Hein Warner Floor Jack

[Uncle Buck]

Im really not very familiar with Gray brand hydraulic jacks, Ive worked on some Gray bumper jacks in the past but never a hydraulic floor or bottle jack. It appears from there website that they are in fact a US company actually located in MO, go figure. It looks like they specalize mainily in lifts though.

They do have a floor jack line, but they are all long frame jacks of higher tonnage. I think they are really best known for the air assist end lifts. I have seen many of those around KCMO when I grew up there years ago.

 

[Elroy]

If you found this series of posts of interest, please reference post

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36252

for additional information on the rebuild of a Hein-Werner O'Boy model OS

 

[650rider]

Hi all, I have just joined the forum after looking for info on Hein-Warrner WS jacks.What a gold mine I found here! Elroy; your postings on your WS rebuild is everything I was looking for. Many thanks for the time and effort put in. And I must say very timely too !!
I am resealing and freshning-up an old (aren't they all?) WS that will be used as the lifter for my motorcycle lift and general usage.
I have a habit (or hobby?) of restoring and reusing old tooling and machinery, some of which is a Beaver 6" jointer for woodworking and a Simplicity rototiller, both from the early 50's. Also vintage bikes.
[/ATTACH]


A couple of pics of start of repairs. Cheers 650rider

 

[Elroy]

Elroy; your postings on your WS rebuild is everything I was looking for. Many thanks for the time and effort put in. And I must say very timely too !!

You're very welcome, Glad you found us.

Would you do Elroy a "flavor" and please snap a picture of the aluminum ID tag riveted to the front of the main lifting arm casting.

 

[bw77]

Truth be told the only American made jack anymore is (Weaver), heinwerner sold out to Shin Fu, Lincoln sold out to Hein Werner, Hein Werner decided to abandon there Pre-90's design and soley use Lincolns design which was previously Walker back in the olden days. Still with me? Im confused... Anyways great site and if i can be of any assistance let me know. Mexico, MO

What about Milwaukee? American owned, made in the USA.

 

[650rider]

Yeah Elroy, I wish the i.D. plate was there but it was lost some years ago.The serial# is 8A7531. This is from my brother's records.
He had resealed the ram quite a few years ago but later it developed a persistent small leak at the ram and is always oil damp around the pump cylinder area. It will get fixed!
By the way,did I mention what a great forum this is?
cheers 650rider

 

[Hiball]

What about Milwaukee? American owned, made in the USA.

Yes Milwaukee is a american made jack that i overlooked and im not to familiar with there jacks, I do have breakdowns and they look like a solid jack.

 

[srt]

Just registered here after searching for rebuild kit for my ws, which appears to be older than others pictured. What a great thread. I've taken some jacks apart in the past and repaired small problems, but have not tackled a complete rebuild. After returning my second crapstman jack in 2 months I figure I might as well fix up my 'ol reliable, whom leaks around the pump.
Does anyone happen to have saved the parts diagrams from the website that sells parts (Ohio.....). Their site appears to have broken links and requires maintenance. I'd sure like to get a copy emailed to me.
If so, please pm me, and I'll send my e address to you.
When I figure how to post pics I'll take some pics and post them up (including the rivited plate that has s/n 01268xxx). She used to be painted, I'll call it street hemi orange, an now wears an old coat of hand brushed yellow. She's the garage-mate of my Taiwanese (Winner) Hein Warner.

 

[Hiball]

I cant figure out how to post a pdf and is it exceeds the attachment size, Give me your email and ill fire a copy to you.

 

[Elroy]

Well it's looking like we have at least two new members as a direct result of the Hein-Werner rebuild posts. Hope they stick around long after getting their jack repaired.

EXCELLENT. That was the main reason Elroy posted, to help out others in the same situation.

Looking back on it, the O'Boy / OS build was complete, front to back. The WS was just basically the cylinder and a fresh coat of paint on the frame.

