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Helicoil Repair

KnurledNut

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I should have never tried doing this. I apparently didn't drill the hole deep enough. A disaster in so many levels as I see it.
That can be aggravating, but certainly not the end of the world, so don't feel defeated.
This is another advantage of the helicoil type that dont stake in place, they are easier to remove.
If you didn't remove the tang, they will usually unscrew without too much issue.
If you want suggestions, we need details.
 
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vdotmatrix

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Well, everything went swimmingly until reintroduced the bolt into the hole and it wasn't deep enough , after installation of the Helicoil. I might be able to remove the helicoil but then what?
 

rlitman

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Well, everything went swimmingly until reintroduced the bolt into the hole and it wasn't deep enough , after installation of the Helicoil. I might be able to remove the helicoil but then what?
You drive the helicoil in by turning the breakaway tab at the tip, because turning it into the hole leads the spring shape to get smaller. If you turn that in reverse, it expands the spring, so it can jam. But don't fear. Just grab the outside end of the spring with pliers and use that to unscrew it, and you'll get the same shrinking effect. If you're careful, you may be able to re-use the coil, but there's a reason the packs come with a few.

Once it's out, just drill deeper and tap deeper.
 
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vdotmatrix

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You drive the helicoil in by turning the breakaway tab at the tip, because turning it into the hole leads the spring shape to get smaller. If you turn that in reverse, it expands the spring, so it can jam. But don't fear. Just grab the outside end of the spring with pliers and use that to unscrew it, and you'll get the same shrinking effect. If you're careful, you may be able to re-use the coil, but there's a reason the packs come with a few.

Once it's out, just drill deeper and tap deeper.
That’s it, it wint ruin what j have already drilled?
 
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vdotmatrix

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Not if you don't go all crazy with a power drill. Drill straight down and you won't touch the sides that were already tapped, and the drill will only be cutting by the tip.
It why i had the bright idea of using the brace but the bit wouldn't fit it…to drill slow and deliberate.
 

RoninB4

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I should have never tried doing this. I apparently didn't drill the hole deep enough. A disaster in so many levels as I see it.
-Did you use a machine to drill this or do it freehand? Besides not being deep enough, what else is wrong with your results? Can you just pull the coil out and try again? If so, what can improve the results? I'm not trying to critique what you did, I'm hoping some advice can turn this project around to make it work for you.
 

RoninB4

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Drill straight down and you won't touch the sides that were already tapped, and the drill will only be cutting by the tip.
-Not to be an **** about it but I only agree with part of your statement. It would be best IF a rigid setup in a machine is used, re-drilling freehand is likely going to cut some material out on the sides. The flutes of a twist drill aren't round even though they appear to be. There is relief from the edge of the gullet back in a radial direction. That means you can cut with the sides of the twist drill, poorly, but they will cut. Drilling "straight down" would greatly minimize side cutting but duplicating that angle freehand stands a good chance of further material removal if that angle cannot be duplicated. The OP needs to provide more details regarding what equipment is available. The OP stated that he didn't drill deep enough, which suggests that either he didn't measure the depth needed or didn't know how to control the depth needed while drilling. This can still possibly be saved and corrected but the OP @vdotmatrix needs to check in with details and photos to go further. JMO
 
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whateg01

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Or did op just not tap the hole deep enough? Agree, op did not provide enough detail about what's wrong. About like taking the car to the mechanic and saying "the car has a problem".
 
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vdotmatrix

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-Did you use a machine to drill this or do it freehand? Besides not being deep enough, what else is wrong with your results? Can you just pull the coil out and try again? If so, what can improve the results? I'm not trying to critique what you did, I'm hoping some advice can turn this project around to make it work for you.
I think i need the helicoil removal tool. I have a sharpe pick but it isnt giving me anything to grab. I used a drill. IMG_0926.jpeg
 
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vdotmatrix

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-Not to be an **** about it but I only agree with part of your statement. It would be best IF a rigid setup in a machine is used, re-drilling freehand is likely going to cut some material out on the sides. The flutes of a twist drill aren't round even though they appear to be. There is relief from the edge of the gullet back in a radial direction. That means you can cut with the sides of the twist drill, poorly, but they will cut. Drilling "straight down" would greatly minimize side cutting but duplicating that angle freehand stands a good chance of further material removal if that angle cannot be duplicated. The OP needs to provide more details regarding what equipment is available. The OP stated that he didn't drill deep enough, which suggests that either he didn't measure the depth needed or didn't know how to control the depth needed while drilling. This can still possibly be saved and corrected but the OP @vdotmatrix needs to check in with details and photos to go further. JMO
I could have pulled the head off, and used my drill press, but i didnt. I measured the coil, measured the flat spot, and marked the drill Bit As in previous posts.
 

david3921

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Well, everything went swimmingly until reintroduced the bolt into the hole and it wasn't deep enough , after installation of the Helicoil. I might be able to remove the helicoil but then what?
How much deeper do you need to go? Can you cut the sharp point off of the bolt to make the bolt shorter?

