Found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/272780111203 but that's not going to arrive until next week. I was hoping to replace it today or tomorrow. Is it possible to rebuild these? Most likely just the bearings went bad.
Looks like this might be same, even though the part number is different: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAG9GEG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Steve.S]

Found the problem. It was the inducer motor. It was spinning fine when off, but when I switched the thermostat to heat, it was just buzzing and it wouldn't spin. I pushed it slightly and it started spinning. It's making noise though, so I am sure it won't last long. I tested a couple of times and it turns on fine now when I switch the thermostat on, so I left it running to warm up the house.

Any ideas where to get a replacement?


Edit: looks like the part number is 119404-00SP. Found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/272780111203 but that's not going to arrive until next week. I was hoping to replace it today or tomorrow. Is it possible to rebuild these? Most likely just the bearings went bad.
Looks like this might be same, even though the part number is different: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAG9GEG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Not sure of your location, but check for appliance repair stores in your area. I had to replace the combustion blower (basically the same thing on a HE furnace) a couple of years ago and had good luck finding one. You're way ahead since you have the part #.

Good luck!

 

[loganb]

Trace those wire leads, there should be another capacitator, likely much smaller than the large one for the AC compressor fan. It could be as small as a zippo lighter-ish size.

As for sources, I buy most of my stuff from repairclinic.com as I've found their information/documentation/shipping very good

 

[newpain01]

The wires from the induction motor plug in directly in the control board, I traced those. There might be a capacitor on the board.

 

[Bert_]

That draft inducer just uses a shaded pull motor, so there will not be a capacitor for it.

It's a Goodman so parts should be easily available. A local wholesaler might sell you one otherwise it sounds like you have already found an online option

 

[joel63]

That draft inducer just uses a shaded pull motor, so there will not be a capacitor for it.

It's a Goodman so parts should be easily available. A local wholesaler might sell you one otherwise it sounds like you have already found an online option

Trace the motor leads to the board.
There may be a problem at the board.
I would direct test the motor.

 

[iron block]

Looks like this might be same, even though the part number is different: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAG9GEG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

That Amazon part shows 230 volts, which is probably not a match for your original. Might want to double check that if you are thinking of ordering it.

 

[newpain01]

Trace the motor leads to the board.
There may be a problem at the board.
I would direct test the motor.

What makes you think there is a problem with the board?

The inducer motor is making a lot of noise, sounds like scraping something, maybe the bearings are shot.

 

[newpain01]

I will measure the exact voltage on the board where the inducer motor connects and then test it directly with power from an outlet. Thinking to pull it out tomorrow and see if those bearings can be replaced or greased, otherwise I'll just replace it with a new one.

That Amazon part shows 230 volts, which is probably not a match for your original. Might want to double check that if you are thinking of ordering it.

My furnace has a 240V circuit breaker so it might be 240V, will measure at the pins on the board tomorrow to double check.

 

[fitter30]

Confirmed the blower does turn on when I switch it to fan only mode, but shuts off when I switch it to heating.

That's strange fan auto/ on setting on should be powering G to C 24 vac or
R to G 0 vac
Just replace the inducer. There could be four wires to it 2 for power and 2 for a safety switch so the board knows it's running.

 

[loganb]

It looks like the inducer motor is identified as VM on the wiring diagram which aligns with your pictures showing purple and red leads to
it. Based on this it does look like a 230/240v single phase motor input is correct

 

[newpain01]

Just replace the inducer. There could be four wires to it 2 for power and 2 for a safety switch so the board knows it's running.

No, there are only 2 wires coming out from the inducer, purple and red and going directly into the control board.

It looks like the inducer motor is identified as VM on the wiring diagram which aligns with your pictures showing purple and red leads to
it. Based on this it does look like a 230/240v single phase motor input is correct

Yes, that sounds right. I will measure the voltage on those leads tomorrow morning before I pull it out.

 

[PoorUB]

Found the problem. It was the inducer motor. It was spinning fine when off, but when I switched the thermostat to heat, it was just buzzing and it wouldn't spin. I pushed it slightly and it started spinning. It's making noise though, so I am sure it won't last long. I tested a couple of times and it turns on fine now when I switch the thermostat on, so I left it running to warm up the house.

Any ideas where to get a replacement?


Edit: looks like the part number is 119404-00SP. Found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/272780111203 but that's not going to arrive until next week. I was hoping to replace it today or tomorrow. Is it possible to rebuild these? Most likely just the bearings went bad.
Looks like this might be same, even though the part number is different: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAG9GEG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Looks like that number supersedes to this one. (I might be wrong!)

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Goodman-Amana-0131G00000PS-Inducer-Motor-Assembly

 

[newpain01]

Pulled it out today, tested on the control board and when the thermostat switches on, it's getting 230V. Confirmed voltage on the motor sticker as well, it is a 230V motor. The motor spins freely as you can see in this video, but there is a light scraping sound. It stopped working again today, it was just buzzing. I find it hard to believe that it's getting stuck because of the scraping, I think the bearings are fine, maybe the stator is bad?

I want to try and test it, I have 240V in the garage, but it's a 6-50 outlet and I don't have a plug to connect it to, maybe I can just stick each of the leads in the hot pins in the outlet, unless someone has a better idea?

 

[American Locomotive]

More than likely the bearings are bad, and when the motor turns on, the rotor gets pulled to the side and jams against the stator. Sometimes rust can build up and cause the same thing to happen.

You can try taking it apart and oiling the bearings.

 

[newpain01]

Not sure if oiling would help, I would ideally want to replace those bearings if I can take it apart, need to figure out a way how to pull the inner fan.

 

[PoorUB]

Not sure if oiling would help, I would ideally want to replace those bearings if I can take it apart, need to figure out a way how to pull the inner fan.

Just order a new assembly, they are not made to take a part. Over the years I have tried to repair a few in desperation to get someone's heat going, I failed every time!

 

[newpain01]

Good to know, thanks! I was hoping to repair it so it can last a week until the new one arrives, I don't have much heating in house now and the replacement arrives next Friday.

 

[Cane]

They are just bushings. I limped mine along for quite a while on the Goodman in the shop. I just sprayed the bushings with dry silicone spray while it was running every so often.

 

[newpain01]

I just tried to disassemble it, the set screw is rusted and won't come out. I noticed the inner bearing is bad and there is a play in the fan which is causing it to scrape (that's why it was noisy) and most likely like @American Locomotive mentioned, the rotor gets pulled to the side and jams against the stator. Replacement arrives next friday

 

[Notgrownup]

You weren’t able to find one locally? I would’ve thought someone would stock this within some distance of Triangle area