It's a shame about the Ohio link being broken. Their exploded views were direct reprints from the factory literature and were 100% correct with OEM part numbers to boot. Hope they get their web page fixed soon and include these WS and OS exploded views.

 

[Elroy]

A few pictures of the pair:

The floor jack on the Left is a circa 1979 Hein Werner Model WS rated at 1-1/2 ton

The jack on the right is a circa 1948 Hein Werner O'Boy Model OS rated at 1-1/4 ton.

They had a good design and didn't change it much in close to 40 years.

Hiball: Would you know if Elroy is correct when he states the Hein-Werner O'Boy was introduced in 1939???

 

[srt]

Elroy, I plan to check these boards and will post up some pics of some of the old stuff I've collected over the years.
I can't pass by odd or usable tools at yard sales, frequently adding them to my collection.
Also, thank you for taking the time to take pictures post them along with the process you used to complete the rebuild.

 

[Hiball]

Elroy, I plan to check these boards and will post up some pics of some of the old stuff I've collected over the years.
I can't pass by odd or usable tools at yard sales, frequently adding them to my collection.
Also, thank you for taking the time to take pictures post them along with the process you used to complete the rebuild.

Check your email, Srt Hope them help if your still having problems you can post a pic and maybe me or someone here can help you identify.

 

[tcianci]

Great thread! I remember my father getting a completely dead long frame jack years ago. He disassembled it and I remember him honing out the corrosion in the main bore and machining a new pump ram and release valve. He soaked the original leathers and refreshed anything he could. He assembled that thing about 40 years ago and although it leaks around the ram these days, it still operates. I did some research and found out that it was an AUSCO jack, primarily by the original color under the paint that my dad had put on there. I have since purchased a rebuild kit for it but that was years ago and 3kids later, I may finally fond the time to install it.

 

[Hiball]

Great thread! I remember my father getting a completely dead long frame jack years ago. He disassembled it and I remember him honing out the corrosion in the main bore and machining a new pump ram and release valve. He soaked the original leathers and refreshed anything he could. He assembled that thing about 40 years ago and although it leaks around the ram these days, it still operates. I did some research and found out that it was an AUSCO jack, primarily by the original color under the paint that my dad had put on there. I have since purchased a rebuild kit for it but that was years ago and 3kids later, I may finally fond the time to install it.

Ausco used alot of Hein werner units in there long jacks late in there history so you might find some similarities but depending on model it may be completely different also, Off the top of my head i cant remember ever seeing one of there own designed power units. I woluld love to see some pictures for future reference, as im sure some of these junkies would love it also.

 

[650rider]

I finally got back to the jack project. These pics show the corrosion inside.A couple of questions arise. Should I have the ram hard chromed to restore the surface ($?). Elroy, on your rebuild, you were going to leave the ram cylinder in place but in post45 you mentioned you did remove it to visit "Mr Hone". What removal method was used? Maybe a couple of large strap wrenches? My cyl. will also receive a fine hone. Thanks for any assistance. 650rider

 

[Elroy]

I finally got back to the jack project..... Elroy, on your rebuild, you were going to leave the ram cylinder in place but in post45 you mentioned you did remove it to visit "Mr Hone". What removal method was used? Maybe a couple of large strap wrenches?

Elroy took a pipe wrench to both the WS and the OS / O'boy. We didn't really go into all that much detail on how Elroy did things in the WS build. The pictures below are from the smaller OS.

Now this shots is "after the fact" but depicts the trouble encountered removing the cylinder tube. This damn thing was in there TIGHT and Elroy was concerned with putting a flat in the tube. To support the tube we found this Craftsman socket that fit the tube nice and tight.