Edit-thought a bit more about this. Is the spring thing of the helicoil in the way? Get a roto tool and cut it out.
 
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vdotmatrix

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How much deeper do you need to go? Can you cut the sharp point off of the bolt to make the bolt shorter?

Edit-thought more about this. How can the hole not be deep enough? You didn't add any metal to the depth, you only drilled a larger diameter hole for the helicoil. Does the helicoil have a bottom? If not, then the bolt should go through to the original depth. If it can't, is there swarf stuck in the bottom of the hole?

Edit (again) is that center spring thing in the way? Get out a roto tool and cut it out.
Good thinking this through. If the bit was slightly misaligned the bolt would go only so far maybe?
 

david3921

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Good thinking this through. If the bit was slightly misaligned the bolt would go only so far maybe?
I edited my above response to shorten it up a bit. I think the tip of the bolt is hitting the tab that the installation tool attaches to. Remove that and the bolt will go deeper into the hole.
 

RoninB4

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I think i need the helicoil removal tool.
-Maybe/maybe not. What you're thinking is the "removal tool" is probably the installation tool. How did you install the coil itself? Did you use ordinary hand tools or something made to do the job? Did you break off the tang or is it still attached to the bottom of the coil?
I have a sharpe pick but it isnt giving me anything to grab.
Where on the coil are you attempting to pry? Top or bottom and why? From your photo the topmost end of the coil appears to be here;

Heli.jpg

-The tip of the arrow I've added is not a generalized location, it is pointed at the very end (as near as I can tell) that would need to be pried out from the threads you tapped for the coil. This should allow enough to grab with a pair of needle nosed pliers to unwind the coil out of the hole without damaging the newly tapped threads. Do NOT attempt this until you read the rest of my post (and others if you wish to) and make a decision on what to attempt next. You may/may not need to extract the coil currently installed.
I used a drill.
-Yeah I understand why you did this freehand instead of removing the head for the drill press. Before any further attempts to correct this you can either:

1) Plod ahead with your own judgement and methods (not advisable from what I've seen)
2) Pull the head and take it to a qualified machine shop, shouldn't be more expensive than an hour of shop rate plus the gasket cost
3) Follow some advice from the collective here and attempt to work through this.

-If you decide to go with option #3 there's some info that's needed for all of us (including the OP) to digest before deciding on a course of action. The OP is using a type of shoulder bolt and that means the shoulder has to contact the surface of the head.

1) How long is the threaded portion of that shoulder bolt?
2) How long was the coil?
3) How much of a gap is there currently between the bottom of the shoulder and the surface of the head?
4) How did you @vdotmatrix set the twist drill to stop at the desired depth?

-Further info needed about the coil installation:

1) What did you use to install the coil itself?
2) Is the tang at the bottom of the coil still there? If you did break the coil what did you use to do this?

-If the tang is still there it's possible that this is preventing the shoulder bolt from bottoming on the head. Breaking off the tang is standard procedure and easy to do with the correct installation tool, that's what it's for. You should be advised that it's possible to have problems even with the installation tool, it doesn't take much to deform the thread form of the coil or interrupt the thread pitch. Those can cause the shoulder bolt to not easily go in all the way. If the tang has been removed and the bolt doesn't bottom on the head it's likely that the above mentioned deformation has occurred. Is the coil still useful? Yes, the bolt threads can possibly push the heli coil threads back into the correct form/pitch but you'll need to exercise caution here. I would (if I were you) use a torque wrench and not exceed what the factory spec calls for. If that doesn't allow the bolt shoulder to bottom on the head then you'll need to pull the coil and insert a new coil. I've installed hundreds of them but still had to extract a coil to replace with a new one now and then, it's not a rare thing to happen. If you do need to replace the coil make darn sure the tapped hole is completely/thoroughly cleaned out and ZERO chips/crud remains. Use brake cleaner and compressed air to blow EVERYTHING out that doesn't belong there. Even a tiny piece of debris can/will force the heli coil to collapse inward and impede the shoulder bolt from bottoming. Yeah, it's that important.

-As @david3921 has posted, if the tang is still attached it may be obstructing the shoulder bolt. If so, try removing the tang with the installation tool to avoid disrupting the thread pitch. This would be the simplest correction provided that the other conditions have been met. Most corrections are an IF>THEN sort of flow of action. If you decide to pull the existing coil to install a new one use your pick at the top end of the coil as I've depicted in the attached photo. Pry enough of the end into the center of the hole to grab with pliers and use and unwinding motion to extract it. I'll apologize for the exceedingly long post but this should have been a fairly simple repair. The fact that it hasn't, coupled with some of the other info posted indicates that the OP hasn't enough prior experience with this and needs a better understanding of what should be done at each step. Not trying to be overly critical or throw rocks but the results speak for themselves here. I would advise the OP to post the proposed course of action for the collective here to advise BEFORE attempting anything. The added downtime should mean little, it's the beginning of Winter and hope this isn't the primary transportation for the OP. If it is your DD then do say so.

-If @vdotmatrix decides instead to pursue either of the first two options then I'll wish you good luck.
 

nicholasbailey1993

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From your picture it looks like your Helicoil is in plenty deep. If you've broken of the tang and the bolt won't thread in deep enough I would run a tap the size of your bolt through the helicoil and down below into the remaining old hole. It looks like the bolt you took out only ripped out the top of the threads so if there's still good original threads below your helicoil they probably aren't aligned with the helicoil threads and they will bind the bolt up. Running a tap down there will clean up any misalignment an allow you to thread the bolt in.
 
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rlitman

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-Not to be an **** about it but I only agree with part of your statement. It would be best IF a rigid setup in a machine is used, re-drilling freehand is likely going to cut some material out on the sides. The flutes of a twist drill aren't round even though they appear to be. There is relief from the edge of the gullet back in a radial direction. That means you can cut with the sides of the twist drill, poorly, but they will cut. Drilling "straight down" would greatly minimize side cutting but duplicating that angle freehand stands a good chance of further material removal if that angle cannot be duplicated. The OP needs to provide more details regarding what equipment is available. The OP stated that he didn't drill deep enough, which suggests that either he didn't measure the depth needed or didn't know how to control the depth needed while drilling. This can still possibly be saved and corrected but the OP @vdotmatrix needs to check in with details and photos to go further. JMO
No offense taken. But for the first point I highlighted, even with your eyes closed, it should be relatively easy to feel when the bit is dragging on the walls of the hole and aligned correctly. And even dragging the helical flutes on the sides isn't going to remove material without some actual force. The same goes for the tip of the drill. Without down-force, you're not going to cut (any significant amount, for our purposes here).*

Helicoil taps are I think around 75% (or less) engagement. There's plenty of land left on the threads to guide the bit, and it also means that expecting 100% pointed thread crests is unrealistic. It does mean that there's less material there than before tapping, but I still wouldn't hesitate to re-drill based on that alone.

As for the point about drilling depth, yeah, THAT is a great observation. Especially seeing the followup picture of the coil beyond fully inserted. There's not much to gain by a fully-er inserted coil.

*Circling back to cutting force, the material you try this is matters a whole lot. If you're cutting in a soft and "sticky" metal where the positive rake angle can dig into the material (copper and aluminum come to mind, and acrylic is the absolute worst here), the edge may get drawn in and pull chips with just the smallest of contact, so in this case, you should be especially careful. Cast iron can vary a lot, but tends exist at the opposite end of that spectrum. Sure, if we could do everything in a milling machine, life would be great, we can't all be This Old Tony.

From your picture it looks like your Helicoil is in plenty deep. If you've broken of the tang and the bolt won't thread in deep enough I would run a tap the size of your bolt through the helicoil and down below into the remaining old hole. It looks like the bolt you took out only ripped out the top of the threads so if there's still good original threads below your helicoil they probably aren't aligned with the helicoil threads and they will bind the bolt up. Running a tap down there will clean up any misalignment an allow you to thread the bolt in.
I think you found the problem. My concern is that the bit of tang left where the end of the coil is broken off catches on the tap, this will suddenly turn into a disaster if the tap ratchets past it and gets stuck.
 

BlackJack10

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While removing a valve cover gasket on my motocycle I notice that one screw stopped coming out.
I read that the solution is a helicoil repair.
this is an M6x1 screw.
Any recommendations for this repair.
thank you.IMG_0022.jpeg
A helicoil is the right fix here. Use a quality kit, drill square, and go slow so you do not oversize the hole. Tap straight and clean the hole well before installing the insert.

For valve covers, helicoil works fine since torque is low. Install the insert just below flush and use a drop of threadlocker on the outside of the insert. After that, torque the bolt to spec and it should hold long term.
 

lbhsbz

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Before attempting inserting anything....especially on a low stress fastener like for a valve cover, you might try a stud. Often times, there are plenty of good threads underneath the messed up threads and they will catch a stud or a longer bolt and perform adequately.

Other times they won't and a repair will be necessary.
 

whateg01

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Before attempting inserting anything....especially on a low stress fastener like for a valve cover, you might try a stud. Often times, there are plenty of good threads underneath the messed up threads and they will catch a stud or a longer bolt and perform adequately.

Other times they won't and a repair will be necessary.
A little late to the game, huh?
 