You can see where Elroy polished out the teeth marks

It's too bad your ram is so badly pitted because that's just going to leak. The saving grace is that the ram is very simple. Get a new one made at a local machine shop. That might cost ya a couple of hundred. Oh well

Now if you really want to go first class get some IHCP rod and have them turn it from that. IHCP is Induction Hardened Chrome Platted. It's a common cylinder rod material. Your only problem is going to find someone who has that size material in stock. Other wise you'll get stuck with buying 20 foot. Now you're really talking big bucks. It would be the top drawer solution

Other than that, some plain ole 1018 would do fine. You need to determine how bad the pits are, how much leaking you're willing to put up with and how much money you want spend.

Hell the economy ***** right now so spread the wealth!! You'll have a better chance now of finding a shop willing to work with ya just so they can put some jobs in the shop.

It's a simple part! Good luck to ya. Please feel free to ask all the questions you like.

 

[Hiball]

It's too bad your ram is so badly pitted because that's just going to leak. The saving grace is that the ram is very simple. Get a new one made at a local machine shop. That might cost ya a couple of hundred. Oh well

!

I wouldnt get carried away and just assume it will leak, First off its at the end of the stroke, Secondly if you install a new Ram cup properly there should be very little oil get by to leak. If it was mine and i didnt want to shell out a couple hundred to get a new shaft made, I would gently file away any burrs so it would eat up your end packing and let it be. My opinion only. After reading your post im confused on what you were actually talking about, Elroy is making reference to the ram. If you are talking about the inner cylinder wall being pitted well thats a entirely differnt problem and will require a replacement or some serious honing which more than likely will require a bigger cup. And if you talking about the outside of the cylinder there will be no issues there, Just clean it up and keep sufficient oil inside the resevoir to deter rusting/pitting.

 

[Elroy]

I wouldnt get carried away and just assume it will leak............If it was mine and i didnt want to shell out a couple hundred to get a new shaft made, I would gently file away any burrs so it would eat up your end packing and let it be. My opinion only.

Probably good advise. That rod sees only low pressure.

The cylinder wall is a different story. It looks good but it's hard to tell from the picture.

 

[Hiball]

Hiball: Would you know if Elroy is correct when he states the Hein-Werner O'Boy was introduced in 1939???

Elroy i did a little research while consulting with a few of my guru's and Hein Werner and Walker both introduced Hydraulic jacks to the public in 1940. Oboy was Hein Werners first model according to my guy, so it could have very easily been manufactured Late in 1939 but for sure in 40. Hope this helps.

 

[Elroy]

Oboy was Hein Werners first model according to my guy, so it could have very easily been manufactured Late in 1939 but for sure in 40. Hope this helps.

Excellent. Thanks

Recalled seeing an old trade magazine that was advertising their introduction. Couldn't recall the date but '39 rang a bell in Elroy's empty head.

 

[650rider]

Well, I finally have my WS jack finished, back in service and lookin' good. I did find and use the genuine Hein-Werner overhaul kit. It was located at Hydraulic Service Centre in Hamilton Ontario,just 20 minutes away. They only had 1 kit in stock,had it for a long while he said.
You may recall the pictures of the ram rod which was fairly corroded in a couple of places as well as the inside of the reservoir tube. After a good cleaning and degreasing I gave it a fine sanding and then finer polishing in the lathe. That cleaned up the slight scoring along the length.The pitted pock marks got a rust removal acid soaking then a rinse and a final clean with brake cleaner spray. I figured the surface was as clean as I could get it. The next step was to fill the pit marks that remained. I'm sure y'all are familiar with JB Weld. Well I used a similar product from Permatex called Cold Weld. I've used both brands over the years in different situations and consider both excellent. When the rod and the epoxy are nicely warm (little more than room temp) the 2 part epoxy is mixed and applied along the shaft with a plastic spatula that curves/bends around the shaft. Just one pass is needed then set aside for a day. Back to the lathe I took a few very fine cuts just to the shaft surface (both JB Weld and Cold Weld machine well when fully cured) and finished with 600 then 1200 paper to polish.The job turned out very good.
The rest of the overhaul mostly followed Elroy's very good description which was most helpful.I'll try to post some pics of the finished project.

 

[Elroy]

Most Excellent.