RoninB4

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No offense taken.
-Good, I don't like to piss off friends I haven't met yet.
But for the first point I highlighted, even with your eyes closed, it should be relatively easy to feel when the bit is dragging on the walls of the hole and aligned correctly.
-I'm inclined to agree with you (again) but do consider the skill level of the OP. Not to be insulting but a bit brace was considered and not used only because the twist drill wouldn't fit.
And even dragging the helical flutes on the sides isn't going to remove material without some actual force.
-Yes but I have very low confidence in the OP NOT leaning a hand drill over with enough force to carve some material off the roots of the existing threads for the heli coil. I'm aware of how much could/would be removed by the twist drill, I'm just trying to urge caution so this simple repair doesn't go further sideways on the OP. Heck of a thing if he/she takes the advice from the collective and boogers it up enough to require sending the head out to repair the repair. Won't trust us again.
The same goes for the tip of the drill. Without down-force, you're not going to cut (any significant amount, for our purposes here).*
-Still in agreement with you. The OP hasn't posted any of the dimensions so we don't really know what's happened or needs to happen.
I still wouldn't hesitate to re-drill based on that alone.
-Maybe you and I wouldn't hesitate, this repair is unsupervised.
As for the point about drilling depth, yeah, THAT is a great observation. Especially seeing the followup picture of the coil beyond fully inserted. There's not much to gain by a fully-er inserted coil.
-That's one reason I asked for the OP to post the numbers BEFORE going further. I try not to post too much, nobody likes a Mr. Know-It-All and I presumed that the repair might just go ok but it hasn't.
*Circling back to cutting force, the material you try this is matters a whole lot.
-Sure does, drilling is not always the simple affair most people think it is. Ever drilled a block of copper only to have the material shrink and lock up the twist drill? Every material has distinct rules for machining. Even plastic behaves differently than ferrous steel.
If you're cutting in a soft and "sticky" metal where the positive rake angle can dig into the material (copper and aluminum come to mind, and acrylic is the absolute worst here),
-Injection molding acrylic can be a PITA too.
Sure, if we could do everything in a milling machine, life would be great, we can't all be This Old Tony.
-I can't be This Old Tony, I have enough trouble just being me. Your point is valid, that's why I asked for what equipment he has.
I think you found the problem. My concern is that the bit of tang left where the end of the coil is broken off catches on the tap, this will suddenly turn into a disaster if the tap ratchets past it and gets stuck.
-A good point to make.
 
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RoninB4

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especially on a low stress fastener like for a valve cover, you might try a stud.
-This would be good advice but most motorcycle heads that I've seen use a shoulder bolt with a rubber doughnut sealing the oversized hole in the cover itself. A stud wouldn't have the shoulder to dead stop on and nut torque to compress the rubber doughnut (without deforming it) would be a bit touchy. It would be doable but touchy. JMO. A stud would be a good suggestion for most other applications but this one.
 

whateg01

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-This would be good advice but most motorcycle heads that I've seen use a shoulder bolt with a rubber doughnut sealing the oversized hole in the cover itself. A stud wouldn't have the shoulder to dead stop on and nut torque to compress the rubber doughnut (without deforming it) would be a bit touchy. It would be doable but touchy. JMO. A stud would be a good suggestion for most other applications but this one.
Some of us could fashion a bushing to fit the gap left by the shoulder. Not sure if op can do that or not, but I would either do that or lop off the pointy end of that stud at this point
 

RoninB4

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Some of us could fashion a bushing to fit the gap left by the shoulder. Not sure if op can do that or not, but I would either do that or lop off the pointy end of that stud at this point
-Sure, some of us could and would. I don't think the OP has the equipment to do this and it would add another level of complexity/failure aspect to the repair. I agree with your point but not for the OP.

-To the OP @vdotmatrix : My apologies if it sounds like I'm throwing rocks at you, no insult was intended.
 
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vdotmatrix

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Ye, before I do more damage, i am pulling the head and taking it to the shop. I’m not a machinist or a motorcycle engine mechanic and I am sure as hell had no business trying to do this the way I did it. Thanks for your help to Everyone, happy holidays.. I found four right hand heads on ebay that may be an alternative but if the valves are leaking….what a headache.

”This Old Tony” not THE “This Old Tony“ on youtube and welding videos?
 
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vdotmatrix

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I have been moping around for a a day contemplating this debacle.
Now I can carefully, drill to the bottom and reinstall another coil. Man i don’t care, I didn’t have anything to lose. I hope i didn’t mangle the boss too much. This coil was pretty bomber i just didn't have enough room for the entire bolt to fit because my measurements were too conservative.
i am going to sleep on it and take the W for now!
IMG_0086.jpegIMG_0088.jpegIMG_0104.jpeg
 
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