 

[D.J.]

bmwpower needs to do some research and check the history books on hydraulics. Just purchased my kit Monday at Hydraulic Jack Service, Evansville IN 812 4234891 and the man at the counter was very knowledgeable and he said his choice was the leather seals over the others. D.J.
________
Ordinary life insurance forum

 

[Hiball]

bmwpower needs to do some research and check the history books on hydraulics. Just purchased my kit Monday at Hydraulic Jack Service, Evansville IN 812 4234891 and the man at the counter was very knowledgeable and he said his choice was the leather seals over the others. D.J.

So let me get this straight... Your limited research and knowledge is based on "1" persons choice and he works behind the counter? I can sit here and give you just as many reasons to use Buna Nitrile cups vs Leather. Most jacks in the previous 30 years have switched over to Poly's because of Ease of installation, Higher Durometer available which gives them longevity and better sealing surfaces along with Loaded cup versions that will withstand alot of PSI and Multiple Lip sealing options to fit all of your needs. Most Definitely Leather cups have there uses and are proven winners but making a statement like that is like going to Sears and asking there Craftsman tool salesman if his tools are better than snap on.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Sic-um Hiball.....

Once I get about 54 other projects out of the way, I will be getting a rebuild kit for dad's old jack from you.

 

[hatch_1989]

Re: Filling Hein Warner Floor Jack model WS

Elroy, my congratulations on your excellent pictorial on rebuilding the Hein Werner WS on OS jacks.

I ran across it as I was searching for information on the proper method of filling my model WS.

I had it rebuilt a few years ago, kept it as a backup jack and did not use it much. When I tried to pump it up today it raised less than a foot. I seem to recall it may have leaked oil after the rebuild but i have slept since then. As guy that did the rebuild was having medical issues I never returned it to have the problem corrected.

Will the packing seat tighter if I give the packing nut a few taps with a hammer and a punch?

Elroy learned the hard way you can't have it under filled or over filled. Ya see this thing is completely sealed and uses the air volume about the reservoir. Too much fluid and it won't collapse fully and too little fluid prevents the cylinder from fully extending. Word to the wise: Fill as indicted. No more no less.

What is the proper way to of making sure a model WS jack is filled with the right amount of oil?

Thanks in advance, hatch

 

[Hiball]

Re: Filling Hein Warner Floor Jack model WS

Will the packing seat tighter if I give the packing nut a few taps with a hammer and a punch?

Yes the compression nut being tightened compress the packing against the ram, But you first need to find out where its leaking, Is it leaking around the tank nut where it meets the resevoir? or actually between the cylinder and the packing? That compression nut is only there to keep "Minor" oil from seeping out, If there is too much oil bypassing on the ram no matter how tight it is, It will still leak regardless. A punch will work but remember you are beating on soft material and the proper tool is a face spanner.

What is the proper way to of making sure a model WS jack is filled with the right amount of oil?

Thanks in advance, hatch

8oz from completely empty to full, In your case add till you can get complete extension without pumping air.

 

[hatch_1989]

Should the jack be on its wheels or should the cylinder be vertical when adding the oil?

After its been filled, how do I go about bleeding air from the cylinder?

I guess I will check ebay for spanner wrenchs. Do you know of another source? I am unfamiliar with the sizing of spanner wrenches. What size will I need for a Hein Werner model WS? Right now its looking like something I can shop build using a drill press and a welder.

From your response I am gathering that there is no way to gauge the fill level other than by operation. I was wondering whether a "dipstick level" while vertical or weeping past the threads of the fill hole while horizontal method works or should I just take the fill screw out, turn it on its backside and refill with 8 oz after it stops running out?

The guy rebuilt the jack several years ago and what I think I remember is after a few uses it had a puddle under it. I need to clean it off and fill it properly before I can figure where the oil leak is.

I checked out your site, perhaps you will have the parts I will need to stop the leak if tightening with my new spanner wrench doesn't stop the leak.

One suggestion for your site, provide the links to threads like this one for those of us that believe we can fix anything.

 

[Elroy]

There are several area where a leak can occur as Hiball pointed out. Starting at the back of the jack and working forward, here are the potential areas of leaks:

The "fill port" which is a 1/4-28 round head slotted screw that runs parallel with the ram and floor. We'll come back to this later.

The "release valve". This valve is simply a conical point that seats internally. The stem of valve is capped with a large 1-3/8" nut. If you see fluid at the top of the block underneath the "star wheel" tighten it up. Make sure the release valve is open first so you don't jamb the needle

To the left of the release valve is the "check ball well". This well is capped by a special pipe plug with I believe are parallel threads. Directly under this plug is a special rubber cup seal. Any leakage here would require a new seal or you could try a little thread sealer. Bump the pipe plug up tight.

To the left is the "main plunger". Leakage here is not good and will require disassembly to repair

The next area of potential leakage Hiball touched on above. That would be leakage from the "reservoir tube". That can occur at two places. The back of the tube where it pilots into the main block or at the front where it mates with the tank nut. If you're wet around the reservoir tube you might have a tough time getting it tight inside the frame. You could take a punch to it but you're taking a chance on at least breaking off one of the cast iron ears on the tank nut. You would be better off removing the cylinder assembly from the frame and putting a large pipe wrench to it.

The last place a leak could occur would be at the very front at the "rod seal". There is a brass nut that compress a packing underneath to seal the ram from the low pressure reservoir. Leaks here are common especially if the rod is pitted. A punch LIGHTLY applied could solve your problem but don't get carried away it is easily damaged as Hiball pointed out.

Back to the oil filling. Short and sweet: It ***** to get these cylinders filled because of the long small diameter port that leads from the fill plug to the reservoir. Elroy would recommend that you stand the jack up and place the lift pad nose down. This will place the fill plug at the top. Use only hydraulic oil and fill it as much as you can easily get in. You'll find that the burping air from the reservoir makes this operation a pain in the *** and makes a nice mess as well.

After filling the reservoir as much as you can, set the jack back down and block the rear caster up on 2 x 4. Walk away for 24 hours and let all the excess oil run out. The 2 x 4 just places the fill port slightly high. Install the plug and you should be full. You'll know if you have too much oil if the ram won't park full down and too little oil will prevent the ram from reaching full extension.

If all this sounds like a bunch of **** (which it is) just put in 8 oz from full empty like Hiball said.

Good luck getting your jack working. These Hein Werner jacks are built like tanks and when they are right they work very well.

Elroy also omitted the safety valve. You could leak here as well but if it does you got other issues. please advise if you have a problem here.

 

[hatch_1989]

Thanks you Elroy and Hiball for your timely responses.

It sounds like I will need to get a new bag of kitty litter before I fill the thing or maybe I will wait until the wife is out and hijack a cake pan.

I realize i can tighten the spanner nut with a punch but then I wouldn't have any need to add a spanner wrench to my tool collection and wheres the fun in that?

 

[Elroy]

Thanks you Elroy and Hiball for your timely responses.

You're welcome. Please don't hesitate asking any other questions.

Elroy speaks for the board in general when we say welcome. Your participation here would be much appreciated.

 

[Hiball]

Neat little trick to find the oil leak is while the unit is outside of the frame and your done filling, completely degrease the jack with a clean rag removing all residue. Then place the jack on the some clean paper towels and let it sit for a few hours, checking often till you find your location. It is very hard sometimes to pinpoint a leak because oil will run down the unit till it gets to a stopping point then fall, So inspection must be done to see if this is actually occuring by feeling or visually seeing oil trails.

 

[tandnhome]

What is liquid tefflon and where can you find it?. That Elory used on his jack rebuild.

 

[Hiball]

What is liquid tefflon and where can you find it?. That Elory used on his jack rebuild.

I do Not recomend using Teflon, Especially on those Hein Werners for the simple reason there is "Zero" High pressure locations that require it. It can only cause problems down the road in the valve system.

 

[Elroy]

I do Not recomend using Teflon, Especially on those Hein Werners for the simple reason there is "Zero" High pressure locations that require it. It can only cause problems down the road in the valve system.

Elroy begs to differ:

Elroy used Loctite #567 to seal the cylinder to the main body on both the WS AND the O'Boy/OS jack builds. This joint is at the high pressure end of the cylinder. Hein-Werner augmented the metal to metal seal developed by seating the cylinder into the main body with an o-ring on the WS jack where the O'Boy relied solely on the metal to metal seal and the threads.

Where the cylinder screws into the main body is definitely a joint subjected to high pressure. An internal leak here would return oil to "tank" and that would allow the saddle to drop.

Now this portion of your statement is true:

I do Not recomend using Teflon..... It can only cause problems down the road in the valve system.

That is a true statement and would be most applicable to a teflon "tape" applied in sloppy manner. Shards of tape will definitely contaminate the oil system. That's the beauty of the liquid variety Elroy used. The liquid sets ups and stays put. But you're still correct in that teflon tape can migrate into both the check and release valves there by causing problems.

 

[Hiball]

Elroy begs to differ:
Where the cylinder screws into the main body is definitely a joint subjected to high pressure. An internal leak here would return oil to "tank" and that would allow the saddle to drop.

Not to argue but I've never seen one that leaked back into the resevoir, IF someone decided to take the cylinder out for replacement, which should be the only reason that removal should be attempted, and they screwed it back in by hand i can see this happening. With the amount of threads and matched seating surface i dont ever forsee a future problem if torqued properly. I can see it as preventive maintenance but can also see someone agressively putting too much on and some entering the valve system. Im not arguing I just feel the risk outperforms the reward. Think of it this way, The resevoir seating surface has no sealing agent from the factory and although its not pressurized it has to provide a constant seal all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elroy
Elroy used Loctite #567 to seal the cylinder to the main body on both the WS AND the O'Boy/OS jack builds. This joint is at the high pressure end of the cylinder. Hein-Werner augmented the metal to metal seal developed by seating the cylinder into the main body with an o-ring on the WS jack where the O'Boy relied solely on the metal to metal seal and the threads.

Hein Werner and Lincoln both recomend using Anti-sieze on the Main Cylinder along with at the tank nut and resevoir base. I suspect this is do the the torque specs required, 400 ft lbs and 900 ft lbs respectively. At that torque rating there would be "Zero" Chance of seapage and a Good chance of damaging the Cylinder upon removal, Again im not condoning what you did because you did a great job on both your write ups but i dont want to see people doing more harm that good just because they think to have a proper rebuild they have to remove that cylinder and slap some loctite and teflon on it. That is my only concern.

 

[Elroy]

Hein Werner and Lincoln both recomend using Anti-sieze on the Main Cylinder along with at the tank nut and resevoir base. I suspect this is do the the torque specs required, 400 ft lbs and 900 ft lbs respectively. At that torque rating there would be "Zero" Chance of seapage and a Good chance of damaging the Cylinder upon removal

Dam it. No wonder Elroy had such a hard time getting that SOB apart.

900 Ft-lbs

 

[Hiball]

Dam it. No wonder Elroy had such a hard time getting that SOB apart.

900 Ft-lbs

Actually i mis-quoted from the master book, On the Os/Oboy jacks its only 500 Ft-lbs on the cylinder and 200-250 Ft-lbs on the tank nut. The 900lb Ft-lbs is the torque specs for the 4 ton models cylinder for both HW and Lincoln. Regardless they are a Bish to get off, Btw i dont use a torque wrench on the Tank nuts. Ive been doing it so long i have a general idea how long of cheater to use get the proper torque. LOL

 

[ZRX61]

Going to start on my Marquette rebuild tomorrow.... I'll carry on in my "I found a jack" thread